How to know what to eat if vegan is the goal?
- Thread starter RhiannonW
- Start date
rcbinmichigan
Cathlete
I'm vegan, have been mostly since I was 16. I'm very healthy, buff/muscular, with lots of energy. Eating vegan is eating only plant food--you don't eat any animal foods whatsoever, including honey and gelatin; veganism itself is a political statement, taking a conscious stance of not exploiting animals as best as you consciously can. That means no leather, suede, wool, silk etc. If you just don't want to eat any animal foods, you are not technically "vegan." That is actually a vegetarian diet, tho that word has been corrupted from it’s actual meaning of eating only plant foods.
I eat plant foods, focusing on starches to keep me satisfied (potatoes, sweet potatoes, rices, corn and beans) and non-starch veggies such as green & yellow beans, asparagus, carrots, cabbages, peas, broccoli, cauliflower, and rolled grains (I mix oats, rye, barley, and wheat and add oat bran--all organic).
I have pretty much given up flour products, although whole-grain flour products are healthy--after hitting my mid-30's my body turned those easily-available calories into more fat than it used to. I also don't use any added oil whatsoever--there's much documentation of the connection between added fat in the diet and cancer, heart disease, other diseases. The human body evolved getting the fat it needed from plants, it doesn't understand isolated elements, including fat.
Also it is a myth that the human body needs "complete" protein--that research was done on rats, which do need more protein than humans so. A potato has more than twice as much protein as the human body needs, all complete. Animal protein, including dairy, is harsh on the human body and robs the skeleton of necessary minerals, contributing to osteoporosis--the largest animals on the planet are vegetarian, and cow's milk gets its calcium from the plants they eat. Osteoporosis occurs among dairy-consuming populations; non-dairy consuming cultures have little or no osteoporosis (amongst other diseases common to animal-food consuming groups).
The body feels hunger for a reason--it's a survival mechanism. You can eat a lot, never be hungry, feed your cells, and be in great shape all on plant foods--and our polluted planet desperately needs us to give up our misplaced concentration on animal foods.
These are links to vegan sites that have lots of info, boards, and recipes:
http://drmcdougall.com/
http://www.vegsource.com/
If you have additional questions, need help adapting recipes, motivation, etc, go to the Dr. McDougall boards (on left side of home page click on "Discussion."). That board is very supportive just like the Cathe boards. On VegSource there are several websites/boards, including VegAthletes, for vegan athletes. They’re pretty motivating and supportive, too. A lot of those people are serious athletes who are vegan—pretty inspiring.
I wish you much joy in this new journey you are embarking on—I fully support you in the gift you will give to yourself and the planet with this compassionate choice. May you feel the peace you were created to be on this planet.
I eat plant foods, focusing on starches to keep me satisfied (potatoes, sweet potatoes, rices, corn and beans) and non-starch veggies such as green & yellow beans, asparagus, carrots, cabbages, peas, broccoli, cauliflower, and rolled grains (I mix oats, rye, barley, and wheat and add oat bran--all organic).
I have pretty much given up flour products, although whole-grain flour products are healthy--after hitting my mid-30's my body turned those easily-available calories into more fat than it used to. I also don't use any added oil whatsoever--there's much documentation of the connection between added fat in the diet and cancer, heart disease, other diseases. The human body evolved getting the fat it needed from plants, it doesn't understand isolated elements, including fat.
Also it is a myth that the human body needs "complete" protein--that research was done on rats, which do need more protein than humans so. A potato has more than twice as much protein as the human body needs, all complete. Animal protein, including dairy, is harsh on the human body and robs the skeleton of necessary minerals, contributing to osteoporosis--the largest animals on the planet are vegetarian, and cow's milk gets its calcium from the plants they eat. Osteoporosis occurs among dairy-consuming populations; non-dairy consuming cultures have little or no osteoporosis (amongst other diseases common to animal-food consuming groups).
The body feels hunger for a reason--it's a survival mechanism. You can eat a lot, never be hungry, feed your cells, and be in great shape all on plant foods--and our polluted planet desperately needs us to give up our misplaced concentration on animal foods.
