Are things really THAT bad??

[Govtgirl]

I get the feeling that if a martian dropped down on earth today and listened to the news, they would think that we were all starving, roaming the streets in desperation, wondering where our next meal was going to come from. I hear so many times that the economy is reeling, and things are as bad as they were during the Depression.

Yet I go outside and see the parking lots full at the restaurants, and the shopping mall is packed. People are shelling out money for botox, plastic surgery, video games, computers, cable TV, cell phones, and iPhones, and I've yet to see a breadline or someone on the street selling pencils. My parents grew up during the Depression, I've heard firsthand what it was like. This ain't it.

Yeah, I've seen my 401K value drop, I know there are layoffs, and even Starbucks is closing stores. But, c'mon, there really WERE too many Starbucks, I would literally see 2 on every block. There comes a point where things go from prosperous to gluttonous, and maybe we all just got used to too much stuff.

The economy isn't as good as it was, but it will get better, it always does. This is a downturn, but we are still the most prosperous, well-fed, well-entertained, pampered human beings on the planet, and all I hear is how horrible things are. Are we that wussy? Sorry, I just had to vent after turning on the news this morning!

 

[teddy16410]

I agree that it will get better..However YES- for many people in my family it IS "THAT BAD" and getting worse. I think we need to remember that although some of us may not be horrendously touched by the down turn...go talk to the thousands upon thousands that are out of jobs, facing furloughs, facing retirement in a very short period of time without any funds now.

I have an MBA friend in CA that IS going to have to go to work at a convenience store to eat...forget a mortgage payment/car payment- those things are already gone... My sister is one more required day off from losing her condo, my mom is facing stage 4 cancer & after working two jobs for 45 years is a Meals on Wheels recipient... My dad who has beeen retired for 8 years is back in a 30 hr week job....

I appreciate that you personally may not be seeing the worst of it but to question the reality of it I think is a bit naive. I mean no disrespect to you...and personally I AM VERY FORTUNATE as well - I suppose my circle of friends & family includes people in other walks of life. ~ Again- I mean no disrespect to you at all -
but yes it IS that bad if you happen to be the person who cant afford to begin to think about things like STS, CLX, gym memberships, health food stores, & protein shakes let alone weekly groceries, electric & gas payments etc.... .

Time for those not directly affected to count our blessings & maybe even go assist others who arent as fortunate.

I get the feeling that if a martian dropped down on earth today and listened to the news, they would think that we were all starving, roaming the streets in desperation, wondering where our next meal was going to come from. I hear so many tmes that the economy is reeling, and things are as bad as they were during the depression.

Yet I go outside and see the parking lots full at the restaurants, and the shopping mall is packed. People are shelling out money for botox, plastic surgery, video games, computers, cable TV, cell phones, and iPhones, and I've yet to see a breadline or someone on the street selling pencils. My parents grew up during the depression, I've heard what it was like. This ain't it.

Yeah, I've seen my 401K value drop, I know there are layoffs, and even Starbucks is closing stores. But, c'mon, there really WERE too many Starbucks, I would literally see 2 on every block. There comes a point where things go from prosperous to gluttonous, and maybe we all just got used to too much stuff.

The economy isn't as good as it was, but it will get better, it always does. This is a downturn, but we are still the most prosperous, well-fed, well-entertained, pampered human beings on the planet, and all I hear is how horrible things are. Are we that wussy? Sorry, I just had to vent after turning on the news this morning!

 

[Gayle]

I agree with Traci that for some, particularly those who were at or near the poverty level when the economy was good, that it really is THAT bad. Lots of states are cutting essential services to these folks as well. Also, some parts of the country and job sectors are feeling it a lot harder than others.

However, I also completely agree with you on this statement, Govtgirl:

There comes a point where things go from prosperous to gluttonous, and maybe we all just got used to too much stuff.

This may sound bad, but I can't watch the national news lately because every report is so grave and depressing...I'm not sticking my head in the sand...just trying to preserve my sanity for the moment.

 

[teddy16410]

I agree with Traci that for some, particularly those who were at or near the poverty level when the economy was good, that it really is THAT bad. Lots of states are cutting essential services to these folks as well. Also, some parts of the country and job sectors are feeling it a lot harder than others.

However, I also completely agree with you on this statement, Govtgirl:



This may sound bad, but I can't watch the national news lately because every report is so grave and depressing...I'm not sticking my head in the sand...just trying to preserve my sanity for the moment.

