Defending Her Honor
- Thread starter exercisejunkie
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exercisejunkie
Member
Kathryn,
This is exactly my point!!!
Because Hillary is *strong* we shouldn't worry about the comments made about her?
This is exactly my point!!!
Because Hillary is *strong* we shouldn't worry about the comments made about her?
pixiesis
Cathlete
>I don't know if sexism had anything to do with Hilary losing
>the nomination (certainly, it was a factor for some), but I
>find it rather disturbing that so many are so willing to
>dismiss what ARE sexist comments.
Kathryn, I do think many of the comments are clearly sexist. And there has been some clear racism towards Obama. Personally I don't dismiss the comments, but I suppose I have the rather cynical view that this kind of nonsense is almost to be expected in this situation. I have no illusions about the kind of hatred and intolerance we have in our culture, but I also have a strong faith in the goodness of people and in the inevitable progress of humanity.
I agree that sexism is totally real in our country. So is racism. But I don't see the point of being shocked or angry about it or harping on it. I used to feel paralyzed by the hurt and anger that comes from dwelling on the injustices of the world. Now I just accept that the world is imperfect and has a great deal of ignorance and injustice in it and then I try to think of something positive to do about it. For me, outrage is a waste of time and so in a way I do dismiss the dimwits who say the ignorant stuff. They have nothing interesting or new to say and aren't worth focusing on. I just try to focus on what good can come of the situation and how we can make it happen.
>the nomination (certainly, it was a factor for some), but I
>find it rather disturbing that so many are so willing to
>dismiss what ARE sexist comments.
Kathryn, I do think many of the comments are clearly sexist. And there has been some clear racism towards Obama. Personally I don't dismiss the comments, but I suppose I have the rather cynical view that this kind of nonsense is almost to be expected in this situation. I have no illusions about the kind of hatred and intolerance we have in our culture, but I also have a strong faith in the goodness of people and in the inevitable progress of humanity.
I agree that sexism is totally real in our country. So is racism. But I don't see the point of being shocked or angry about it or harping on it. I used to feel paralyzed by the hurt and anger that comes from dwelling on the injustices of the world. Now I just accept that the world is imperfect and has a great deal of ignorance and injustice in it and then I try to think of something positive to do about it. For me, outrage is a waste of time and so in a way I do dismiss the dimwits who say the ignorant stuff. They have nothing interesting or new to say and aren't worth focusing on. I just try to focus on what good can come of the situation and how we can make it happen.
JoyceMarie
Cathlete
Lauren,
Thanks for posting this. I myself believe that sexism played a part in Hillary's failure to get the nomination.
As far as eaglobo's comment about using the print out to 'wipe' with, I can't tell you how much that grossed me out. What a revolting and stupid thing to say.
Joyce
Thanks for posting this. I myself believe that sexism played a part in Hillary's failure to get the nomination.
As far as eaglobo's comment about using the print out to 'wipe' with, I can't tell you how much that grossed me out. What a revolting and stupid thing to say.
Joyce
Govtgirl
Cathlete
{i]>>Personally I think that in some ways Clinton had sexism working for her benefit and Obama had racism working for his. [/i}
Za-zing!! Nadia, I totally agree!
I consider myself Libertarian, but if I had to choose a traditional party it would be Republican. But I don't like any of the candidates. Clinton and Obama are too off-the-charts-let-me-spend-YOUR-money-because-i'm-smarter-than-you liberals, and McCain is way too wishy-washy.
Like I said before, I miss President Reagan
Za-zing!! Nadia, I totally agree!
I consider myself Libertarian, but if I had to choose a traditional party it would be Republican. But I don't like any of the candidates. Clinton and Obama are too off-the-charts-let-me-spend-YOUR-money-because-i'm-smarter-than-you liberals, and McCain is way too wishy-washy.
Like I said before, I miss President Reagan
tneah
Cathlete
Lisa...I was too young or too stupid to appreciate Ronnie Reagan, but in my DH's opinion, he was our finest ever. Seemed like a very honest and honorable man.
