kimmie2191
Cathlete
That was my thinking Dani.
Kim
Kim
Daughters scary expirience
- Thread starter lesliemarie
- Start date
<You're a good mom so I don't have to tell you this, but right now your daughter needs your support, and she needs to see you standing up for what is right in this case. It will give her back the sense of control this boy took from her, and it will teach her the "right" thing to do in a case like this. You may want to take her with you to make the police report. I think it will help empower her against anything that might happen in the future.>
Well, said Carol!! Also, this boy needs to realize he can't victimize women."
Well, said Carol!! Also, this boy needs to realize he can't victimize women."
C
Carol_is_fit
Guest
Strange, but I didn't read A-Jock's second post as "admitting" anything. Sounded more to me like she was reiterating what she said originally. I hope you don't have kids, Argos. And if you do, I hope your daughter (or son) never has to go through anything like this. Leslie posted on here because she needed support and advice - not argumentative posts from someone who sounds as though she/he is trying to stir crap up. You're a newbie here? Not exactly a great introduction for all of us. Why don't you try it again? Are you a cop? Do you work in the legal profession? You seem to think you know a lot about it. A-Jock and Fab40 actually do work in the legal profession. I trust their posts on matters like this. I've had to file a few police reports in my time, and I've found most cops to be very caring, concerned people. If they feel you're wasting their time, they'll tell you that. If you have a legitimate concern, they'll tell you that too.
To Hotspur, I'm with Gayle on this one. I'm shaking my head at your comments as well. I have a 13 year old daughter, and I know where she is because she tells me. She goes to friends' houses by herself. I did when I was her age too. I don't think it's right at all for you to be so judgmental and try to lay a guilt trip on Leslie. That's the same type of thinking that says a woman "asked" to be raped because she was dressing for it. Shame on you. This is a 14 year girl we're talking about here who was obviously quite traumatized. She and her mother did NOTHING wrong.
Carol
To Hotspur, I'm with Gayle on this one. I'm shaking my head at your comments as well. I have a 13 year old daughter, and I know where she is because she tells me. She goes to friends' houses by herself. I did when I was her age too. I don't think it's right at all for you to be so judgmental and try to lay a guilt trip on Leslie. That's the same type of thinking that says a woman "asked" to be raped because she was dressing for it. Shame on you. This is a 14 year girl we're talking about here who was obviously quite traumatized. She and her mother did NOTHING wrong.
Carol
Wow, some fiesty chickies in here! I guess I should have remained a lurker instead of a poster!
Actually, I'm an attorney and went to a top-10 law school. Does that establish my credentials sufficiently for you? Or would you like my LSAT score and law school transcript? So I think I know a little about the law...
Let's see, I don't have time to respond to every attack individually, but here a few rebuttals: A-jock explicitly agreed with Hotspur that the woman's daughter should not have gone over to the house alone (though Leslie subsequently gave us some more info on that). If anyone here cannot see A-jock agreed with Hotspur, then it is beyond my ability to communicate that fact. "Res ipsa loquitur" "the thing speaks for itself" (to borrow a phrase from tort law).
Secondly, my essential point was and is that what the boy did in his own home does not constitute "indecedent exposure." Somebody above said it did in Missouri or somewhere. All right, then I repeat: please cite for me that provision of your state's criminal code that defines the elements of indecent exposure as, inter alia, exposing oneself in one's own home. Heck, it's possible, but the burden of proof is on you (even though this is a criminal provision, you don't have to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt).
Thirdly, I don't know where that unwarranted, hostile remark about me having children came from. I'm not sure what relevance that fact bears on the discussion and what my comments have to do with it. Maybe I should say I hope you're not an attorney--you have to be a little more careful about how you read things.
I'm outa here for tonight. Have a good weekend, ladies!
Actually, I'm an attorney and went to a top-10 law school. Does that establish my credentials sufficiently for you? Or would you like my LSAT score and law school transcript? So I think I know a little about the law...
Let's see, I don't have time to respond to every attack individually, but here a few rebuttals: A-jock explicitly agreed with Hotspur that the woman's daughter should not have gone over to the house alone (though Leslie subsequently gave us some more info on that). If anyone here cannot see A-jock agreed with Hotspur, then it is beyond my ability to communicate that fact. "Res ipsa loquitur" "the thing speaks for itself" (to borrow a phrase from tort law).
Secondly, my essential point was and is that what the boy did in his own home does not constitute "indecedent exposure." Somebody above said it did in Missouri or somewhere. All right, then I repeat: please cite for me that provision of your state's criminal code that defines the elements of indecent exposure as, inter alia, exposing oneself in one's own home. Heck, it's possible, but the burden of proof is on you (even though this is a criminal provision, you don't have to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt).
