Does it start with us?

L Sass

L Sass

Cathlete
Ok I'm going to wax philosophical for a bit, and it's likely to be long. For all of you who have not read The China Study - walk, run, skip, or plie-jack yourself to the library or bookstore to get it. It is so da** eye-opening and outrageous. I know there are some self-serving things in it, but the premise is how much disease we can control with nutrition and diet. The problem of course is the MONEY MONEY MONEY that's driving the food industry, the medical industry the insurance industry and the pharmaceutical industry (who all feed off of one another and have an interst in an unhealthy population)so that people are always steered toward the wrong diet, the wrong treatments, and above all else - DRUGS! And make no mistake, they are those expensive drugs that your insurance company - not your doctor - dictates how and when you can get it. God forbid the doctors gain some knowledge about nutrition and use it in a PREVENTATIVE manner.

So if this fiasco of a system that we have is ever going to change, doesn't it have to start with us? The kind of people who are interested in fitness and nutrition? Who else would ever be interested in changing it? Certainly nor the docs and drug reps (gotta say I don't think I can go into any doctor's office anymore without at least one drug rep visiting.)So if not us, who? But more importantly HOW? (My DH maintains that if you want to get any politicians attention you gotta stop the money trail - ie create a national campaign to have everyone stop paying their taxes - income, property, sales, etc. We all know how likely that is :( )

So how do we do it fitness groupies? Can we generate enough outrage and communication to somehow make a difference? Or do we wait until we're more broken? It's just so exasperating! (Yes I know my usual 90/50 blood pressure is probably elevated right now :) ) Read that book!

Lorrie
 
Hi Lorrie -

I love this book. I'm 3/4 of the way through it now. I still have yet to hit the diet chapter...but I get the idea.

I've already started eating more vegetarian-like the last few years (just because I prefer vegetables and I'm always on some sort of weight loss diet and vegetables are 0 points on weight watchers) but I'm going to have to step it up a bit. I'm afraid of not being able to have yogurt, eggs, and a small amount of cheese because right now these are staples in my diet.

I just picked up a few books from my local library. Both are cooking with vegetables so I can add variety to my meals. I also have an aunt that is suffering from many different ailments like heart disease, diabetes, obesity and I'm planning on making a visit to her with a copy of the book. She can read it and take what she wants from it.

Yes....I guess it's up to us to spread the word. I'm fascinated with this book.
 
LOVE, LOVE, LOVE this book!! I already made the switch from near vegetarian to full vegetarian and now near vegan before I read this. But I am glad to see others so excited by it! I am hoping that more vegetarians will bring about more vegetarian options in restaurants and more organic options in the grocery store. Unfortunately, because the almight dollar rules, a much more serious health crisis (yes, much more serious than the 33% obesity and high rate of Type 2 Diabetes we have today) must occur before people see the light and change. Unfortunately, most people I know IRL love their meat so it is a difficult mindset to change. :-( If you enjoy the "China Study" then you might also enjoy "Eat to Live" by Joel Fuhrman.
 
Not to be argumentative, but it is your employer or your plan administrator who determines what drugs and treatments are available to you via your health plan - not the insurer. I work for an incredibly ethical insurance company and I get really tired of people constantly bashing the industry, particularly since 99% of the public remains clueless about how insurance works.

Also, there was a long thread on this very topic recently and many of the people here who are in the medical profession took great offense at being characterized as being greedy, manipulative, and money-hungry.

I personally think books like this are grossly insulting simplifications of complex phenomena that rely on the simple fact that the general public is easily inflamed.

Off my soapbox,
Marie
 
Marie - how does an employer or administrator choose the drugs in the formulary? I'm asking because I truly don't know. In all the years that I served on our company's health insurance committee, we could choose the structure or level of benefit of coverage, but we were given a formulary list. We had no input into the drugs on that list and were told by the insurance reps that the best docs, pharmaceuticals, and insurance reps put it together. Were we misled by those reps when negotiating our contract? We had no choice in what actual drugs could be offered to our employees. So how does that happen?

