New series--please consider showing us how to modify......

RE: Please continue to market to the advanced...

Not trying to butt in your conversation, Alison, but you may consider dropping to a 6 inch step to help protect your knees from future problems. Sure you may not have had any problems from the step to date, but many times one knee injury can make you more susceptible to future knee problems. Perhaps you didn't injure your knee during the high impact moves, but rather during the leg extensions by not using proper form (not saying you weren't the whole time, but maybe just one time you did something funny and it hit that spot). Also, you may consider getting extra padding over that cement (like you mentioned) and doubling it up, or getting special aerobics flooring put in.

I have had on/off knee pain in the past, and have been able to avoid a lot of knee pain (for quite some time- hopefully forever). I try very hard (and it can be hard during those last reps) to maintain proper form and not over do it. I don't do high impact everyday and don't do it on consecutive days. I also don't do step on consecutive days. Make sure that you really stretch after squat/lunge days and maintain proper form on them. Lunges may continue to bother your knee until you have completely healed (and may continue to bother for some time). You may have to hold off on them, or not go as far down. Try strength training the muscles that are around and connect to your knee (High Step has helped me) Best wishes- and really spend the extra dough on some impact-reduction mats. It really makes a difference:)
 
RE: Please continue to market to the advanced...

>I've long outgrown beginner/intermediate workouts. What I
>need is serious high-intensity cardio challenge without
>endless high jups. Complicated moves? Cool. I'll get 'em
>eventually. Don't need perfect cueing or breakdowns which ARE
>boring once you've learned the moves. Do any routine enough
>times you can do it in your sleep. But jumps that have me
>icing my knees with bags of pees for days and days after I
>attempt them? That I can do without. I don't think high
>intensity cardio has to have damaging jumps to be effective.
>But maybe I'm wrong since I've never seen an Advanced cardio
>workout without them - anywhere. Even LowMax is labelled
>Intermediate/advanced, but when I do it exactly as I'm
>supposed to it sure gets my heart beating - with no jumps.


I meant "peas" not "pees." So much for that college education...
 
RE: Please continue to market to the advanced...

Thanks Fitness Angel!

You've got a good point about avoiding knee problems in the future by keeping the step to 6". I sometimes wonder what my knees will be like when I'm elderly!

Also, I'm quite positive I didn't have proper form during the ankle weight/leg extension business. I was getting pretty fatigued at the end of the workout when she started these. I probably should have done them with no weight to begin with! It was during the leg extensions that my knee really hurt, and then it got swollen that night.

I've been looking at the impact reduction mats. Can you put them over carpet??? I'm hoping not to have to do anything permanent to the floor though.

I really appreciate everyone's advice!

Alison
 
RE: Please continue to market to the advanced...

Alison,

I read this suggestion on a fitness forum (can't remember which one), it's an excellent idea that works for me. If you have any type of cardio equipment handy (ski machine, exercise bike, treadmill, etc.)when you get to the higher impact sections that bother your knees use your cardio equipment. I use a spin bike during the higher impact moves. Cathe's energy is still there and her music and it's easy to continue the workout after the high impact.

Sandi
 
RE: Please continue to market to the advanced...

Often times Cathe shows a move that is low impact and then beefs it up later, I like this.

I don't think having Cathe show a low impact move ONE TIME and then moving on to the high impact version right away, has any effect on the overall program, in fact she does this now in some of her workouts. It would be nice if she did it more often, but if she chooses not too that is fine also.

I have been working out long enough that I can come up with my own modifications, sometimes using one that Cathe used in a different workout.:)
 
RE: Please continue to market to the advanced...

>Often times Cathe shows a move that is low impact and then
>beefs it up later, I like this.
>
>I don't think having Cathe show a low impact move ONE TIME and
>then moving on to the high impact version right away, has any
>effect on the overall program, in fact she does this now in
>some of her workouts.

I agree. And those who want to do the highest-impact move all the time can certainly start doing it while Cathe shows the lower-impact version, after they've done the workout once and know what's coming.

