Michael Vick and Eagles???

[Tamrahan]

You people are reading more into that post than what was even written.
Nowhere does it say I'm advocating or making excuses for drunk driving.

I take offense that people are so tolerant of animal abuse. A few years in jail does not erase the harm that michael Vick did. Does not come even close.

 

[Beavs]

You people are reading more into that post than what was even written.
Nowhere does it say I'm advocating or making excuses for drunk driving.

You are exactly correct. However, you statement implies that victim of drunk drivers somehow made a choice of being at the wrong place at the wrong time. You imply that the bulk of drunk driving "accidents" happen only when bars close. I don't have the statistics in front of me but I do know that a good number of injuries and fatalities occur at other times, not necessarily when the bars happen to close (not all drunks do their drinking at bars these days). I suspect you are well aware of this but your earlier statement indicates otherwise. The responsibility for a drunk driving accidents rests solely with the drunk driver, not the innocent person(s) he/she hits.

 

[Tamrahan]

You are exactly correct. However, you statement implies that victim of drunk drivers somehow made a choice of being at the wrong place at the wrong time. You imply that the bulk of drunk driving "accidents" happen only when bars close. I don't have the statistics in front of me but I do know that a good number of injuries and fatalities occur at other times, not necessarily when the bars happen to close (not all drunks do their drinking at bars these days). I suspect you are well aware of this but your earlier statement indicates otherwise. The responsibility for a drunk driving accidents rests solely with the drunk driver, not the innocent person(s) he/she hits.

I'm not implying any such thing.
I don't have statistics in front of me either but common sense would tell me more people are out drinking after 6PM than at 11AM. Is this written in stone? NO. People can tie one on at lunch, people can wake up in the morning and start drinking right off the bat-run out and get more. I KNOW THAT.

I'm sorry to all that have lost loved ones to drunk drivers. I was not trying to offend anyone. I was not saying it is the victims fault and I'm not saying too bad so sad.

You are reading what YOU want to read in my post not what I wrote. I don't know what I've done to you Beavs but this is not the first time you have attacked.

We have nothing else to say to each other.
Please do not harass me anymore.

 

[Beavs]

I am in no way intending to harass you but questioning a statement you made that not only myself but others took exception as well. I was hoping you'd be understanding to that but clearly you are not. If you honestly believe that somehow victims could "choose" not to be involved in accident then quite frankly, I have nothing to say to you either.

 

[Tamrahan]

If you honestly believe that somehow victims could "choose" not to be involved in accident then quite frankly, I have nothing to say to you either.

There ya go again. Please point out to where I wrote people can choose not to be involved in an accident.

I did say I have a better chance of getting out of the way of an oncoming car. An an innocent animal has no choices, they are completely at our mercy.

I ride my bike around the highways surrounding our town early in the mornings-my Dh refuses to go with me saying it's too dangerous. He's probably right but I don't want to load up my bike drive somewhere to ride my bike. So I take what precautions I can by putting lights on my bike and put a rearview mirror on and hope I can get out of the way of cars. After being on the planet for 46 years I must be doing something right or am lucky.

What can an animal do for himself to lesson the chances that he'll get his tail set on fire by malicious kids or how to keep himself from getting stoned to death by children who break into a zoo? How does he lesson the chances of getting sold or being born into a litter owned by a football playing dog fighting ring leader?

 

[coloradomama]

That's not what I meant and I think you know that.


Pete Rose's career was over just for gambling.

Ray Lewis and Michael Vick should not be allowed back in thier sport or to profit from the sport ie sports commentator etc. Just like Pete Rose.
That's how I feel about it.

I do know that's not what you meant. I said what I said to emphasize how your wording sounded. No one is that cold hearted. When you cannot hear the tone of the voice, things can be misunderstood. And sometimes what makes perfect sense to us does not make sense to others. I agree with you that the athletes should not be allowed back...the fact of the matter is, they are. I choose to be hopeful that he will make the best of his second chance.