These are links to vegan sites that have lots of info, boards, and recipes:
http://drmcdougall.com/
http://www.vegsource.com/
If you have additional questions, need help adapting recipes, motivation, etc, go to the Dr. McDougall boards (on left side of home page click on "Discussion."). That board is very supportive just like the Cathe boards. On VegSource there are several websites/boards, including VegAthletes, for vegan athletes. They’re pretty motivating and supportive, too. A lot of those people are serious athletes who are vegan—pretty inspiring.
I wish you much joy in this new journey you are embarking on—I fully support you in the gift you will give to yourself and the planet with this compassionate choice. May you feel the peace you were created to be on this planet.
N
noc529
Guest
Are you freaking kidding me???? Is there a brain cell left in your brain? Did you realize cows and humans have different digestive system? Humans are made to eat BOTH meat and plants. I'm sorry--I just don't agree with you about your theory. I think it's mostly mumbojumbo. Did you even realize humans and cows have different teeth? Humans have 2 sets of teeth to eat both meat and plants. God help me with you people....
dani21496
Cathlete
I agree that some animal farms the ones that are more like factories, treat the animals inhumanely and pollute the waters and surrounding air. I can agree with that part, and am against that.
But, I believe the animals were put here for us for food. I would rather buy from the small honest farmer rather than those big factory like industrial farms.
But, I believe the animals were put here for us for food. I would rather buy from the small honest farmer rather than those big factory like industrial farms.
That response was entirely uncalled for! Apparently there are some who do fine and THRIVE on a vegan diet. Others do best with meat and dairy. If it doesn't affect you, why on Earth do you care what someone else uses as their eating plan? This post was so lacking in basic courtesy that I can't believe you felt the need to post it.
I would hope God might more focus his efforts helping others deflect mean, negative comments from pompous, holier than thou know it alls, than vegans.
Edit to add that I am referring to Mavericks reply.
I would hope God might more focus his efforts helping others deflect mean, negative comments from pompous, holier than thou know it alls, than vegans.
Edit to add that I am referring to Mavericks reply.
N
noc529
Guest
No wonder why people think vegetarians are nutcases. You preach people to be vegans and all so what's the diff. with my posting an opinion? Besides, vegan or not, people still get sick anyway. I don't even eat meat everyday but I don't think vegans are the healthiest people in the whole free world, honey
dimples237
Cathlete
Maverick:
>
>
> No wonder why people think vegetarians are nutcases. You
>preach people to be vegans and all so what's the diff. with my
>posting an opinion? Besides, vegan or not, people still get
>sick anyway. I don't even eat meat everyday but I don't think
>vegans are the healthiest people in the whole free world,
>honey
Maverick,
I think your post would have been more of an opinion if it had excluded lines such as: "Are you freaking kidding me???? Is there a brain cell left in your brain? . . . God help me with you people...."
Opinions are one thing, but when they are coupled with insulting statements such as these, they cease to be harmless opinions. Who cares if someone's vegan or not? It's your right to disagree with anyone, but please be respectful when you respond to others who have different beliefs and practices than yours.
Someone posted a few weeks ago to you and asked if you had noticed how the threads that you participate in have a tendency to become negative and unproductive. Just something to think about . . .
>
>
> No wonder why people think vegetarians are nutcases. You
>preach people to be vegans and all so what's the diff. with my
>posting an opinion? Besides, vegan or not, people still get
>sick anyway. I don't even eat meat everyday but I don't think
>vegans are the healthiest people in the whole free world,
>honey
Maverick,
I think your post would have been more of an opinion if it had excluded lines such as: "Are you freaking kidding me???? Is there a brain cell left in your brain? . . . God help me with you people...."
Opinions are one thing, but when they are coupled with insulting statements such as these, they cease to be harmless opinions. Who cares if someone's vegan or not? It's your right to disagree with anyone, but please be respectful when you respond to others who have different beliefs and practices than yours.