Lorrie
 
Lorrie, it is my understanding that the plan admin selects the formulary (from multiple form. options) as well as the treatment options and levels of coverage. Clearly you have experience here, and perhaps the size of the company you worked for impacted the options that were available to you. (Premium levels and coverages are also driven by the level of risk being transferred from the insureds to the insurer, and this is actually lower if your population is larger - because it is more diverse and there are more insureds in the pool - and is disbursed over multiple geographic areas.)

My point was that most people believe xyz is either covered or not, based on some mandate by the insurance company.

Now, off to something really interesting: CTX Upper Body Split!

Marie
 
Marie,
I think the point trying to be made here is to be more informed as consumers about the nutrition choices we make. If it is possible to prevent certain diseases through good nutrition, then that is what we should do. We should not wait until we have tons of health problems and are in neeed of tons of medications before we decide to eat healthy(as a nation). This is a great book that gives tons of good information to people about nutrition, not insurance companies. IMO, everyone should read this book before they decide either way.

Carolyn
 
>Not to be argumentative, but it is your employer or your plan
>administrator who determines what drugs and treatments are
>available to you via your health plan - not the insurer. I
>work for an incredibly ethical insurance company and I get
>really tired of people constantly bashing the industry,
>particularly since 99% of the public remains clueless about
>how insurance works.
>
>Also, there was a long thread on this very topic recently and
>many of the people here who are in the medical profession took
>great offense at being characterized as being greedy,
>manipulative, and money-hungry.
>
>I personally think books like this are grossly insulting
>simplifications of complex phenomena that rely on the simple
>fact that the general public is easily inflamed.
>
>Off my soapbox,
>Marie
>


Thank you, Marie.

Michele
 
> The problem of course is the MONEY MONEY
>MONEY that's driving the food industry, the medical industry
>the insurance industry and the pharmaceutical industry (who
>all feed off of one another and have an interst in an
>unhealthy population)so that people are always steered toward
>the wrong diet, the wrong treatments, and above all else -
>DRUGS! And make no mistake, they are those expensive drugs
>that your insurance company - not your doctor - dictates how
>and when you can get it. God forbid the doctors gain some
>knowledge about nutrition and use it in a PREVENTATIVE
>manner.
>

Welcome to our capitalistic society and be thankful for it every day ...no other country in the world lives a better life (notice I didn't say healthier;)...I have also read the China Study and found it very compelling). Unfortunately, without the driving force (money) behind those expensive DRUGS so many people would die. There are many things wrong with our system, but make no mistake, there are so many things right with our system. Try living in the UK a while and waiting months (yes months!) to see a doctor (or even getting a decent doctor to work on you). We have the best doctors in the world here. Yep, I'm truly thankful.

I also don't feel it's my doctor's job per se to teach me how to eat....that's why we have dietitians. It's common knowledge that doctor's have a limited education in diet and nutrition. I don't go to a podiatrist and ask him to look at my teeth. IMO, we should all be realistic and take personal responsibility for our own lives and stop blaming everyone else. I hope this is not coming off too harsh because I'm really not intending it to be that way. I just get bothered when people don't take some personal responsibily. We all have brains and can make personal choices. We are lucky enough to live in a country so great that we are still allowed the opportunity to exercise those options. Oh yes, did I say I'm very grateful?

Off my soapbox now,
Robin
 
I think you're right, Robin. But my point is that WE know that because I think we are more educated than the average bear in terms of diet, nutrition, and health. We pay more attention to those issues. It may be common knowledge for us, but I really don't think that most people know that their doctors have limited education in diet and nutrition. This is not meant as an attack on those who work in "the industry", but for those who do work in the industry, do you honestly believe there is no problem? Without even looking at numbers or reading a book, I can tell that there are more obese and unhealthy people around where I live. So can we even begin to make a difference in this problem (assuming of course we're in agreement that there is a problem. I know that's quite an assumption.) Or is it just none of our business?

