Merry CHRISTmas . . ! WARNING: some might be offended by this.

[DEEDEE2]

Saying "Merry Christmas" to someone is not the same as saying "Happy Thanksgiving". In a way, when someone looks me in the eye and says "Merry Christmas", they might as well be saying "I do not recognize your history or your heritage or that America is a country where people of all kinds can live together in mutual respect".

.

To me Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy Kwanzaa and so on is like someone saying to me, "This is the time of year that I celebrate something very dear to me, and I would like to share it with you. You are welcome to join me if you like." And I think it is wonderful! I'm insulted by the fact that people aren't allowed to say something as wonderful as Merry Christmas, but the freedom of speech allows you to call people any kind of derogatory name one see fit.

 

[TeTe]

And I think it is wonderful! I'm insulted by the fact that people aren't allowed to say something as wonderful as Merry Christmas, but the freedom of speech allows you to call people any kind of derogatory name one see fit.

When did they outlaw people saying Merry Christmas? Geez, I miss reading the newspaper one day and all hell has broken loose!

 

[spyrosmom]

I was going to stay out of this, but I have to chime in. Nancy324 did a great job of being respectful yet showing her point of view, so I'm gonna try to be nice here and not offend anyone.

I'm an atheist, as is my husband, and our son is being raised that way. However, if he wants to find religion when he grows older, that is fine by me. Both DH and I were raised in Catholic families who celebrate Christmas. We celebrate Christmas in our house, but not as the birth of Jesus, but more as a family togetherness holiday. So, even though I am not religious by any stretch of the imagination, I tell people to have a Merry Christmas, and I don't mind that people tell me that, either. I'm not big on being told Happy Holidays, but I can see where others don't mind it, as it is more inclusive. To me it is Christmas season, but that's how I was raised. I could see to many others how it could be Hanukkah, Kwannza, whatever season. To me, Happy Holidays covers from Thanksgiving to New Years, where Merry Christmas covers a few days or a week. I think people just say whichever they were brought up, whatever is natural to them, and truly don't mean to offend anyone, at least that is the case to me.

Honestly, most of the time, I don't say it strangers b/c who knows what my tick someone off these days, and they decide to go crazy. Unless I know someone, I don't say anything until they say it first. I someone tells me Merry Christmas, I'll tell them the same back. If someone tells me Happy Holidays, I'll normally tell them Merry Christmas back, if its close to Christmas, or if its not, I'll tell them Happy Holidays. However, if someone tells me "Merry Christmas, god bless you" I'll tell them "Merry Christmas and no, thank you."

That being said, and although I don't religiously agree with what Tami posted, it is a very nice way of putting things, and the spirit/sentiment is right.

See, I said that nicely. Go me

Nan

 

[ldy_solana]

To me Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy Kwanzaa and so on is like someone saying to me, "This is the time of year that I celebrate something very dear to me, and I would like to share it with you. You are welcome to join me if you like." And I think it is wonderful! I'm insulted by the fact that people aren't allowed to say something as wonderful as Merry Christmas, but the freedom of speech allows you to call people any kind of derogatory name one see fit.

great point.

aside from wearing a sign how is anybody suppose to know. i have never had anybody get mad at me for saying merry christmas. they might mention their holiday they celebrate i will say sorry wasn't aware in that case happy_______. i don't think anybody means to offend anybody they just want to share joy. at parade time most holidays get represented and nobody but a handful of whiny grumps might complain but they are so in the minority on that and are usually meant with complaints on them not being open minded. believe it or not even though this city,politically, will be torn we don't get up in arms over "merry christmas" and i certainly don't get offended if somebody said any different to me. i am more offended when ppl make it seem like i should be guilty for saying merry christmas. i will say whatever it is as long as i am positive towards you, no reason to make ppl feel guilty. i am not offended by happy holidays either its up to the person. we all just need to take a chill and take the words at face value but find the intent behind somebody trying to connect with you in the first place. to share joy and warm feelings despite what holiday you celebrate.

JMO though
kassia



kassia

 

[Gayle]

Nancy - Great post!

I work with and deal a lot of different people, so unless I know someone, I usually use the "Have a great holiday"/"Happy Holidays" line, which to me encompasses: "Hey, man, I don't know you, you don't know me, but I hope the time between Thanksgiving and New Year's is a good one for you and your family. Peace out!"

As long as people are kind to each other, who really cares?

 

[DEEDEE2]

When did they outlaw people saying Merry Christmas? Geez, I miss reading the newspaper one day and all hell has broken loose!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/23/florida-woman-claims-she_n_153198.html

Don't believe I said it was against the law. Just not considered PC which I just can't hang with. And yes it does amaze me that people get so bent out of shape over something as simple as a well intended greeting. How long before people start getting offended by "Have a nice day." I mean has anyone every used "Merry Christams" as way of intentionally wishing ill will on someone?

I can just see it now, "DeeDee I can't stand you! MERRY CHRISTAMS!!!"
Yeah, whatever.