I personally do not care for Obama's wife,she seems very negative to me. I do not like Cindy McCain too much either for that matter. Sigh. Spouses are an important part of the presidency I think.
to appreciate Ronnie Reagan, but in my DH's opinion, he was our finest ever. Seemed like a very honest and honorable man.I personally do not care for Obama's wife,she seems very negative to me. I do not like Cindy McCain too much either for that matter. Sigh. Spouses are an important part of the presidency I think.
hiitdogs
Cathlete
Clinton and Obama are too
>off-the-charts-let-me-spend-YOUR-money-because-i'm-smarter-than-you
>liberals, and McCain is way too wishy-washy.
>
>Like I said before, I miss President Reagan
>
>
Yup, much better to have a Republican spend our money on a war that doesn't bring anything good for America. $ 700 billion could have done a lot for the American people. Our current administration is the biggest spender EVER.
I don't think Republicans can claim anymore that they are the party of small government. They sure have become the Grand Old Spending Party, let-me-spend-your-money-because-I-don't-give-a-rats-patootie-what-you-think is not exactly what I consider conservative.
I wish there was another Ronald Reagan, Republican or Democrat, I don't care, just someone who can get that bus out of the ditch, and McCain will continue the failed Bush economics and the war in Iraq.
>off-the-charts-let-me-spend-YOUR-money-because-i'm-smarter-than-you
>liberals, and McCain is way too wishy-washy.
>
>Like I said before, I miss President Reagan
>
>
Yup, much better to have a Republican spend our money on a war that doesn't bring anything good for America. $ 700 billion could have done a lot for the American people. Our current administration is the biggest spender EVER.
I don't think Republicans can claim anymore that they are the party of small government. They sure have become the Grand Old Spending Party, let-me-spend-your-money-because-I-don't-give-a-rats-patootie-what-you-think is not exactly what I consider conservative.
I wish there was another Ronald Reagan, Republican or Democrat, I don't care, just someone who can get that bus out of the ditch, and McCain will continue the failed Bush economics and the war in Iraq.
kristen
Cathlete
Those who feel there's been no sexism in response to Clinton's candidacy might find this article in the New York Times interesting. Or at least further material for use in your bathroom.
http://warner.blogs.nytimes.com/200...em&ex=1212897600&en=3149a226e69054e9&ei=5087
http://warner.blogs.nytimes.com/200...em&ex=1212897600&en=3149a226e69054e9&ei=5087
Liann
Cathlete
Kristen - THANK YOU for posting that! The inner feminist in me has just been dying over all the comments about if she wants to play with the big boys she just has to buck up and deal with all the sexist remarks. And the 'that's just the way it is in this society' type remarks. I do not think that sexism cost her the election anymore than racism got Obama the election though, I just think it shows that as a country, we still aren't ready for a woman president. I really hope that changes in the next 4 years.
Another thing I really hope to see in my lifetime is an election where we do not refer to the candidates as the black man, the white woman, and the white guy. I would love for us to get past the race and gender classifications. I understand people being excited about a woman and a black man being potential nominees, but the fact that we keep saying it like that proves that we are still focusing on the race and gender and not the individual candidates. It just bugs the heck out of me.
And one other thing... I've heard a lot of people criticizing Clinton for whining about sexism playing a role in her defeat. She didn't write that article though. Has she issued any statements whining about the boys not playing fare? I'm just curious. I hadn't heard anything directly from her, so wasn't sure if she was making it an issue. I would hate for people to start criticizing her for stuff that her supporters are saying and writing articles about.
Another thing I really hope to see in my lifetime is an election where we do not refer to the candidates as the black man, the white woman, and the white guy. I would love for us to get past the race and gender classifications. I understand people being excited about a woman and a black man being potential nominees, but the fact that we keep saying it like that proves that we are still focusing on the race and gender and not the individual candidates. It just bugs the heck out of me.
And one other thing...