Lorrie
 
Well, I agree with everybody :D

Robin, you are 100 percent right, especially about nationalized health care. People who have no experience of it praise it to high heaven. When I hear them I always think, wait until someone tells them they'll have to wait ten years to have their child's tonsils removed, and see how fast their attitude changes (that actually happened to a British friend of mine. Her parents got a private doctor, paid out of pocket and never looked back).

Lorrie, I also agree that the average person thinks that doctors are automatically up on health and fitness info.

I think it starts with us when it comes to us living our own personal best life. We don't necessarily have to be out lecturing to the public about the importance of health and fitness but we can set an example at home and with the kids in our lives. Sadly though, the desire to change has to come from within and I just think alot of adults aren't interested. I truly cannot believe that in this day and age people are not aware of the basic "eat right and get more exercise" philosophy, yet millions of adults don't do either of those things. I can't count the number of times I have had people ask me about F/H. "What do you do?" is generally the first question. My answer, "I try to eat right and get plenty of exercise." This is not as sexy an answer as "Well, there's this *great* magic pill," so there generally aren't any follow-up questions. The responses are usually, "that's too hard," or "I don't have time." Shrug. I've given up trying to influence (adult) minds about it. As Master Yoda said, "Do or do not do. There is no try." :p

Sparrow


Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming ‘Wow - what a ride!’ — Peter Sage
 
Lorrie-
The book sounds intriguing and now I want to read it. But let me ask you something. I seem to have a major worry-wart personality. When I read books that suggest that the "whole system" is all screwed up I have a tendency to feel helpless and get upset. I love new information, but only if there's a clear-cut way to incorporate it into my life. From your description, it sounds like this book describes a global problem. Of those who read this book or who are reading it, did you find the book more motivating or more depressing?

-Nancy
 
>I think you're right, Robin. But my point is that WE know
>that because I think we are more educated than the average
>bear in terms of diet, nutrition, and health. We pay more
>attention to those issues. It may be common knowledge for us,
>but I really don't think that most people know that their
>doctors have limited education in diet and nutrition. This is
>not meant as an attack on those who work in "the industry",
>but for those who do work in the industry, do you honestly
>believe there is no problem? Without even looking at numbers
>or reading a book, I can tell that there are more obese and
>unhealthy people around where I live. So can we even begin to
>make a difference in this problem (assuming of course we're in
>agreement that there is a problem. I know that's quite an
>assumption.) Or is it just none of our business?
>

Lorrie, I agree we have an overweight unhealthy population, but all the information is out there for people to decide how they want to treat their bodies. There are public advocacy organizations (CSPI) and universities (Tufts) that alert the public as much as possible about latest healthy food options etc, but it still comes down to personal choice. You just can't tell me that the common person doesn't know a Big Mac and fries is not a healthy food choice. Even when my daughter was 6 years old she was able to tell me that doughnuts came from the "others" food group (she learned it in school). People are getting fatter, but it's not because they don't know any better...it's because they are "choosing" not to do the right thing. People are a lot smarter than you are giving them credit for and have access to so much more information now.

Honestly, I don't believe it is our business to preach to anyone about diet since it is such a such a personal choice and because there are such varying views on what is considered the absolute "perfect" healthy diet (even the experts can't agree). I only know what works and fuels my body best and I know it's not the same as what's best for Joe Smith. I certainly can't and won't ever tell Joe Smith how to eat. My only wish is that some day Milky Way Bars will be reclassified as a health food then I will be happy:p...For now, I will just sit here and wait;)

Robin:9
 
I have to agree with Robin and Sparrow. Sure, our system isn't perfect, and sure, obesity and heart disease are a global problem, at least in developed countries. On the other hand, this isn't the type of problem that government and regulations can magically "fix" for everyone by passing laws or regulations. Diet and exercise are a matter of personal responsibility--all the public service ads and MyFoodPyramid web sites (and ads on cereal boxes) aren't going to do anything if you ignore the advice and constantly make poor choices. I agree with Sparrow, too, that those of who are into it can set a good example.
 
