Do you ever wonder...

pixiesis

pixiesis

Cathlete
If our political differences are all just a distraction to keep us from noticing that we the people no longer have a voice? I don't know who does run the country (banks and corporations?) but I know it is most definitely not us.

I'm a liberal, I watch Olbermann and Maddow, others here love Beck and O'Reilly. And we enjoy watching our guys bash the other team, but in many ways it's really useless isn't it?

I mean, GWB ran on an anti-abortion platform. This (along with other Conservative issues) got him elected. And once he was elected, did he outlaw abortion? Of course not! He never planned on it. It was just for votes. I'm sure it's the same with Obama, and everyone else. It's how our system works.

I like our president as a human being, but more and more I wonder if he can make a difference. It seems like all the money and energy in our political system goes to getting and staying in office, not on governing. I have hope, but it's getting dimmer and dimmer, and meanwhile, I notice Americans (including me) keep focusing on our differences, seemingly oblivious to this problem. I'm not saying that my liberal beliefs aren't still dear to me, as I'm sure other peoples' beliefs are dear to them, only that we don't seem to notice that it's precisely our focus on our beliefs that seems to keep us from noticing what's going on.

Anyone else ever think about this? Or do I sound like a paranoid freak? :p
 
No, you're not a paranoid freak! I feel the same way! I don't think we know the half of who really runs the country and pulls the strings.
 
I agree with you. I'm at the point where I really doubt anyone in power cares. I struggle with this because I want to be and stay informed but there's a growing part of me that thinks that it really just doesn't matter who I vote for, at least on a national level, so why do I create angst for myself by reading all this political stuff? And I find that my opinions are not so definitive anymore; no one's wearing a totally white or black hat these days, no one has clean hands, so where does that leave we the people in our choices?

More and more I am focusing on the internal and local. Does that make me an ostrich? Maybe.

Good topic.
 
I completely agree! It seems like it used to be you were a Democrat or a Republican, based on certain issues, how you were raised, what your beliefs were. But you didn't HATE someone just because of the differences here. Now one side bashes the other and the world is going to come to an end if you don't move to one side.

There are certain issues I'll always stand behind, but for many things I'll bet most people agree more than not.
 
Nope you're not the only one who feels this way. It's seems that politics is all about getting into power and then keeping said power. Furthermore, it seems that anyone who truly wants to make a difference can't because of all the power grabbing.

Also, I think since the 24 hour news cycle has been put into play, we are inundated with national politics. I know for myself, I have to turn it off or I get caught up in it; which then causes me to feel stressed, angst, anger, and/or unhappiness. I do like to know what is going on and I like to keep informed but sometimes I just need to tune it out.

ITA Sparrow: The local level seems like the best place to focus. I think people can still make a difference in our own cities, towns, or state!
 
sparrow13 said:
I agree with you. I'm at the point where I really doubt anyone in power cares. I struggle with this because I want to be and stay informed but there's a growing part of me that thinks that it really just doesn't matter who I vote for, at least on a national level, so why do I create angst for myself by reading all this political stuff? And I find that my opinions are not so definitive anymore; no one's wearing a totally white or black hat these days, no one has clean hands, so where does that leave we the people in our choices?

More and more I am focusing on the internal and local. Does that make me an ostrich? Maybe.

Good topic.
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The only point where we differ is that I do still have definitive opinions, and I believe most of the politicians wear gray hats. I think all of this fence sitting has castrated them.
 
I agree 100% with what everyone said. The people definitely do not hold ANY power; you vote for someone based on their platforms and then once they get into office, those platforms fall to the wayside. It's very disheartening and when I stop to think about it, it just makes me furious and I feel helpless. We've always been told that our voice means something, to get out there and vote, educate ourselves on the issues at hand but honestly, what does any of that bring us? This sounds bad but I can see why people don't even bother to vote anymore. I'm an independent but I did vote for Obama based on his platforms and was so excited when he was elected; now, I sit back and think "wow, what was the point of that?" I feel like there will be no change and he will not deliver on any of those promises he made before he was elected to office. It's really sad that politicians' wallets govern more of their decision-making than the actual well-being of the American public does.
 
We have moved from being citizens to being seen as consumers and workers. That is it. This is a corporation run country with very little room for the average person.
 