I don't think that Cathe should start ratcheting down the intensity of her workouts, making them intermediate, or making them doable by beginners (unless they are specifically beginner workouts), but having one or two of the background exercisers do modifications for impact/turny moves would allow for more variety (without our having to come up with alternate moves on the spot) at no more cost for production. Gay Gasper is excellent at showing several levels/variations of a move. And Gin Miller's Intense Moves shows hard-harder-hardest variations of each interval. I don't find it distracting. It just gives me a choice of who to follow on any particular day.
 
RE: Please continue to market to the advanced...

Hey, that's a great idea Sandi! I can use my elliptical! Thanks for the suggestion!

Alison
 
RE: Please continue to market to the advanced...

I am not against the modifications as you all suggested and I know that other instructors do it this way, but my point is that Cathe has never done it like this so why start now? I have been buying her workouts for about 5 years now and I have never ever had anything negative to say about it. Maybe because I understand or try to understand her principles - to make advanced workouts for the home exerciser. I don't think it was ever her objective to cater for beginners or intermediate.

The problem with trying to please everybody is that, in the end, you might end up pleasing no one. And the more you cater for peole's demands the more they seem to think they have the right to ask for more. When I first started buying Cathe workouts and joined this forum, I didn't see so many people asking for this or that. Maybe it was because back then people who buy this type of workout were expected to be at a certain level, they were knowledgeable and educated and had some experience of fitness and exercise: they didn't need to be taught, they just want to workout. I expected that if you were a beginner you buy DVDs for beginner, if you want intermediate you buy DVDs for intermediate, if you want advance you buy Cathe DVDs. I had already been doing fitness videos for a while and I was looking for a challenge, I didn't see the point of whingeing that it was too difficult or too tough because I knew it was going to be like that.

It seems you can never please some people, they want premixes so they get lots of premixes but then they want to know why there are more upper body than lower body. People don't seem to understand that Cathe is not a personal trainer, she can't help you work on specific body parts, lose weight, build muscles or take you through every step. She makes workout programmes and sells them. There has to be an element of self-learning when you use workout videos (and that applies to all videos not just Cathe), you shouldn't expect to be spoon fed every step of the way. If the premixes don't meet your requirements then makes some up that do. If some impact is too high impact then create your own from another video. I like the premixes but I also think that they take away your creativity - you can only really learn if you can create programs and make modifications for yourself.

The other reason why I am against background modifiers in Cathe's workouts, specifically, is because it's how I gage my fitness and my strength - by judging how hard the others work - I want to see them give 100% in all the workouts. I look at Cathe when I do a move but I look to Cedie, Rhonda and Lorraine (when she used to be in it) to see how heavy they lift or how fit they are. I always pay attention to how hard Cedie can work because she is of a different body type. It's very interesting and quite impressive.

I say if you are finding things difficult then you are not ready for it. Maybe try some other instructor and then come back.

I know I sound terribly terribly elitist and probably exactly the type of person Diane was talking about, but I like the format as is and would rather nothing changes.

Yen
 
RE: Please continue to market to the advanced...

I am sure part of the reason Cathe has this forum is so people can express what they want in future workouts and then she can decide what suggestions to act on.

I don't know why people making requests is considered problematic to anyone in this online community.
 
RE: Please continue to market to the advanced...

Yen--I'm with you on this and I'm not some super-buff workout wonderwoman. I'm 39, 5'4", a size 6-8 with tweaky knees,achilles tendonosis that flares up and an occasionally funky lower back. I have worked out with Cathe for almost 5 years and through my last two pregnancies. I've modified on my own to various degrees from the beginning, because as Cathe always says its my workout.

I love having her and the crew be something I can work towards, even though I'll probably never get there. I've made huge fitness gains, but just realistically, I'll probably never be able to do what they do totally and without modification.

There are lots of good intermediate instructors. I'd love Cathe to just keep doing what she does so well--workouts that cater to the advanced exerciser.