Thirdly, I don't know where that unwarranted, hostile remark about me having children came from. I'm not sure what relevance that fact bears on the discussion and what my comments have to do with it. Maybe I should say I hope you're not an attorney--you have to be a little more careful about how you read things.
I'm outa here for tonight. Have a good weekend, ladies!
Leslie, pleasse consider at least talking to the police about this. As was mentioned, at least get a complaint on file. The police will not laugh, they want to help and have a lot of training in helping in situations like this. What this boy did was not normal. It needs to be stopped if possible. Although your daughter has been shaken by this she was able to tell you, he may find younger girls easier to intimidate.
I'll keep you and your family in my prayers.
Ann
I'll keep you and your family in my prayers.
Ann
Well darn, you made me go researching. Let me say once again that I am not a legal expert in an way, shape, or form. I only know what I have to report in my state, which gets fuzzy sometimes.
<Secondly, my essential point was and is that what the boy did in his own home does not constitute "indecedent exposure." Somebody above said it did in Missouri or somewhere.>
Let me clarify... I did not define this incident as "indecent exposure", but rather, it MAY be considered "sexual misconduct". Be careful how you read things.
See RsMO Chapter 566.093
http://www.moga.state.mo.us/statutes/chapters/chap566.htm
<Secondly, my essential point was and is that what the boy did in his own home does not constitute "indecedent exposure." Somebody above said it did in Missouri or somewhere.>
Let me clarify... I did not define this incident as "indecent exposure", but rather, it MAY be considered "sexual misconduct". Be careful how you read things.
See RsMO Chapter 566.093
http://www.moga.state.mo.us/statutes/chapters/chap566.htm
Leslie did nothing wrong. In fact, from reading Leslie's posts in the past - she is a very caring, wonderful mother. Leslie - you have endured so much from what I've read in your posts - I don't believe you deserve the abuse you've received from some on this forum. the most of us - A Jock, Carol and others know you and know YOU ARE NOT at fault. God bless you and your daughter - give her the love she needs now! You are in my thoughts
Shame on those who turned this into a something it wasn't meant to be!
Shame on those who turned this into a something it wasn't meant to be!
T
trevor
Guest
Analyzing this doesn't take a law degree unless you want to argue about which state has which law yadda yadda yadda.
My take:
1. For the most part Leslie did nothing wrong because no one should expect that kind of treatment from another person. However, given her daughter's feelings about this boy, I think it was at least semi-poor judgement to allow her to go over there at all. You either like the boy or you don't like the boy. Regardless of if he has a gift for her or not. She doesn't like him, so she should not be sending out conflicting signals by going to his house. And once at his house "God" must have been watching, but He sure didn't help out!
2. The kid is 14 years old so I do not think this automatically makes him a future pervert. Kids that age act out sexually, no? The bigger picture here is the fact that he learned that behavior from someone else....television, movies, friends, parents perhaps. He needs to be straightened out as to how to act no doubt. And he is heading down the wrong path perhaps but let's not automatically call him a pervert. He's 14 and not 18. 14 year olds tend to be not the brightest creatures, especially with common sense and a realization of how all actions have consequences.
3. I'll save my comments on lawyers and the "law". I have nothing good to say about either so I will let it die.
Good luck with this Leslie. Just keep your daughter away from him. And I am sorry this happened to her.
T.
My take:
1. For the most part Leslie did nothing wrong because no one should expect that kind of treatment from another person. However, given her daughter's feelings about this boy, I think it was at least semi-poor judgement to allow her to go over there at all. You either like the boy or you don't like the boy. Regardless of if he has a gift for her or not. She doesn't like him, so she should not be sending out conflicting signals by going to his house. And once at his house "God" must have been watching, but He sure didn't help out!
2. The kid is 14 years old so I do not think this automatically makes him a future pervert. Kids that age act out sexually, no? The bigger picture here is the fact that he learned that behavior from someone else....television, movies, friends, parents perhaps. He needs to be straightened out as to how to act no doubt. And he is heading down the wrong path perhaps but let's not automatically call him a pervert. He's 14 and not 18. 14 year olds tend to be not the brightest creatures, especially with common sense and a realization of how all actions have consequences.
3. I'll save my comments on lawyers and the "law". I have nothing good to say about either so I will let it die.
Good luck with this Leslie. Just keep your daughter away from him. And I am sorry this happened to her.
T.
Hotspur meant no offense....actually it was an honest point of view. If we tell people only what they want to hear, how does that help? I am not surpised at the reaction of some of the forum members. Opposing points of view usually get this kind of reaction...I know from personal experience.