Someone posted a few weeks ago to you and asked if you had noticed how the threads that you participate in have a tendency to become negative and unproductive. Just something to think about . . .
mogambo
Cathlete
RE: Maverick:
I too have observed consistent trollish behavior from Maverick. I don't think we can realistically expect her to become more mature simply because we point it out. She is quite righteous in her opinions.
I suggest those of us who don't like it either ignore her, or respond only to the content of the messages.
For example, she says we are evolutionarily meant to eat meat and plants. This is unarguably true. However, we are also evolutionarily designed to have hairy armpits, reek to high heaven, die in childbirth at least 10% of the time, etc. We can choose to change these "destinies.
Snake venom is natural but that doesn't make it healthy.
We are inhabiting a polluted overpopulated planet. Animal agriculture is increasingly factory-based, cruel and environmentally unsustainable. Large amounts of animal food in our diets is arguably unhealthy, but definitely a problem from an environmental and animal rights point of view. I have my flaws, but being a moron has never been one of them. I applaud the logic of those who try to avoid animal-based diets, who avoid factory-farmed meat and dairy, or who try to make changes in the world by altering their patterns of consumption.
I too have observed consistent trollish behavior from Maverick. I don't think we can realistically expect her to become more mature simply because we point it out. She is quite righteous in her opinions.
I suggest those of us who don't like it either ignore her, or respond only to the content of the messages.
For example, she says we are evolutionarily meant to eat meat and plants. This is unarguably true. However, we are also evolutionarily designed to have hairy armpits, reek to high heaven, die in childbirth at least 10% of the time, etc. We can choose to change these "destinies.
Snake venom is natural but that doesn't make it healthy.
We are inhabiting a polluted overpopulated planet. Animal agriculture is increasingly factory-based, cruel and environmentally unsustainable. Large amounts of animal food in our diets is arguably unhealthy, but definitely a problem from an environmental and animal rights point of view. I have my flaws, but being a moron has never been one of them. I applaud the logic of those who try to avoid animal-based diets, who avoid factory-farmed meat and dairy, or who try to make changes in the world by altering their patterns of consumption.
RE: Maverick:
My apologies to the board for reacting to Maverick's post. I don't post much and haven't been around enough lately to know who she is or about past "trollish behavior"...but that type of post really sets off a hot button reaction in me. You're absolutely right that its best to ignore...
But anyway....lets return to the original question. I am not a vegan but am attempting to go towards a more veggie based diet... who knows, someday, I may go all the way! I'm one of those people that meat creates problems for so I am very interested in hearing what is said. Just hoping that those who don't care, just skip the thread.
Karen
PS Mogambo - your post was very insightful - enjoyed reading your thoughts on this!
My apologies to the board for reacting to Maverick's post. I don't post much and haven't been around enough lately to know who she is or about past "trollish behavior"...but that type of post really sets off a hot button reaction in me. You're absolutely right that its best to ignore...
But anyway....lets return to the original question. I am not a vegan but am attempting to go towards a more veggie based diet... who knows, someday, I may go all the way! I'm one of those people that meat creates problems for so I am very interested in hearing what is said. Just hoping that those who don't care, just skip the thread.
Karen
PS Mogambo - your post was very insightful - enjoyed reading your thoughts on this!
kathryn
Cathlete
>I'd love to become a vegan, but don't know what foods to buy
>and not buy. Is there a list somewhere?
>
>Thanks!
Rhiannon,
I've been vegetarian since 1976, and vegan for most of that time. I know there are some lists of animal vs non-animal products available from the Vegetarian Resource Group (they have a brochure for sale on their site). Another site you might want to visit is that of Vegan Outreach.
I'd be happy to "talk" to you off-site if you have any questions or want other info. Feel free to e-mail me.
>and not buy. Is there a list somewhere?
>
>Thanks!
Rhiannon,
I've been vegetarian since 1976, and vegan for most of that time. I know there are some lists of animal vs non-animal products available from the Vegetarian Resource Group (they have a brochure for sale on their site). Another site you might want to visit is that of Vegan Outreach.