Okay, back to Ellie's original comment...yeah, I know the Philly people are crazy for their teams! I was living in Philly years ago and I think the Phillies won a game that put them in the world series. I was living on south Broad Street at the time and WOW! People were running down the middle of the street, screaming, etc, all night long!

 

[leniegirl]

Vick's crime was much more involved than just animal abuse. He ran a six-year-long operation of an interstate dog fighting ring wth some portions involving drugs and gambling. Gruesome details involving abuse, torture and execution of under-performing dogs.

 

[coloradomama]

That's horrible...I can't imagine how someone could do that.

 

[netsnotes16]

Read about and heard about on Sports talk. I don't think all that will happen. It is interesting how Mike will fit in Philly's system. There was also talk about Mike goin' to Cinncinnati or perhaps Carolina Panthers. I believe a East Coast Sytem similiar to VT's would work for him.

I am not a big Mike fan nor a VT fan for that matter. But it is time to move on so he can get out 4 million out of debt. There is too many other things to worry about like my son tryouts for football and if Clemson will have a good season this year with Dabo Swinney.

 

[poohpeggy]

This is a sad day indeed. Vick hasn't paid his dues. He got a little slap..compared to the horrible pain these animals had to endure. Can you imagine how cute the dogs must have been as puppies..I am sick to my stomach thinking about it and am getting teary eyed. This is where the good ole USA's flaws show. I hope a petition surfaces to show outrage. Peggy

 

[siafelice]

I am simply appalled that Michael Vick is permitted to return to the NFL. And Philadelphia, shame on you! That certainly puts a black mark on your reputation according to many people I have discussed this with.

Vick chose to torture and maime many poor defenseless animals. He watched it happen and he chose to participate. In my book, a person who does that is a psychopath. He's a great "actor", but I don't believe he truly regrets his actions. What a great example he set for young, impressionable children who look up to and idolize sports stars!

 

[jnka825]

the message

What I find so disturbing is the message this sends to our youth. I am a teacher and I have had "character education" shoved down my throat at work. We have to "teach" morality and ethics on top of our mandated curriculum, which I don't have a problem with. However, when our own society rewards "athletic criminals" (and heartless ones at that, sorry if you torment animals that is what you are to me) with "second chances" to make millions, what message does that send? You don't have to be of good character to be a part of a professional sports team and make millions.

Another thought. . . there isn't another football player out there that can play as good as this disgusting excuse for a human being? Let's remember, it wasn't as if he was hard on his luck and needed to do this to make money for survival, he made plenty of money playing ball (not that it would make it okay). so, why did he do it? IMHO, he enjoyed it. It must have been entertainment to him.

Kristin

 

[kathryn]

Vick hasn't paid his dues. He got a little slap..compared to the horrible pain these animals had to endure.

ITA

And going back to 'second chances': I believe in giving people second chances, WHEN THEY EARN THEM. Vick would earn his by showing true remorse over his actions, and maybe working to help dogs in the same situation his were in. Doing public service annoncements. Something. I think crimes against living beings (human or animal) are different from crimes against property. If he'd stolen cars or run off with somebody's money, I might feel differently about him.

 

[Afreet]

This is a sad day indeed. Vick hasn't paid his dues. He got a little slap..compared to the horrible pain these animals had to endure. Can you imagine how cute the dogs must have been as puppies..I am sick to my stomach thinking about it and am getting teary eyed. This is where the good ole USA's flaws show. I hope a petition surfaces to show outrage. Peggy

Well, here's one for starters: at ISAR (International Society for Animal Rights).

I was a little conflicted when I first heard of this petition. I definitely felt that Vick deserved the opportunity to prove that he was making serious efforts to redress the wrongs he committed - but upon his release from prison, his focus has seemed to be on getting back into the NFL, and if he had to jump through some hoops (with PETA and HSUS, mostly), fine. The more I've read and thought about it...the more I get mad(der).

I also read about the drunk-driving NFL player who got the wrist slap and got back into the NFL. That was also a bad decision - but it has nothing to do with THIS series of bad decisions. I don't think animal lives are more precious than human ones - I just think it's sad that the NFL is willing to bend over backwards to accommodate killers of any kind and reward them with millions of dollars.