My interpretation of Hotspur's post is that it's talking about taking personal responsibility. If Leslie's daughter did not go over there, the incident could not have happened. Do I think either Leslie or her daughter were at fault for what happened......NO, of course not. These are teenager's we're talking about and having raised one myself and counseled several, I can tell you they still think like children while their bodies are going through rapid development sexually. That's why I think sex education is so critical, but that's another story. I have to believe this boys behavior is not mainstream....it was perverse and if there is not some sort of intervention, he will progress into more perverse actions.
I believe Leslie, via her comments, already realizes it was a mistake for her daughter to go to this boy's home. But, who would have expected something like this to occur? Not me if it was my daughter.
And maybe this kid has already done something like this already. Maybe, the fact he kept trying to coerce her to his home means he knows the law. Kids have all kinds of information at their disposal via the internet....I wouldn't put it past him.
Maybe this isn't breaking the law. I think it's a criminal act but I'm not a lawyer. I agree with Dani. This should be reported to someone, even if it's the counselor at the school this boy attends.
My interpretation of Hotspur's post is that it's talking about taking personal responsibility. If Leslie's daughter did not go over there, the incident could not have happened. Do I think either Leslie or her daughter were at fault for what happened......NO, of course not. These are teenager's we're talking about and having raised one myself and counseled several, I can tell you they still think like children while their bodies are going through rapid development sexually. That's why I think sex education is so critical, but that's another story. I have to believe this boys behavior is not mainstream....it was perverse and if there is not some sort of intervention, he will progress into more perverse actions.
I believe Leslie, via her comments, already realizes it was a mistake for her daughter to go to this boy's home. But, who would have expected something like this to occur? Not me if it was my daughter.
And maybe this kid has already done something like this already. Maybe, the fact he kept trying to coerce her to his home means he knows the law. Kids have all kinds of information at their disposal via the internet....I wouldn't put it past him.
Maybe this isn't breaking the law. I think it's a criminal act but I'm not a lawyer. I agree with Dani. This should be reported to someone, even if it's the counselor at the school this boy attends.
T
trevor
Guest
Amen to your "taking personal responsibility" comment Candi. Our society needs alot more of that. Having said that I reiterate that I feel Leslie should not beat herself up over this.
T.
T.
Yep.. scary stuff. Also amen to the "taking personal responsiblity:. You really have to know where your kids are and who there friends are. In general I wouldn't say things are worse than in the 70s. A few kids are starting earlier but the big difference s girls pleasing boys ala Clinton.
When my son was in 7th grade a girl gave to 2 boys at a dance. In another town the same thing - so they banned having lights off a dances. Amazingly enough a parent in another town was annoyed that the school told them about it and said it was her daughters right to do what she wanted.... TRUE story... just a tad wacked out parents.
The weird thing about all this is it still is a man's world... in this day and age.. sad
When my son was in 7th grade a girl gave to 2 boys at a dance. In another town the same thing - so they banned having lights off a dances. Amazingly enough a parent in another town was annoyed that the school told them about it and said it was her daughters right to do what she wanted.... TRUE story... just a tad wacked out parents.
The weird thing about all this is it still is a man's world... in this day and age.. sad
T
trevor
Guest
I agree, wacked out parents who haven't taught the daughters or sons properly. Also the girls doing this, are guns being held to their heads? They must not be able to think for themselves....again the parents' sound like part of the problem. And you are right, many girls and boys think oral sex is like shaking hands and Clinton was a big part of that. But so is today's media.
It's hardly a man's world so I disagree there. Women are running the show more than I think they realize, some of the consequences being as detrimental to society as what men have done over the years. I can give examples but that's another topic and not relevant here IMHO.
T.
It's hardly a man's world so I disagree there. Women are running the show more than I think they realize, some of the consequences being as detrimental to society as what men have done over the years. I can give examples but that's another topic and not relevant here IMHO.
T.
H
Hotspur
Guest
THANK YOU, CANDIK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You practically read my mind. I wasn't surprised I got flamed for my opinion. I agree with you about teenagers and their bodies. At least like Trevor said he's not 18 or older. If he was older than 17, I would've told Leslie to call the cops STAT. There's a BIG difference between a 14 yrs old and a 18 yrs old.
Carol, I personally don't care what you say because I don't care for your opinion and never did. I didn't put Leslie down. I didn't say she was a bad mother. A lot of good mothers make poor judgements sometimes. I'm not crazy about your 13 yrs old daughter hanging out with older guys but that is your problem. Also, what makes you think your daughter is 100% honest with you? I was a honest kid but never 100% honest and neither was most of my friends. It does not make us bad people. We just liked doing whatever we want. I personally never had a problem with an idiot flashing himself at me or touching me where it's not mutual so I can't tell you about that. Us parents know their children very well but not 100% well especially when they hit the teens and puberty. That is a fact. I know my children will lie to me once in a while to get away with something. You could be an exceptional parent and still have a screwed up child. I've met a few people who came from BIG TIME SCREWED UP parents and they are wonderful human beings. It does not matter a lot of times where you come from. Some of you may disagree with me which I do not care. I'll just bore you all with my opinions.