What irks me is all this political game playing: whoever is elected, the other party concertedly works to place themselves for the next elections instead of trying to work together to make the country better for all.

That's really been apparent in the last year or so, when Republicans have said things like they want to make sure the health care bill doesn't pass so they can count this as a loss for Obama.
 
We all want to have "our way" and if we can't have it, then nobody is going to get anything. We fight like spoiled little brats and forget about the big picture. Thing is, you can't please everyone all the time. But if I can't have my way, then you can't have yours. And pooh-pooh on you.

Seems like all of our politicians, groups, unions, whatevers, just want to argue instead of talking to each other like adults. We can all play nice together, but some people (unfortunately those in charge) tend to be too pig headed to see it. And it does seem to be that those of us who elect them there have no say after they are elected.

Its surely broke, but I don't know how to fix it. Mr. Washington and Mr. Lincoln would be ashamed of us. I know I am. :(

Nan
 
Amy!!!

I was just talking about this a few days ago.

The bottom line is that "we the people" have absolutely no say in how our "picture-perfect" democratic country is run.

The reason politicians argue for eternity is that they are arguing for their own profits. I think most of us would be sick to our stomachs if we really knew the behind-the-scenes action of the political world. 99% of these people are about lining their own pockets, and that is ALL they care about. Oh, and looking like big shots. The 1% that do care about getting something done are shutout before they even get the chance to try.

Honestly, I was a much, much happier person when I refused to acknowledge politics. I'd rather be ignorant than so angry all of the time.
 
I'm not so sure it's individual politicians to blame, at least not entirely. I think some really are motivated by the desire to improve the country (I believe Obama fits in this category, along with plenty of others who I may not agree with politically). And of course others are in it for personal gain. But it almost doesn't matter whether they're good or bad guys, or even what they stand for, because they can't enact any change at all with the way things are, at least, not any change that benefits, or even addresses, the citizens' needs. It takes so much money to even run for office, and to get that amount of money you have to be beholden to corporations...that's the crux of the problem, as I see it anyway. It's scary isn't it?
 
I re-read 1984 not too long ago, and thinking about this really reminds me of how in the book Winston is tricked into believing that there is a "Brotherhood", a movement that opposes the Party. Of course, there isn't, it was just the way for the Thought Police to weed out troublemakers.

Ok, maybe I do sound a little paranoid now! :)
 
Liann said:
No, you're not a paranoid freak! I feel the same way! I don't think we know the half of who really runs the country and pulls the strings.
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This is EXACTLY what I was going to type! I think the President is more like a "symbol" or figurehead...kind of like the Queen of England. I would like to think it is Congress that really "runs" things since they pass the laws but even they are so wishy-washy ("I voted for it before I voted against it.") and just out for votes to stay in office!

Carrie
 
pixiesis said:
I mean, GWB ran on an anti-abortion platform. This (along with other Conservative issues) got him elected. And once he was elected, did he outlaw abortion? Of course not! He never planned on it. It was just for votes. :p
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My understanding is this: The supreme court decided in 1973 that a woman has a fundamental right to obtain an abortion and that a fetus is not protected under the constitution, therefore the practice cannot be outlawed. What Bush did do was to sign into law a ban on partial birth abortion. This ban was allowed to stand because the original decision indicated the state can restrict abortion as it sees fit when the fetus is viable.
 
Miss Lee said:
The only point where we differ is that I do still have definitive opinions, and I believe most of the politicians wear gray hats. I think all of this fence sitting has castrated them.
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Yeah, the fence sitting irks me, especially because I personally have definitive opinions.

I've never watched an entire Olberman or Maddow program, but I confess to being a Rush Limbaugh fan since the very beginning. I also occasionally watch O'Reilly and Beck. I tune in to these programs not because I enjoy watching them beat up the other side, but because if I did not I would never hear the other side of the current issues. One reason why I think this way is because I know from listening to Rush that if I relied on what is reported about what he says then I would not be getting a straight story. In other words, what he says and/or what he means by what he has said is always taken out of context when reported by the so-called mainstream media.

When it comes to the federal government, I'm fairly cynical, but so far have not relinquished my optimism.
 
