Is this a viable theory?

Just FYI -

You do not burn fat "in your muscles." First, there is no fat in your muscles. Second, lean body mass burns CALORIES (energy) more efficiently (the theory goes) because muscle mass is more dense and burns calories more efficiently. You cannot "burn" fat...you simply shrink the fat cells that you have on your frame.

Research is still not in on the lean muscle mass theories. Studies have been contradicitng each other regarding the "muscle burns more calories" thinking. No expert to date has been able to pin point the answer. There are many claims, but none have been totally supported from either side of the issue.

Really, it is what works for each particular person. The bonuses for weight lifting (which have been supported by research) are increased bone mass, protection of ligaments and joints, slimming appearance, greater oxygen comsumption of the muscles. We all know that Cathe makes us look good and feel good, so keep doing her tapes!!

jenni
 
This is an interesting thread! I think Carol is right you have to do what's best for your body and that may be to change nothing at all. Increasing cardio, particularly if you are a regular exerciser, increases your risk of overuse injuries whether you cut back on strength training or not. The pursuit of the body beautiful can be a dangerous game when you find yourself wanting a better body at the expense of your healthy body.

I have nine sisters and the one who has the body we all envy is the least healthy as she is addicted to pain killers and she smokes like a chimney!

The instructor may have gotten leaner but less healthy in the long run. I think cardio, strength and flexibility are equally important as well as a clean, healthy diet that allows for indulgences and contains a variety of foods that nurture your body and please your soul!
Chicks's Rule! http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/chicken.gif Bobbi
 
Thanks Jenni. I'm an RN, and I know there is no fat in our muscles that we "burn", but there are fat deposits in there, as well as in other places in our bodies. It's actually the mitochondria that do the converting of fat byproducts into energy, but I didn't word my answer very well. I knew what I meant to say about burning calories, but you said it better. :) Sometimes the thoughts get lost between my brain and my typing fingers.

Carol
 
Cbelle..
Just FYI....your instructor friend could have lost muscle during her "diet" phase of all cardio. Just because you think she looks better does not mean that her lean body mass stayed the same. She could very well have lost 5lbs of pure fat and 5lbs of muscle and look better to you, if she had a good amount of muscle to begin with. I know that is probably not what happened, but just remember that when fat is covering muscle you really do not know how much you have until you lose the fat. Unless she measured her body fat before and after you will not know if she indeed lost muscle. You do know though that she lost fat.

I still think when you drop lifting and pack on the cardio at a fast pace that you end up losing some lean mass along with the fat. To me, what Wayne is saying makes alot of sense. For me, it is all in intense lifting and intense cardio. But I do know all bodies are different and I think you should experiment with the endurance training. Just MAKE SURE you still do enough reps to "feel the burn". You still need to challenge your muscles!!

Also, don't wanna feel like a dunse here, cuz I know you are an RN Carol, but......

Don't we have fat marbelized in our muscles? The less fit you are the more fat is there and the more fit the less fat, but it is there. This is what I thought.......


Janice
 
Janice: I always thought I had heard the same thing........about fat being marbelized in the muscle.......just think of a piece of beef and how some have lots of marbelized fat, and other cuts are very lean.

Kim
 
Janice, fat is stored in fat cells, and it is deposited in different places in the body, including the muscles. Cellulite is nothing more than stored fat cells in a layer under the skin.

Kim, I love the side of beef visual!! LOL!!

Carol
:)
 
Found the Article

This article is from www.thefactsaboutfitness.com (informative site)

How to build muscle and lose fat at the same time...
A common goal for many people — especially when they're just starting out on a regular training program — is to lose fat and build muscle at the same time.

The reason that trying to lose fat and build muscle simultaneously is so difficult (but not impossible) is because of the opposing demands these goals impose on your body. To build a lot of new muscle tissue, your body needs energy. In other words, you'll need to overfeed — to consume more calories than you're burning each day. To lose fat, you need to create an energy deficit — to consume fewer calories than you burn.

Build muscle
Of course, it is possible to lose fat and build muscle at the same time, especially if you're just starting an exercise program. But your progress will be a lot slower than if you were to devote all your energy to one goal. So slow, in fact, that it's easy to become discouraged by your lack of progress and throw in the towel.