Anyway, I have people to do and things to see so TA DA!
P.S-- Do not take my joke so personally!
Carol, I personally don't care what you say because I don't care for your opinion and never did. I didn't put Leslie down. I didn't say she was a bad mother. A lot of good mothers make poor judgements sometimes. I'm not crazy about your 13 yrs old daughter hanging out with older guys but that is your problem. Also, what makes you think your daughter is 100% honest with you? I was a honest kid but never 100% honest and neither was most of my friends. It does not make us bad people. We just liked doing whatever we want. I personally never had a problem with an idiot flashing himself at me or touching me where it's not mutual so I can't tell you about that. Us parents know their children very well but not 100% well especially when they hit the teens and puberty. That is a fact. I know my children will lie to me once in a while to get away with something. You could be an exceptional parent and still have a screwed up child. I've met a few people who came from BIG TIME SCREWED UP parents and they are wonderful human beings. It does not matter a lot of times where you come from. Some of you may disagree with me which I do not care. I'll just bore you all with my opinions.
Anyway, I have people to do and things to see so TA DA!
P.S-- Do not take my joke so personally!
ha Trevor.. Yes a man's world was just a comment about - how do I put this (with out getting too graphic) that this was more a male pleasing behavior and that this is what young girls are doing. Yes noone is putting a gun to their head. Agree it is LARGELY parents fault. I think by about 2nd grade you can tell who will be the kids.. the ones the mothers are encouraging to look older "my daughter is 4 going on 16.. free rein on clothes... mothers living the lives through the daughters social status"
ALso another funny thing is looking how the middle school girls dress... The girls well developed on top with tiny shorts (rolled up) and tiny shirts - while the boys shorts.
Funny seems like preppy is coming back --- hmmm will be interesting to see how this plays out
ALso another funny thing is looking how the middle school girls dress... The girls well developed on top with tiny shorts (rolled up) and tiny shirts - while the boys shorts.
Funny seems like preppy is coming back --- hmmm will be interesting to see how this plays out
lesliemarie
Cathlete
I am so sorry I got this group in an uproar!! I knew this boy for 6 years and was a real decent boy when first known him, as for my kids I keep a tight rein on them, I do let them go places on the condition that I know what they are doing where they are going and who they are with, if I don't know them then I don't let them go, I also have to know where the kids they are hanging out with lives so if I need to get them before their time is up I can find them or if they don't come home at the specified time then I know where to look for them. I believe in safety with kids, but as my childs psychologist told me I need to let my teen daughter grow up. He also told me and instructed me on how I do it. I tend to keep my kids close by if I can at all times. My kids are everything to me and no I don't want to live my life through my kids at all. I believe in letting the kids make their own choices in life and being there for them, My 15 year old wants to be a veterinarian and I am not stopping her, that is her choice.
Again I am so sorry. yes it may be my fault and so be it I am sorry.
Again I am so sorry. yes it may be my fault and so be it I am sorry.
C
Carol_is_fit
Guest
Leslie, you have NOTHING for which to apologize. You came on here to share your experience and gain support, and for the most part I think you did. There are ALWAYS going to be people who think they can tell others how to raise their own kids. Ignore them. COMPLETELY. Especially on public message boards. You don't have to answer to anyone about your kids!!! They don't know you, and as such have absolutely no right to judge you or your parenting skills. It sounds to me like you're doing the best any of us can do. You can't keep your kids in a bubble. All you can do is give them the best foundation you can, and hope and pray they remember what you taught them. Keeping the lines of communication open is very, very important, as I'm sure you already know. They need to know they can come to you with ANYTHING, even it's something frightening or uncomfortable for them. Obviously, you and your daughter have the kind of relationship I have with mine, or she wouldn't have come to you with this incident. PLEASE don't apologize. You have done nothing wrong. People on here will always have differing opinions, and they won't always express them in the most mature ways. Whatever. The only behavior for which you are responsible is your own, and their words have NO power over you unless you give them that power.
How is your daughter today?
Carol
How is your daughter today?
Carol
C
Carol_is_fit
Guest
Here's an idea. Let's each raise our kids the way we best see fit, and not give a rat's behind what strangers on a public message board think of it. What do you all think???? Sounds like good advice to me. I'm taking it. Time to move on. Words only have power over you if you give them that power, and you all already know my take on THAT issue ... LOL!!
Carol
Carol
kimmie2191
Cathlete
Leslie,
What Carol said.
Take Care and I hope your daughter is doing well.
Kim
What Carol said.
Take Care and I hope your daughter is doing well.
Kim