jamaicagirl
Cathlete
I to am a proud Republican!! I think Boxer and Pelosi should be shown the exit door - hehehehehhee
Barbara Boxer
- Thread starter baylian
- Start date
morningstar
Cathlete
I fully agree with Barbara Boxer, actually. The word "Ma'am" is not analagous the word "Sir" in its connotations. "Sir" shows respect, usually from a person of lower rank to a person of higher rank. "Ma'am" has a different connotation entirely, as it only seems to refer to a woman, not a woman of a superior rank, and the respect is up for grabs. He wouldn't have spoken to a male Senator that way, and she shouldn't have had to correct him- he should have known better. (By the way, as a Canadian, I don't vote for either the Democrats or the Republicans!)
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macska7
Cathlete
I agree with you.
morningstar
Cathlete
There is power in the use of titles. Why, as women, are we willing to give our power away so easily?
workingToBeFit
Cathlete
this was not disrespect!
I'd like to agree and add to what Baylian wrote, as a family member with several career Air Force relatives, that the Brig. General absolutely was NOT disrespecting her. He was following standard military terms of respect. I was taught that for the Air Force, one always is safe to address anyone at a higher rank as "Sir" or "M'am." If someone is at a lower rank, it is ok to use "Mr." or "Miss." If you watch the video you will notice he addressed all the male senators as Sir. None of them objected! It is also of course ok to use a person's title.
IMHO, she has no clue what military protocols are and she needs to learn them to work in her job appropriately. While she "worked so hard" to become a senator (as she said), she still needs to do some studying.
I'd like to agree and add to what Baylian wrote, as a family member with several career Air Force relatives, that the Brig. General absolutely was NOT disrespecting her. He was following standard military terms of respect. I was taught that for the Air Force, one always is safe to address anyone at a higher rank as "Sir" or "M'am." If someone is at a lower rank, it is ok to use "Mr." or "Miss." If you watch the video you will notice he addressed all the male senators as Sir. None of them objected! It is also of course ok to use a person's title.
IMHO, she has no clue what military protocols are and she needs to learn them to work in her job appropriately. While she "worked so hard" to become a senator (as she said), she still needs to do some studying.
I don't see in this case where anyone was asked to give away power. Walsh addressed Sen. David Vitter as "sir" in the same hearing, so there wasn't any inequality.
As someone who's worked in male dominated fields for more than 20 years (most of that in a superisory role) I think there are better ways to garner respect and power than the way Boxer did. It was not appropriate in that setting, IMO.
I've had a few former military men on my staff and the "sir/ma'am" use is pretty heavily ingrained.
workingToBeFit
Cathlete
P.S. did she show respect?
I also would add, how did she show respect for him? In the TV video I saw (and I'm sure they edited it), she never called him Sir, or Brig., General, or by name, or by *anything* at all - she just asked him questions without ever recognizing his personhood or professional identify. How is that respectful on her part? He "worked hard" to get into his position as well. This whole thing just makes her look bad, in every manner, IMO.
I also would add, how did she show respect for him? In the TV video I saw (and I'm sure they edited it), she never called him Sir, or Brig., General, or by name, or by *anything* at all - she just asked him questions without ever recognizing his personhood or professional identify. How is that respectful on her part? He "worked hard" to get into his position as well. This whole thing just makes her look bad, in every manner, IMO.
ITA with you!
hiitdogs
Cathlete
I agree with that! I found what Barbara Boxer did unncessary. But I don't think it is such a big deal either!
I have yelled at people to quit call me ma'am. Sometimes it is just a matter of "you said but I heard".
That being said, Baylian, I don't have a problem with your postings bashing Democrats. You have never posted anything remotely derogatory about Republicans and I believe you wouldn't have posted this if it was a Republican, so it does give the appearance of being partisan. So let's at least call it what it is.
I don't think that what Sen. Boxer said can even be be remotely compared to the venom that Rush Limbaugh spews about people on an ongoing basis but hey, maybe that's the liberal speaking
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Beavs
Cathlete
Dude here!FWIW, I tend to call everybody "Dude".
LauraMax
Cathlete
That is absolutely a direct quote. And yet nowhere do I see a personal attack on any conservative, not even Limbaugh. Nowhere do I see that I wrote "Limbaugh is a blowhard who thinks he's king of the world." Nowhere do I see "Palin is a whiny, spoiled brat who willfully & consciously put her family in the international public eye & then throws childish hissy fits whenever someone says something she doesn't like." Nowhere do I see myself saying this forum should be left & liberal thinking only. Actually, if anything, the post you copied & pasted it was a compliment to two conservatives (Powell & Bloomberg). You are so funny--you remind me of Kelly on RHNY. You post quotes from me & then try accuse me of things that are completely unrelated to them.
You, however, cannot post anything regarding politics without bashing Democrats. You simply cannot help yourself, can you?
But you know, it's behavior like yours & Limbaughs that have the Republicans at 28% approval & Democrats at 68% approval. So allow me to thank you for that.
As far as the other stuff goes, "sir" & "ma'am" might be common usage in the military, but "Senator" & "Congressman" is common usage in the Capital Building. The Brig Gen & any other military person SHOULD respect that. Those criticizing Boxer can call her rude & say what she said was not necessary, but we're still missing context.
Barbara Boxer has been serving this country as a Senator for 17 years. She deserves respect as such. A Brigadier General is the lowest ranking general in the US Army. This guy happens to be a Brig Gen in the Army Corp of Engineers. I hear that's a really dangerous job. Just sayin.
So I've looked for the full exchange & big surprise, I can't find it. All I could find was a brief synopsis that said after repeated questioning regarding why New Orleans had still not received the assistance it needed after Katrina & not receiving any answers AT ALL, the YouTube exchange ocurred. Hmmmmm. Interesting...........
carres1973
Cathlete
In the military, you are taught to address higher ranked (officers) women as ma'am and men as sir. You can call those lower in rank than you by name but those above you (non-commissioned officers) must be addressed by their rank and last name. The General was just doing as he was trained to do. Senator Boxer could have corrected him nicely...or just took the title of ma'am in that situation as him showing respect, which he was.
It actually took me a long time to "de-program" myself after leaving the Air Force! I used "sir" and "ma'am" all the time and also military dates and times.
Carrie
Prior to his current post, Walsh served as Commander for the Army Corp of Engineer's Gulf Division in Baghdad. That IS a dangerous job.
baylian
Cathlete
Umm . . yep . . I would have to agree totally!
LauraMax
Cathlete
See, that's part of my point. I've worked for elected officials for more than 15 years. I'm programmed to call them by their titles......."councilman" or "senator" or "freeholder" or whatever. Our newer elected officials insist I call them by their first name, & I can't. I just can't. It's not part of the governmental culture.
Another example--if you go to court, you will never hear an attny call a judge "sir." It's always "your honor." Always.
pixiesis
Cathlete
I see both sides here (and I normally like Barbara Boxer). From the short clip I saw, it does appear that he was being respectful. On the other hand, he is on her turf, and "when in Rome"...
"Ma'am" can be used in a rude way, and some women just get ticked off when someone addresses them that way. I don't, but I do think I can tell when it's being used respectfully (by s/o in the military or a Southerner for example) or disrespectfully.
Amy
"Ma'am" can be used in a rude way, and some women just get ticked off when someone addresses them that way. I don't, but I do think I can tell when it's being used respectfully (by s/o in the military or a Southerner for example) or disrespectfully.
Amy