Lsass...you already put your finger on the main problem. You said that the people here on this forum are more informed about healthy eating...yet how many people on this forum are eating candy, cookies, sugar loaded breakfast cereals, chips, pop, fruit juices, on and on and on? MANY.

So now you see the problem. It isn't Big Brother out to get us, he doesn't have to get involved as we are already slowly killing ourselves with obesity, diabetes, heart disease and lack of exercise.

If you want to blame someone or something...look to the television's, video games, and food manufacturer's.

Doctor's and insurance companies didn't start out to 'get' American's...no, we've created the dependency ourselves by the poor diets we eat and the lack of exercise we get.

I understand your point. I have not read the book you refer to, I don't need to because my mother waaay back in the fifties/sixties taught myself and my siblings what proper nutrition and exercise was. Living a healthy lifestyle isn't something that was just invented in the nineties. But you can tell people and tell people and tell people that what they are eating and their lack of activity is killing them and leading to chronic health problems...but very few listen.

It would be interesting to know what every forum member here ate for breakfast this morning. I think you would be very surprised that most people here are eating sugar and refined carbs for breakfast. IF they're eating breakfast at all. What are they eating for their coffee breaks at work?

Don't assume that just because people are on this forum that they are walking down the path of the knowledgeable. It's great that this book was able to make you take a look at your diet and make the proper changes. But don't expect to change the world. American's have become an overweight, lazy society and you can't change that behavior overnight.

It is a start that certain groups are lobbying congress to get all of the added sugars out of processed foods. Why does ketsup have corn syrup in it? Because American's will eat more of it and not even realize that it's the sugar in the ketsup that they are craving. Would your kids eat french fries if you put tomatoes on them?;-)
 
Sparrow, Bunbun and Robin, I just read a description of this book and it sounds like it goes way beyond what is commonly thought of as "eating right". This book is apparently stating that what we think of as "eating right" is not so right. I think that most people know that Big Macs and french fries are unhealthy. But this book seems to be saying that fish and skim milk are very unhealthy also. This book intends to be an eye-opener for those of us who think we know what we're doing. It's not the usual "exercise and eat right to maintain health" stuff that you read everywhere else. Just wanted to add that.

-Nancy
 
40something, see my post above. This book is not about your mother's proper nutrition. Quite the opposite, in fact.

-Nancy
 
Wow, this is a very intersting thread! I really love what Robin is saying. We do need to take responsibility. I think the big problem is that people do not know how to eat healthy. I think a good bunch of them really THINK they know how to eat right...but they don't.

We are fortunate because we are driven. This is a topic that really interests us and captivates us. It is a topic that bores others to tears....so of course we are going to be at the top of our game on the subject. We like it enough to browse through web page after web page reading and learning. I think the average person sees "Fat Free" and assumes "healthy food".

So what is my plan?? Educate myself as much as possible on the subject and raise my family in a healthy environment...with healthy foods everywhere and parents exercising regulary and encouraging them in active play. This way it becomes second nature to them and they don't have to "learn" how to do it. It's just like teaching them to speak as babies...they pick up on it. But if I wanted to teach them how to speak Italian...well, we'd have to sit down and work on that!
 
>40something, see my post above. This book is not about your
>mother's proper nutrition. Quite the opposite, in fact.
>
>-Nancy

Nancy, thanks for the heads-up.

I'm interested in reading this book, the only thing that makes me hesitate is the sheer number of books out there telling me what I eat is wrong. I find it extremely tedious to always be afraid of my food. It's getting to the point where dinner is going to be reduced to grass, water and a salt lick.

Sparrow

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming ‘Wow - what a ride!’ — Peter Sage
 
Hey Nancy...my mother doesn't drink milk. She's European and grew up eating a very different diet than American's do.

American children drink more milk than any other nation and it isn't necessary. They can get their calcium from other food sources but in the United States, it is far easier to just pour a glass of milk and shove a peanut butter and jelly sandwich down a kid.

I don't drink milk either but I do love good cheeses. :9
 
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