The fact is, you're far more likely to get better results by splitting your training goals into several phases, and working on one after the other.

The problem comes when deciding which goal to work towards first. The typical approach is to bulk up as quickly as possible by eating everything in sight. Then, you simply shed the fat to reveal the layers of new muscle tissue you've worked so hard to build.

However, Dr. Gilbert Forbes, Professor Emeritus of Pediatrics and Biophysics at New York's University of Rochester, points out that during a period of overfeeding, you'll gain more muscle and less fat if you're lean to start with. In other words, if you want to lose fat and build muscle, focus on losing the fat first.

Lose fat
Fat is simply stored energy. Remember that energy is neither created nor destroyed over time. Although it might change form, the sum total always remains the same.

For example, the chemical energy in gasoline is changed into the same amount of movement energy in a moving car. When you put the brakes on, this movement energy isn't lost. Rather, it's converted into heat energy in the brakes.

The same principle holds true for the food you eat. Green plants use carbon dioxide, water, and the energy from the sun to form a type of sugar called glucose. That's where the word "carbohydrate" comes from. Carbo means "carbon", while hydrate means "water".

When you eat the plant (or the animal that's eaten the plant), the energy then gets stored in your body, in the form of fat, carbohydrate, or protein. When you exercise, this chemical energy is converted into both movement and heat energy.

Overfeeding
When you overfeed for a period of several weeks, it's common to gain a small amount of muscle as well as fat. In fact, obese people are not just overfat. They also have a lot more muscle than their lean counterparts. It's just so well hidden that you can't see it.

Dr. Forbes has discovered that the amount of fat and muscle you gain when you overfeed depends on how much bodyfat you have to start with. He reviewed a number of studies where test subjects were overfed for a minimum of three weeks.

For every 10 pounds of weight gained by an overweight individual, 4 pounds come from lean tissue, and 6 pounds come from fat.

For every 10 pounds of weight gained by a lean individual, 7 pounds come from lean tissue, and 3 pounds come from fat.

Of course, more lean tissue doesn't necessarily equate to more muscle tissue. Stored fluid and carbohydrate also contribute to gains in lean tissue.

These figures shouldn't be taken as an accurate guide as to what you'll gain when you overfeed. After all, everyone has a slightly different definition of what "lean" means. Moreover, the longer the period of overfeeding lasts, the greater the chances are that the weight you gain will be in the form of fat. Rather, these numbers illustrate the principle that it's best to focus all your efforts on losing fat before trying to build muscle.

It's also worth pointing out that a period of controlled overfeeding should be relatively short (no longer than eight weeks). If it lasts too long, your body fat levels will rise, and the proportion of fat weight you gain will increase. And don't try to add weight too quickly. If you're consistently gaining more than one pound in weight each week, the chances are that a lot of it's fat, rather than muscle.

Reference

Forbes, G.B. (2000). Body fat content influences the body composition response to nutrition and exercise. Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences, 904, 359-365

Thought you all would enjoy this!
Nothing is set in stone but it's always good to read what's out there! Regardless of the various theories ,options and programs available, it'll always be up to the individual to make their own decision to find out what works best for them! This may take a bit but DON'T GIVE UP! You will learn so much more about your body and it's changing needs along the way through trial and error! Enjoy !!!It's a journey NOT a race!;-)
 
RE: Found the Article

This has been a great thread!!! My thanks to cbelle for starting this one. And, Francine, thank you for that article and the link!!! You've helped me sort out some things that I have to deal with (losing fat and gaining/maintaining muscle) and I'm sure for others. Thank you again to all who've contributed to this lady's education.:)
 
RE: Found the Article

Great article!! Thanks, Francine!! I really love the exchange of information that takes place on this forum!! I learn something new everytime I come here.