 

[nancy324]

To me Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy Kwanzaa and so on is like someone saying to me, "This is the time of year that I celebrate something very dear to me, and I would like to share it with you. You are welcome to join me if you like." And I think it is wonderful!

I've heard this before, and have never understood it. According to that logic, it would make perfect sense to wish people "Happy Birthday" on your birthday. It makes no sense, is egocentric, and does nothing for the person you're saying it to. Saying "Merry Christmas" to someone who doesn't celebrate it is more than just nonsensical, it can actually be hurtful.

 

[TeTe]

Oh, I see. When you said "people aren't allowed to say something as wonderful as Merry Christmas, but the freedom of speech allows you to call people any kind of derogatory name one see fit," well, it just came across like that.

Sounds like there might be more to this story, but, then again, her First Amendment rights are still protected--she's wasn't arrested for saying it. As a private employer, they can tell her not to say it (would you be this upset if someone insisted on saying "Happy Ramadan" on the outgoing greeting because they claimed to be a "devout Muslim?"). We can't have it both ways; defending one religion but not the other.

And, First Amendment or not, I'll bet if she'd called clients "any derogatory name" she saw fit, she would have gotten fired for that, too. Unless her employee manual and/or boss told her that it was okay.

ETA: Good point, Miss Nancy!

 

[nancy324]

Nancy - Great post!

I work with and deal a lot of different people, so unless I know someone, I usually use the "Have a great holiday"/"Happy Holidays" line, which to me encompasses: "Hey, man, I don't know you, you don't know me, but I hope the time between Thanksgiving and New Year's is a good one for you and your family. Peace out!"

As long as people are kind to each other, who really cares?

Gayle, you do! You are thoughtful, respectful, and yes, caring.

 

[DEEDEE2]

I've heard this before, and have never understood it. According to that logic, it would make perfect sense to wish people "Happy Birthday" on your birthday.

I totally get what you are saying here, and if December 25th was my own personal holiday, I wouldn't wish anyone a merry Christmas.

It makes no sense, is egocentric, and does nothing for the person you're saying it to. Saying "Merry Christmas" to someone who doesn't celebrate it is more than just nonsensical, it can actually be hurtful.

I understand some folks are more easily hurt than others, I have become pretty hard to offend. So we simply see this differently. I had a young teen dressed in all his 'gangsta' garb walk by me in the mall and say, "What up my n____r!". I was like, "Say what?" then I just cracked up. Sad part, this kid had an application for work from the store we were infront of. Good luck junior. Point is, for me, life is too short to spend upset by someone's good intention. And a holiday greeting, of any kind, for any religion is usually meant to be kind.

 

[DEEDEE2]

(would you be this upset if someone insisted on saying "Happy Ramadan" on the outgoing greeting because they claimed to be a "devout Muslim?").
ETA: Good point, Miss Nancy!

No, why should it?

 

[TeTe]

No, why should it?

You're right. I misunderstood your arguments. I looked back over them, and i see that you aren't arguing against saying Happy Holidays which seems to be so offensive to some others. (I'm not so sure the law firm defending that woman who was fired would feel the same way, but, who knows. I've learned my lesson about assuming!)

I wouldn't condone any religious greeting, though. If it were my place of business, I'd tell people to leave their religion and politics at home.

 

[sparrow13]

I think the brouhaha over saying Merry Christmas is somewhat ridiculous. But then I also thought it was ridiculous when several Christian friends were in a panic over the USPS "Happy Eid" stamp, saying that it was meant to usurp Xmas. When I told them that Eids fluctuate and don't always coincide with Xmas, and that the stamp had actually been around for several years, they all of a sudden had nothing to say.

I would never be offended if someone thought enough to me to wish me happy anything, even if I weren't of that faith. I take friendly wishes as a good thing, regardless of specifics: people want me to have a nice day/holiday/celebration, yay! When I lived in NYC I often heard "Shabbat shalom" from people who thought I was Jewish (I have that sort of Middle Eastern-y ethnic look to me that can be Italian, Jewish or Arab, I've been told). I always just accepted the happy sentiment and said "Shabbat shalom!" back.

I also try to be cognizant of the fact that there are holidays other than Christmas. I tell my Muslim friends "Ramadan Mubarak!" and my Jewish friends "Happy Hanukkah!" I know some Pagans and wish them "Blessed Yule!" In fact from December 1 on I'm pretty much doing nothing but spewing glad holiday tidings to every GD person I meet along the way and frankly I'm really (*&**( sick of it. From now on it's "how ya doin'" and THAT'S IT. Screw everyone and the freakin' holiday they rode in on. Dang.

KIDDING.

 

[TeTe]

In fact from December 1 on I'm pretty much doing nothing but spewing glad holiday tidings to every GD person I meet along the way and frankly I'm really (*&**( sick of it. From now on it's "how ya doin'" and THAT'S IT. Screw everyone and the freakin' holiday they rode in on. Dang.

Now, THAT's the spirit!!!

 

[DEEDEE2]

You're right. I misunderstood your arguments. I looked back over them, and i see that you aren't arguing against saying Happy Holidays which seems to be so offensive to some others. (I'm not so sure the law firm defending that woman who was fired would feel the same way, but, who knows. I've learned my lesson about assuming!)