I'd be happy to "talk" to you off-site if you have any questions or want other info. Feel free to e-mail me.
N
noc529
Guest
I have a question to you vegans...What is the difference between eating an animal and plants? They both are living things so therefore we kill everything to eat. So, you vegans are as much of a murderer as meat eaters. Yes, I agree eating meat more than 2x a day is too much. If you want to be vegans, fine. Do that but I don't want to hear preaching about people who eat meat are murderers. Also, I do not have holier than thou attitude like a lot of you vegans. Also, I have a question....If being a vegan supposed to help you to stay thin then why do I see a lot of fat ones?
Mogambo, I'm a lot more mature than you all think. Trust me. If I read something ridiculous, then I don't keep it to myself as you've seen. Also, I'm a lot smarter than you all think I am.
Mogambo, I'm a lot more mature than you all think. Trust me. If I read something ridiculous, then I don't keep it to myself as you've seen. Also, I'm a lot smarter than you all think I am.
kathryn
Cathlete
Re: complete protein. [FOr those interested!) In the 70's, Francis Moore Lappé came out with the first edition of "Diet for a Small Planet" in which she stressed the absolute necessity of combining proteins at each meal to make sure that you get a complete protein. The book was full of recipes and combining charts all based around this idea.
Later, after Lappé had done more research, she ammended this info, stating that while it's not essential to get complete protein all at one time, it is important to vary your diet so that you are sure to get all amino acids (the building blocks of protein) during the course of a day or so (your body stores the incomplete amino acids for a while until the "missing" amino acids show up later.) Actually, the combos that make complete proteins are pretty easy to come by, and occur in many traditional diets. Beans or legumes and rice or corn are one example that I'm sure one could find many examples of.
Also, (for those still interested;-)), it was once thought that no plant-based proteins were complete in themselves. This was based on the rat nutrition studies that were done to test protein completeness (would rats thrive on X as the only source of protein?). Somewhere around the mid-1980's or so, new studies were done, after someone finally figured out that rats need more of a specific amino acid than humans did. Once this was compensated for, it was proven that soy is a complete protein.
[End of dissertation:+ ]
Later, after Lappé had done more research, she ammended this info, stating that while it's not essential to get complete protein all at one time, it is important to vary your diet so that you are sure to get all amino acids (the building blocks of protein) during the course of a day or so (your body stores the incomplete amino acids for a while until the "missing" amino acids show up later.) Actually, the combos that make complete proteins are pretty easy to come by, and occur in many traditional diets. Beans or legumes and rice or corn are one example that I'm sure one could find many examples of.
Also, (for those still interested;-)), it was once thought that no plant-based proteins were complete in themselves. This was based on the rat nutrition studies that were done to test protein completeness (would rats thrive on X as the only source of protein?). Somewhere around the mid-1980's or so, new studies were done, after someone finally figured out that rats need more of a specific amino acid than humans did. Once this was compensated for, it was proven that soy is a complete protein.
[End of dissertation:+ ]
Kathryn, thanks for all the scientific info. Complete proteins have always been a source of intrigue and confusion for me. The subject has come up before in this forum, and the gist of it was that pretty much any combination of beans, greens and grains would result in a complete protein. I did a search and some interesting points came up. You said in your post that one could combine these foods within "a day or so" of each other, (I was under the assumption that it had to be within one day, so that was exciting news for me!) and one site supported that and said we have up to TWO DAYS to combine those foods! Another site said that if you ate nothing but potatoes you would get all the essential amino acids, but it never said that a potato is a complete protein. Confusing!
I don't know why I'm so concerned about protein. I'm not a vegan, and I probably get plenty of protein, but I'd really like to know how a person would know if they had a protein deficiency. What would be the symptoms?
I don't know why I'm so concerned about protein. I'm not a vegan, and I probably get plenty of protein, but I'd really like to know how a person would know if they had a protein deficiency. What would be the symptoms?
kathryn
Cathlete
I don't know why I'm so concerned about protein. I'm not a
>vegan, and I probably get plenty of protein, but I'd really
>like to know how a person would know if they had a protein
>deficiency. What would be the symptoms?