Carol
:)
 
RE: Found the Article

Francine, you have no idea how much you have helped me! Your post just clarified many issues for me. I need to bulk up and lose the flab in my lower body -- opposing goals. No wonder my progress has been so slow! I did read about overfeeding a long time ago, when I was starting out at 98 lbs., and knew it was something I didn't want to do. Those bulky, ripped men in those muscle building web sites swear on it. But then I thought there's a big difference between men's and women's bodies. And knowing my body, stuffing myself with even the right foods would make only my hips and butt swell while my upper body would remain as skinny, so I knew that wasn't the right route for me. I was a size 4 at 98 lbs. I just paid my doctor a visit and was 107 lbs. on her scale in my size 2 pants. Took me almost 6 months to get to this point. For me, that's a long time. But with this thread, I think I now know how to tweak my workouts and make them more efficient. Thanks again, and thanks everyone.

Pinky:)
 
RE: Found the Article

So basically, according to that article, my theory wasn't off the wall? Pick one goal and work on it (lose fat, or build muscle) before moving onto the next goal. Assuming you want faster results. Sounds like its more cardio and less weights for me! And more endurance or circuit style wieghts rather than say, PS or S&H.
 
RE: Found the Article

Cbelle,

No, your theory wasn't far off at all.

Building muscle requires a calorie SURPLUS, while losing fat requires a calorie DEFICIT - very conflicting requirements.

Bodybuilders know this and will eat lots of protein to build muscle and then go on a strict fat-reduction diet prior to competition.
 
RE: Found the Article

Do I DARE add another element to this debate?

What if one is eating a low carb, low fat diet (higher protein)? And eating clean 100% of the time. Would this type of diet be giving the body what it needs to efficiently do BOTH (lose fat and build muscle), or would the tendency be for the body to still burn lean body mass as well as fat?

I am trying to do both at this point. I've been very discouraged by the slow scale weight loss. But I can feel the muscles underneath and that helps. I try to measure to help remind myself it's working, tool. I have gone down a size in 6 weeks (16 to 14), and lost 18 pounds. Oh, and according to my Tanita (which is probably NOT the best measurement, but at least I have something to use as a gauge), I've lost 3 or 4% fat.

Should I consider a different approach?
 
RE: Found the Article

So, basically since I need to lose a substantial amount of weight and would love to be defined, I should concentrate on cardio, and do more endurance type training instead of let's say, PS or S&H (which I don't currently have, but want)? How about the Pyramids? Where would they fit in in the scheme of things?

Thanks,

Kim
 
RE: Found the Article

It sounds to me like the best course of action if you want to lose wieght, would be to do 4-6 days of cardio and either a body part per day like CTX or PH/ME?PUB?PLB....does this sound right? I suppose Circuit Max or Body max would also be good. Well, I'm gonna go for it I think. We'll see what happens!
 
I tried that...

I am considered thin, and don't build muscle easily. I usually lift as heavy as I can most of the time, and do 2-3 cardio workouts a week. I have some bodyfat around my abs to lose, so I tried to up the cardio to 60 minutes a day, 6 days a week, and do one bodypart a day from CTX or S&H. I got FATTER. My waistline increased and I was definitely softer.

I've changed my plan, and have gone back to my heavy lifting, less cardio, and added a circuit workout a week (Bootcamp, Gauntlet, or whatever) to keep my metabolism high. I have decided to decrease my calorie intake and see if that makes a difference. I don't need to lose weight, but need to decrease my bodyfat. I WISH I could gain muscle, but extra calories seem to go straight to abs fat!

We are all different, and have to do experiments to see what works for each of us.

PennyLaney
 
RE: Found the Article

Hi Kim! You would want to build more muscle first for 6 weeks using either PS or S&H (you want to do 3 exercises for 3 sets per muscle but only 6-8 reps using the heaviest weight possible w/good form) keeping in mind to consume more protein w/30g of fiber; next 6 weeks you want to start to sculpt which would be to start to increase your sets & reps by doing 4 sets for back & chest w/12 reps & 5 sets for shoulders/biceps & triceps w/12 reps still using PS as well as upping your cardio by one more session & making sure to take in 45g of fiber; the very last 6 weeks (this is where you'll start to use all endurance tapes + more cardio using either the IMAX tapes or Circuit tapes) or you can do 5 sets for back & chest & 6 sets for shoulders/triceps/biceps; this is the cutting phase keeping in mind to take in 60g of fiber. This oughta do it! I've had very good results myself by doing this. I've dropped over 9" all over my body. Just a suggestion take it or leave it, Kathy:D
 

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