I've heard a lot of people criticizing Clinton for whining about sexism playing a role in her defeat. She didn't write that article though. Has she issued any statements whining about the boys not playing fare? I'm just curious. I hadn't heard anything directly from her, so wasn't sure if she was making it an issue. I would hate for people to start criticizing her for stuff that her supporters are saying and writing articles about.I'll vote for Beavs!
I must say when November comes around I'll have "thanksgiving" that it's all over....then we all can brace for whatever the outcome. I just have to remember when things get ugly, that I live in a country where people have the right to express opinions freely.
Cheryl
I must say when November comes around I'll have "thanksgiving" that it's all over....then we all can brace for whatever the outcome. I just have to remember when things get ugly, that I live in a country where people have the right to express opinions freely.
Cheryl
toughYrun
Cathlete
I am an unrepentant, conservative woman who diagrees with 99.99% of everything Hillary Clinton stands for. (If we're going to call her just Hillary should we call the other candidates John and Barack?) When I saw the news report where Barack called the female reporter "sweetie" I felt the same discomfort and stifled anger bubble up inside as when my previous boss called me "dear". Never wanting to fall victim to the victim mentality, I have resisted accepting the notion that sexism is widespread and tsk tsk'd those women who it seemed to me would not stop complaining about it.
But man, have I had an awakening!! I am suprised at how angry I feel about the way Senator Clinton was treated and hope like anything that she has the last word however that may play out.
I am sure that no decent man or woman would have stood for the same treatment of Obama had his race been continually treated in the same vein Clinton's gender was. Yet night after night and day after day the cable news networks talking idiots apparently had no qualms making their snide, sexist jokes at not only Hillary Clinton's expense but, as far as I'm concerned, every other woman as well.
But man, have I had an awakening!! I am suprised at how angry I feel about the way Senator Clinton was treated and hope like anything that she has the last word however that may play out.
I am sure that no decent man or woman would have stood for the same treatment of Obama had his race been continually treated in the same vein Clinton's gender was. Yet night after night and day after day the cable news networks talking idiots apparently had no qualms making their snide, sexist jokes at not only Hillary Clinton's expense but, as far as I'm concerned, every other woman as well.
Stephanie0523
Cathlete
OK. I have to pop in here one more time to say that Hillary has not come out and said that she lost because of sexism, but she cried sexism throughout the entire race. As did President Clinton. I think someone else said above (maybe Carola?) that you never heard Obama cry racism!! when things didn't go his way, and technically some things said could be construed that way.
As for the news media, I watch MSNBC probably more than anyone in here. My television is constantly on the news while I'm working around the house, and in the evenings I watch every bit of election coverage they have on. I have never noticed the reporters spewing sexist remarks. And Keith Oberman and Chris Matthews are two of my very favorite correspondents. They are admittedly liberal-slanted, but I'm liberal and I love it.
And, to the person who posted above, I refer to Hillary as "Hillary" because every bit of campaign propaganda she put out had HILLARY in huge letters, not CLINTON. Maybe she is sexist???
I just think that everyone needs to cool off and quit being SO angry about Hillary's loss. The party needs to come together before November. You may not like Obama and his use of the word "sweetie," but "honey," it's gonna be a lot worse if the other guy wins...
(dusting self off and stepping off of rickety soapbox)
As for the news media, I watch MSNBC probably more than anyone in here. My television is constantly on the news while I'm working around the house, and in the evenings I watch every bit of election coverage they have on. I have never noticed the reporters spewing sexist remarks. And Keith Oberman and Chris Matthews are two of my very favorite correspondents. They are admittedly liberal-slanted, but I'm liberal and I love it.
And, to the person who posted above, I refer to Hillary as "Hillary" because every bit of campaign propaganda she put out had HILLARY in huge letters, not CLINTON. Maybe she is sexist???
I just think that everyone needs to cool off and quit being SO angry about Hillary's loss. The party needs to come together before November. You may not like Obama and his use of the word "sweetie," but "honey," it's gonna be a lot worse if the other guy wins...
(dusting self off and stepping off of rickety soapbox)