I've heard of several clinical studies done on protein deficiency. What I heard is that unless someone is bases their diet on fruits only or junk food, it's almost impossible to be protein deficient. Researchers had a difficult time coming up with a diet that would make someone protein deficient withough resorting to something extreme. I think the new "high protein" diets may have revived the old buggaboo of "not getting enough protein," (something I've been questioned about a lot since I became veggie in the 70's. "HOw do you get enough protein?" bla bla bla!).
Actually,it's easier to get TOO MUCH protein (which is hard on the kidneys and causes mineral imbalances in the body) than to get too little, if you're eating enough food and have a varied diet. Now, if you eat only brown rice, or only fruit, or only junk food, there is definitely a risk of protein deficiency. I'll have to look it up, but I think the disease associated with it is called something like kwoshkwor. Ever heard of it? Probably not, since protein deficiency is almost unheard of in the Western world.
>vegan, and I probably get plenty of protein, but I'd really
>like to know how a person would know if they had a protein
>deficiency. What would be the symptoms?
I've heard of several clinical studies done on protein deficiency. What I heard is that unless someone is bases their diet on fruits only or junk food, it's almost impossible to be protein deficient. Researchers had a difficult time coming up with a diet that would make someone protein deficient withough resorting to something extreme. I think the new "high protein" diets may have revived the old buggaboo of "not getting enough protein," (something I've been questioned about a lot since I became veggie in the 70's. "HOw do you get enough protein?" bla bla bla!).
Actually,it's easier to get TOO MUCH protein (which is hard on the kidneys and causes mineral imbalances in the body) than to get too little, if you're eating enough food and have a varied diet. Now, if you eat only brown rice, or only fruit, or only junk food, there is definitely a risk of protein deficiency. I'll have to look it up, but I think the disease associated with it is called something like kwoshkwor. Ever heard of it? Probably not, since protein deficiency is almost unheard of in the Western world.
I for one would like to thank you for posting such a thoughtful, thought-provoking, honest and politically empasssioned response. I agree with your principles wholeheartedly and hope for a day when there may be more people of like-mind in this world to help preserve it for future generations.
I send you my condolences that you had to be subjected to the verbal animosity of another, less thoughtful poster.
Keeep posting! In solidarity,
Clare
I send you my condolences that you had to be subjected to the verbal animosity of another, less thoughtful poster.
Keeep posting! In solidarity,
Clare
michele1967
Cathlete
Yes, Kathyrn, you are right. It is Kwashiorkor.
It's not that common over on this side of the world. I have seen it here though, in very malnourished babies and children (and in some adults).
It is a result of severe protein deficiency. You can recognize it right away from the edema, poor growth, pot bellies, etc. These kids can have thin extremities, but huge bellies (and many times are swollen all over from excess fluid). Also, they can have liver damage.
The complete protein thing is funny, I agree.
I'm a dietitian and when I was in school and in training, God forbid you didn't mention eating beans w/out mentioning rice.
At least some of us know better now and are better able to educate families of children who may want to opt for a vegan diet.
And, I agree, most people take in much more protein than they need. It's not usually a problem for most people. It's just that there is really no need for the average person to worry that they don't get enough.
One more thing--when is Tribal Council??????
It's not that common over on this side of the world. I have seen it here though, in very malnourished babies and children (and in some adults).
It is a result of severe protein deficiency. You can recognize it right away from the edema, poor growth, pot bellies, etc. These kids can have thin extremities, but huge bellies (and many times are swollen all over from excess fluid). Also, they can have liver damage.
The complete protein thing is funny, I agree.
I'm a dietitian and when I was in school and in training, God forbid you didn't mention eating beans w/out mentioning rice.
At least some of us know better now and are better able to educate families of children who may want to opt for a vegan diet.
And, I agree, most people take in much more protein than they need. It's not usually a problem for most people. It's just that there is really no need for the average person to worry that they don't get enough.
One more thing--when is Tribal Council??????