Maybe there could be a sticky thread for us to share our modifications for various moves/workouts? I know I've gotten a lot of good suggestions off the forums and I'd be glad to share some of the things I do, if asked.

Maggie:)
 
My Thoughts

I do not usually respond to threads like this, but I feel compelled to chime in here. Cathe is unique in that she is not marketing herself to the general population through retail stores or infomercials. She is being supported primarily by loyal customers who love her personality and teaching style. Because many of her customers have been working out with her for years or recently acquired most of her workouts, there is a sense of familiarity with Cathe and her style. She does have more basic workouts available now as a nice introduction to her choreography and teaching style, and I was glad to have the Target set to share with a friend who was just getting started.

I have and love Cathe’s intermediate workouts for days when I need something lighter or simpler. Some of her older workouts like Step Works also have a chapter showing modifications. This is useful and can be helpful. I have observed that Cathe stopped including this feature when she started adding more premixes. I know that she is limited in how much material she can include on each DVD. I personally would prefer to see more premixes and bonus footage. The online tutorial idea sounds like a win-win situation for everyone. I think we should be patient and see what Cathe is planning to do with this.

Impact modifiers do not bother me, but adding choreography modifiers to an advanced workout is a recipe for visual chaos. I can think of another instructor who does this. In some of her more complex workouts, she has an entire back row of modifiers doing basic moves while she and the others are whirling and twirling around. It is extremely distracting, and I do not enjoy or do most of her workouts for this reason.

I love and agree with Cathe’s previous response to this question and hope she still feels this way:

http://69.0.137.118/dc/dcboard.php?...22653&mesg_id=22653&listing_type=search#22808

Having said that, I trust Cathe and have complete confidence that she will continue to produce the stellar workouts I love. I would hate to see her fall into the trap of trying to be all things to all people and lose the heart of who she is in the process. I have no reason to think that will ever be an issue. Cathe has a long history of producing high-quality workouts. She has earned my respect. Requests like those presented in this thread do not upset me because I believe Cathe will not modify her style unless she can find a way to creatively do so without compromising the quality of the workouts she produces. I love Cathe just the way she is and hope she never changes. If she does make changes in the future, I will give her the courtesy of trying the new workouts before I rush to judgment. Cathe has not disappointed me yet!

By the way, I modify impact like crazy. Many of Cathe’s high impact moves like tuck jumps and plie jacks are a blast on a rebounder. Literally! I get the cardio intensity without hurting my joints. I am inspired by Cathe and her crew and all their advances moves. I would much rather watch them and modify to suit my needs than return to more intermediate workouts. Enough procrastinating! It is time to start packing for the Road Trip! :7

Blessings,
Heather B.

“So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God” (1 Corinthians 10:31 NIV).
 
RE: My Thoughts

Well said Heather and Cathe's response in that thread explained a lot. I won't quit buying her workouts either and on low energy days I just jump a little less of less higher or come up with another move. I hope that Cathe keeps producing the kick butt advanced workouts that I've grown to expect from her and so far she has not disappointed! I will say that the advanced instructor who does have modifiers in the background doesn't bother me now that I've gotten used to it. I'm so looking forward to this latest series from Cathe...woo hoo!!!
Angela:7
P.S. Hi Alison! If Cathe chooses not to do what you suggested or until she does include it, maybe we can get a sticky thread going where modifications are posted to help you and others out!:) Your request was so nicely put and I hope you get a response from Cathe soon!
 
RE: My Thoughts

I also agree with Heather, and I appreciate Cathe's previous response to this question. I know when I purchase a Cathe DVD it is advanced. I do what I can and hope to improve my level of fitness.

Cathe, thank you for targeting the advanced market; I look forward to your new DVDs, modifiers or not!


Cathy
 
RE: Please continue to market to the advanced...

>I don't know why people making requests is considered
>problematic to anyone in this online community.