Nah, our system is designed that way. Our founders hated political parties so tried to design a system where the only people who could get elected were moderates. They did a damn fine job of it too. :p

If Bush had the chance, he'd have nominated anti-choice justices to the supreme court, sat back & prayed that someone would challenge the '73 decision & have it overturned. Obama surely wants to appoint as many pro-choice justices as possible during his term.

Most campaigns are bullcrap. It's kind of up to us to understand the limitations under which legislators operate so we can weed through the empty campaign promises & understand what in their platforms they can actually do. Working at the local level I see so much of this ignorance, especially from newly elected officials who think they'll be able to change the world & realize there's little they can do differently than the previous officials b/c they just can't.

You guys are right to focus on your local & state politics. First off, they affect your lives much more directly. What they do is usually very meaningful to voters when it comes to zoning, property taxes, law enforcement, recreational programs, etc. etc. Second, they're closer to you & you're much more likely to be able to get real response from them. Third, these are the folks who run in elections where every single vote truly does make a difference, so they pay very close attention to their constituents.

Before I get off my soapbox, I just want to say STOP BEING SO CYNICAL! Most of your elected officials & govmt staff really care sincerely about what they do. :)

OK, back to work for my taxpayers. ;):p:)
 
I think the reality of politicians migrating to the center is not new as I remember learning the concept 25 years ago when I was studying Political Science. And it wasn't a new idea then. But I do think it has been made more obvious with the 24 hour news cycle where we get to see the politicians more and have a better record on what they have said vs. what they are doing than any other generation has ever had.

That being said, I also think, in this day and age where we have virtually everything at our fingertips, that we expect change to happen much quicker than any other generation ever has as well. When I think about the Great Depression, it took many years (and a war) for the US to come out of that situation, yet because he won four elections, it doesn't appear that people gave up on FDR because he was unable to resolve the situation in a year.

However, I do think the ties between politicians and corporations are stronger than they've ever been, and I strongly believe that many politicians answer more to the business world than they do their electorate. While I understand that our current economic system is completely reliant on some businesses, and, as a result, it has been in the best interest of the nation (and the world) to make sure those businesses haven't failed, it doesn't appear that there is much effort being put into ensuring that our country isn't so reliant on so few businesses for our economic stability in the future. I happen to think that isn't being done because there are too many people in political office who have a vested interest in those few big businesses and actually realize that they can govern the nation more anonymously, more profitably, and perhaps even more powerfully through their strong business ties than through public legislation.

I won't give up on voting, but I feel I am much more aware of what I'm voting for now than I was a few years ago, and I use the term 'what' very specifically. I'm not voting for a 'who' anymore since I believe that the bulk of politicians really are willingly 'owned' by business. As a result, I feel like I'm voting more for the businesses these politicians are associated with than for a person and anything that might be said on a campaign trail. I believe that it only takes looking at those politician/business ties to really discover how a person will govern once in office and all the rest is just meaningless rhetoric.

That doesn't mean there aren't good, well-meaning politicians at all levels of the government, because I think there are. A strong tie to business doesn't necessarily equate to 'corrupt' in my opinion. But I do think those ties illustrate a politician's interests more effectively than broad sweeping speeches designed to appeal to the diverse interests of a voting public.
 
Thanks for the thoughtful posts, Lauramax and CLango. And CLango, I completely agree with your points about government and corporations. I guess this point is really what I was getting at. I wish that politics and government didn't depend so much on corporate money.
 
I think that's true to an extent, but I think it's b/c corporations themselves are wealthier & therefore more powerful. Clango I'm guessing you read Federalist 10, which IMO was one of the most brilliant political pieces ever written (I know what you're thinking & no, I don't think it's "Going Rogue" :D), written by one of the most brilliant American politicians you almost never read about.

So Madison wrote about "interest groups," which at the time were religious, trade & agricultural, but have obviously expanded, hence the power of corporations, insurance industry, banking, & on & on.

Also virtual representation--the idea that a legislator for whom you didn't vote still represents your interest, for example Florida's senators are likely representing the interests of sr. citizens across the nation--has been around for hundreds of years. England used this argument during the American Revolution & it would've been legitimate if they'd won the war. ;)

Anyway, I'm rambling about something I find fascinating but probably bores the daylights out of the rest of the world. Here's Fed 10, if you're interested--it's short & easy to get: http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa10.htm
 
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