I wouldn't condone any religious greeting, though. If it were my place of business, I'd tell people to leave their religion and politics at home.

You know, one thing about me is I am forever curious. If someone told me "Happy whatever" and I didn't know anything about that holiday/celebration. I would ask them to explain it to me. What is it based one? How did it come to be? How do you celebrate it? Most importantly, what does it mean to you? I love and respect other cultures as well as my own so...I'm open to learning new things. If someone said "Happy (fill in the blank) and it wasn't something I personally celebrate, I would still feel greatful that they included me for that one moment...but that is just me.

 

[Lastchance09]

I've heard this before, and have never understood it. According to that logic, it would make perfect sense to wish people "Happy Birthday" on your birthday. It makes no sense, is egocentric, and does nothing for the person you're saying it to. Saying "Merry Christmas" to someone who doesn't celebrate it is more than just nonsensical, it can actually be hurtful.

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[Lastchance09]

Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ - period. It is a religious holiday. Religion is a very personal thing. There are gagillions of people on this planet who do not recognize Jesus as their savior or they don't believe in his existence at all. What do I look like going up to perfect strangers who may not believe in Jesus and saying Merry Christmas? How do you know what they believe? You don't so you say Happy Holidays. It's not about censoring YOU, it's about recognizing and respecting the diversity of our world.

I don't understand what this nah nahni boo boo post is all about. There are no laws in place that prevent you from saying Merry Christmas. Cards that say Merry Christmas haven't been banned. Most people are polite and so they won't go nuts if you say Merry Christmas, even if it makes them feel uncomfortable or don't follow your religion. Not exactly taboo people.

Whatever God(s) or Spirits that are out there, I am sure they are shaking his/her, their heads at the stuff us earthly creatures get riled up over.

 

[ldy_solana]

its not about a "law" about saying it. its this mob mentality that we can't say it b/c we are oppressing or being closed minded. that is not fair either. if ppl can look past the two words and find the intent, the intent to share joy the intent to connect then maybe not so many will be offended. and ppl obviously do get angry over the words or this discussion would have not even continued, maybe this whole thread would have never been started if ppl just except the intent share one moment of connection no matter what words they used, as long as it was positive and sincere.

as i have said over and over like a record, happy holidays shouldn't be offensive either b/c ppl were using that way before my great grandparents put their toes on american soil 90 years ago. so say whatever you have to say just keep it positive. if ppl are going to get mad or offended that shouldn't be anybody's problem but theirs b/c they chose not to come from a place of understanding your intent. if somebody says happy hanukkah to me hey right back at ya, i am not going to sit there and think this person offended me. both sides just need to come from understanding,every holiday this season seems to be rooted in religion so really this time of year when all of them boil down to love we are going to fight over two words. doesn't make sense either way around.

if you ask me i am more offended i went tricking or treating at the mall and had to look at christmas trees. its been made into commercial buy buy buy holiday instead of taking time to make things and share joy and celebrate a changing moment in history. so anybody celebrating another holiday be thankful your beliefs haven't been commercialized where the initial intent of your holiday is lost amongst this nation. but that is another argument. i can't seem to connect to family unless i have a shiny wrapped box in my hands and that my friend demeans any holiday when you make about what i get instead of wow happy to see you again!!

kassia

 

[Liann]

So, I respectfully disagree with Go Fish. And, while I appreciate Tami's post, I want to remind her that some people in this country believe that Saturday is the day family members should spend together, away from work, and that some people don't believe in missionaries and prostelitizing.

Did I misread Tami's post? I took it as a call to Christians to chill out about the whole Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays thing - that God could take care of himself. I thought it was directing Christians to instead spend their time doing more important things like helping a missionary etc... I don't believe it was directed towards non-believers in any way telling them what they should do. I actually saw it as backing up what you were saying?

 

[LauraMax]

Did I misread Tami's post? I took it as a call to Christians to chill out about the whole Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays thing - that God could take care of himself. I thought it was directing Christians to instead spend their time doing more important things like helping a missionary etc... I don't believe it was directed towards non-believers in any way telling them what they should do. I actually saw it as backing up what you were saying?

That's the way I read it. To be more literal, I read it as "quit trying to force your religion on people, the best way to persuade them is with actions, not words."

I personally don't see Xmas as a religious holiday. My dad is Jewish, my mom is Christian, neither of them are practicing, so we've always kind of learned about & celebrated both Hanukah & Xmas.

I think Xmas is one of the most American holidays in the world. Today's Xmas traditions evolved out of 19th c. American romanticism. The trees (originally German but not really decorated & dressed up until Americans got their hands on it), St. Nicholas (AKA Santa), & giving & receiving gifts. I can't remember ever seeing Jesus on a crucifix in Macy's, but there sure are lots o' trees & Santas.

Or, more simplistically, Xmas has the same bizarre, parodoxical characteristics as the American people: amazingly generous & amazingly greedy, all at the same time.