It's not a problem for us at all - I have no problems with people making suggestions whatsover. I think suggestions are great if they have been thought through and well presented. However, I can imagine that too many, and badly formulated ones could (not directed at you at all Alison) be problematic for her - it could interfere with her creative thought process.

Try to put yourself in her place as a fitness instructor trying to come up with new workouts videos. I would imagine that she has a set of criterias that she works with when formulating new workouts. For example:

Target audience - beginner, intermediate or advanced
Cost
Space issue
Equipment - relates to cost
Choreography
Length of workout
Type of workout - step, kickbox, weight etc.
Training
Time to film, produce ready for release
etc. etc. etc.

Of course, I don't profess to know what she does exactly, but I would be astonished if she can produce workouts of such quality as she has done in the past without taking these factors into consideration. Imagine then if you are also taking into consideration other people's requests the list will just go on and on and on. It would be extremely difficult to stick to your principles if you have so many people to please: swamped under so many requests it would be hard to have the 'freedom' to do what you want. I think the end result would be a product that meets people's demands rather something that is her own creation, and this is what I am not in favour of. I like the workout to have her signature on it, a product of her imagination if you will. Every instructor has their own style like Christy Taylor and Seasun Zeiger.

While the suggestions are great and they do get incorporated, I think people should be realistic and spend more time thinking it through before they submit it. For instance, this issue with the impact causing knee problems, was it really the high intenisity that caused the knee problems or the fact that the person is inexperience or some physical injury? If the problem is that you are inexperience to stepping then your knees will be sore for a while, gradual training over time will strengthen your legs and this problem will go away (fyi, I had this problem when I started stepping and running - I couldn't walk down the steps for weeks!) If it is due to injury then it's likely that stepping or any high impact activity will be out of the question, in which case you need to find alternative like using an eliptical trainer.

What she started doing all those years was pioneering, she set out her business plan and stuck with it. The result has been a dramatic change in the fitness videos market - the advanced market has boomed and there are more and more instructors competing with her business. Customers are becoming more knowledgeable and savvy, they can't be fobbed off with wishy washy workouts by 'pretty looking instructors'.

I would like her to continue to set the standard and be the pioneer that she is amd she can only do that if she has the freedom to do what she wants.

Yen
 
RE: My Thoughts

RE: The modifiers, I personally like the way she has handled this in her past videos, per my previous posts.


Cathe provides a separate forum and invites feedback on what we will like. I don't think we need to police what we can ask and what we can't. Cathe knows what she needs to take into consideration when she decides, but it is up to her, not us.

I just don't think it is right for anyone other than Cathe to tell people what they should and should not ask for.

I will not change my mind on this issue.

:)
 
RE: My Thoughts

Hi everyone!

Do you ever feel like you wish you could just erase what you said, or swallow it back?!

I've been reading all theses great posts, and I really applaud everyone for keeping it more tame than the thread that Heather took Cathe's original response from! There was a bit more negativity in that thread!

Anyways, after all of this, in some ways, I wish I wouldn't have said anything (especially without trying to solve my problem myself!). But in a way, I'm glad I did ask, because I don't think I would've come up with such great suggestions like you guys have posted!

I really like the idea of jumping on the treadmill, elliptical, whatever if there's something I just can't do.
I also like the idea of the puzzle mats.
And the rebounder someone suggested!
And asking to get a sticky thread for modification questions. (By the way, how do we go about doing that??)

Yen, I appreciate what you have to say, about thinking through a question before you ask Cathe. I mean honestly, I could've looked up modifications on this forum and would've found Cathe's original response to this same question 4 years ago!

Also, I think alot of you are right when you say that since Cathe makes advanced workouts, those of us who aren't as advanced should consider different workouts if we really can't/won't adapt. When I think about it, it wouldn't have been that hard to figure out a modification on my own. I should've just asked all of you in the first place! I love that Cathe's videos are always going to be a challenge, and I would be disappointed if she changed much at all! (Wow, talk about coming full circle!)