I'd boycott the NFL, but alas - I've been on a lifelong "boycott" (football makes me tired). I'll definitely be writing to NFL sponsors, however...

 

[EVVCT]

I hope Michael Vic never works again. What he did was heinous! I hope he is a total flop in Philly!I hope they boo him every time he walks on the field! Animal abuse is not acceptable to me!
Ellen

 

[nightowl81]

ITA

And going back to 'second chances': I believe in giving people second chances, WHEN THEY EARN THEM. Vick would earn his by showing true remorse over his actions, and maybe working to help dogs in the same situation his were in. Doing public service annoncements. Something. I think crimes against living beings (human or animal) are different from crimes against property. If he'd stolen cars or run off with somebody's money, I might feel differently about him.

I agree here... he doesn't seem sorry at all and is doing nothing to show he is sorry. It isn't just feeling bad for the little doggies, this is an adult who did some sick things to these dogs. I think it takes more than a short jail time to deserve a second chance after what he did.

As another poster said it was alot more than animal abuse, a bunch of dogs over those years were electrocuted, sodomized, drowned, hung and beat if they were under performing or when they couldn't fight anymore... can anyone really think a small time in jail can fix that mind set of someone who could keep hurting dogs like that and not feel any remorse for what they were doing? It takes a very sick person to do that to a living animal just for entertainment. I haven't read if he received any therapy while in jail to understand what he did was wrong and to make sure he doesn't do it again.

 

[Afreet]

Well, to be completely fair, Mr. Vick has taken some steps with the Humane Society of the United States. I have doubts about his sincerity. Evidently the Eagles don't care whether he's sincere or not.

Evidently he also wanted to appear in anti-dogfighting ads created by PETA, but after they thought about it, PETA decided NOT to do that. (read about that here). I don't often agree with PETA, but this:

PETA withdrew its offer to do a TV spot with Michael Vick last winter when a U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) report on Vick's dogfighting activities revealed that he enjoyed placing family pets in the ring with fighting pit bulls and that he laughed as dogs ripped each other apart.

...well, I guess I wouldn't want to do commercials with him, either.

 

[netsnotes16]

Coach Dungy has supported him through out this whole entire ordeal. I have read Coach Dungy's book.

I was listening to Dan Patrick's show yesterday and a woman mentioned athletes as role models. Dan Patrick's response was similiar to this, "parents are children's role models not athletes, etc we need to become role models and not leave it up to others."

I believe several things....once he starts playin' all will be forgiven, in that we have short historical memories. Two, Marcus Vick has just as much baggage or more than Michael (that was mentioned on Sports Talk). And finally if we are this passionate about dogs than women being abused, it is time to re-evalulate. I mention that because we discussing at my church group about 'animal testing' would you be willing to be 'tested?' This person had a dog and she said no.

To sum it up, Vick has support of Dungy, when Vick helps PHL to win, and when we can honestly say, that women are more abused every day in this country, 1 out of every 4, then can I justify an arguement. I think it is time to get passed Vick, let him play and get on with his life.....

 

[poohpeggy]

Thank You AFREET..I signed and emailed everyone I know. I appreciate you posting the info!
Peggy

 

[kathryn]

And finally if we are this passionate about dogs than women being abused, it is time to re-evalulate. I mention that because we discussing at my church group about 'animal testing' would you be willing to be 'tested?' This person had a dog and she said no.

Your posts seem to suggest that if one is against animal cruelty, they aren't also against cruelty to humans. Or that it's a choice: you either fight against cruelty to humans, OR you fight against cruelty to animals. And that those of us who are "passionate" about dog abuse don't care about abuse to women.

I frankly find that rather insulting.

As for animal testing: in many fields (such as cosmetics) there are non-animal AND non-human alternatives to testing on animals. Again, it's not an "us or them" situation.

To sum it up, Vick has support of Dungy, when Vick helps PHL to win, and when we can honestly say, that women are more abused every day in this country, 1 out of every 4, then can I justify an arguement.

Huh?