Anyways, thanks everyone! You guys are all such a blessing and a wonderful online community! Thanks for being considerate towards me!

Alison

PS...Can we stop talking about this now? :D (I say that because I feel bad for opening up such a can of worms!;(
 
RE: My Thoughts

Alison,

I am sorry but to keep on this thread but I wanted to say don't feel bad. I would hate to think that I caused you to feel this way. I was not targeting you in particular, I was just using your situation as an example as that was what started this topic. You weren't to know any better and it's better to ask than to stay ignorant.

It's obviously a topic that raises a lot of discussion and I have no doubt it will come up again. I'm quite intrigue to see what Cathe would do, would she cave and change her workout format to please her customers or stick by the principles with which she started this business? Personally, I hope she sticks to her principles.

Here's something else for you to ponder and maybe you can understand it too. Think of a Cathe workout like it was Mount Everest, you'd never go to Mount Everest and say 'Dear Lady, do you think you could make yourself smaller? Maybe clear up the heavy snow and strong winds at the top? And how about some supply of oxygen while you're at it? It would be easier for me to climb to the top.' It doesn't work like that, Mount Everest was, is and as she always will be. People take the challenge because they think that it's physically and mentally impossible, only the toughest would dare to take her on. It's a testament to your determination, hardwork and perserverance that you can climb to the top. And when you are there, you'll look back and down you'll see how far you've climbed and you will feel great about yourself.

That's why I've always accepted her workouts as is and never asked her to change anything. I've thought about running a marathon in the past and when I do the workout, it makes me feel like I could do it.

Let me know how you are progressing and keep asking questions if you need help with anything.


Yen
 
RE: My Thoughts

Hi Yen,

No, it wasn't you that made me feel bad, just I guess I didn't know what I was getting into!

Anyways, I like your Mount Everest analogy--that's a really positive attitude to have towards Cathe's workouts!

Will my knees ever not hurt though, when I do this high impact stuff? I guess I would never have asked her to modify if I thought my knees would eventually adapt. My father (a chiropractor, but also somewhat...discouraging of his precious daughter possibly hurting herself) has basically told me my knees will always be a problem and I should just stick to the elliptical and swimming and such. I was really disappointed by that. But he's been known to not want me to do ANYTHING difficult because I might get hurt! So, I was hoping he would be wrong....

I totally appreciate everything that's been said on this thread and I don't really want Cathe to change much, if at all...

I hope my knees change though!

Thanks for all your input!

Alison
 
RE: My Thoughts

>Will my knees ever not hurt though, when I do this high impact
>stuff?

Alas, no. In my experience the knees will always be an issue. I have knee pain in my right now, I must have over stretched or something and pulled a tendon and now I can't kneel without it hurting when I get up. I thought if I leave it alone it would heal but it doesn't seem to be working. I don't have much problems doing stepping or hi/lo though but I'm sure it doesn't help. I think I might have to seee a sports physio or doctor, who will just tell me to lay off the exercise. Very unlikely.

I could never do and have never done stepping every day, 3 is my maximum. Have you tried the kickboxing workouts? They do have some high impact, but they also have combos that are low and mostly upper body. You could try combining the kickbox with the eliptical at the end for maximum burn. Kick, Punch and Crunch, KickMax and Cardio Kicks. The low impact workouts are also excellent and workouts by other instructors tend to be less intense than Cathe's so you could try those. I have Christy Taylor and Seasun Zeiger but their choreography is more complex than Cathe's. Cathe's is very much power, power, power.

Have you ever use an eliptical? If not, then see if you can get a week's pass at a gym and try out the eliptical, the treadmill (power walking) and the bike (spin class) and decide which one you like best before you buy. They are quite expensive so you want to be sure that you will use it.

You know it's not the end of the world if you can't do step, there are so many alternatives. I think I need an eliptical myself, but I don't have enough room in the house to keep it.

Let me know how you get on.

Yen
 
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