Gayle & Govtgirl... I am probably the last living breathing polyana on the planet... ITA that many people - including myself - needed a wake up call... I also am one who cant watch the news much anymore..
My point was simply that to not be a part of the doom & gloom doesnt mean we pretend it doesnt exist & that it isnt changing the lives of many thousands of people who were not guilty of living beyond their means.

I agree that wallowing doesnt change it- I just interpreted the OP as saying... IS IT REAL? .... Not asking how to avoid getting caught up in it

 

[Gayle]

My point was simply that to not be a part of the doom & gloom doesnt mean we pretend it doesnt exist & that it isnt changing the lives of many thousands of people who were not guilty of living beyond their means.

Hi Traci - I'm totally with you on this. I hope things start to bounce back quickly for your family and friends who are having a hard time.

 

[Govtgirl]

Maybe I shouldn't have vented, and like I said, I know the economy is going through a downturn, but this is NOT the Great Depression again like the news is trying to tell us. That's what I meant, and I dont' want to start any arguments, serisously! I do know that no matter how good things are in any given time, there will be people who will be having a hard time. That is life. And some people's situations are not the economy's fault, there are happening because of poor decision making, lack of planning, and in some cases plain bad luck.

My mother lives on a fixed income, has absolutely no retirement savings, has rotten health, and if she weren't getting Medicare she'd be in a world of hurt. But, she never excerised a day in her life, would eat a pound of chocolate in a sitting, spent $$ like there was no tomorrow, and never saved a penny or planned for retirement.

I actually meant my post in an *upbeat* way, and I don't think I'm naive. Americans are still very prosperous, even now, we still have it pretty darn good overall.

 

[LauraMax]

Yes & no. I went to a HUD mtg yesterday & one of the agenda items was literally that the real estate market had "bottomed out." According to them, this is a good thing b/c the market will start improving.

The GDP is down 3.8% today, but supposedly that's not such a bad thing either b/c experts were predicting 5-6%.

But I admit I'm thankful every day that I have a job that's somewhat secure, & that pays my living expenses w/a few dollars left over.

 

[Liann]

Maybe I shouldn't have vented, and like I said, I know the economy is going through a downturn, but this is NOT the Great Depression again like the news is trying to tell us.

I agree that things are very tough on many people right now, but I also agree that this is nothing like the "Great Depression" that our grandparents told us about. I haven't seen any bread lines either or gas lines. What I do see if people lined up to buy whatever crap they can find at Circuit City for a good deal and I guarantee that the grocery stores will still be full of shoppers this weekend. If I didn't watch the news at all (which honestly I rarely do - I prefer online), I wouldn't even know there was a problem - UNTIL, my company goes bust, I lose my job, can't pay my mortgage and things spiral out of control. Then my perspective would obviously change.

 

[buffettgirl]

My mom lived through the depression. Her dad had a good, secure job and the hardest thing about it for her was that she couldn't take flying lessions. My MIL had a very different depression, with little food and expense cutting where ever possible. I guess the answer to this question is which side of the fence you are sitting on.

 

[chefkate]

ita, govtgirl! i do feel fot those who are honestly suffering right now. but i am sick of hearing about people foreclosing on their houses when they doing plenty of other extravagant things! if you cant pay your mortgage you have no business making puchases on things that arent necessities or taking extravagant vacations. we have relatives like this and it drives me nuts.

 

[JeanneMarie]

While I agree that we're not in the throes of anything like The Great Depression, it IS pretty dire for a LOT of people.

I am fortunate as well, and count my many blessing every day, but I do not know one single person who hasn't been negatively affected by the state of the economy.

And I know you're not trying to start anything, and I'm not either, but I do think it's a bit disingenuous to downplay what's happening to most people. It's serious, and it's life altering. I'm a very positive, upbeat person, and always try to see the good side and be optomistic, but at the same time what we're all going through is reality.

 

[pixiesis]

For us, things are finally looking up financially and for once in many years, I feel somewhat secure. So it's hard to relate to all the suffering going on. That said, I believe it's real. I've heard vivid descriptions of the Great Depression from my grandparents, and one of my favorite novels is The Grapes of Wrath. Of course it can't be like it was then because everything has changed so much. We did become more materialistic and greedy, credit card debt is out of control, and it's good overall that we are being forced to grow up and learn to do something with our free time that doesn't involve shopping and consuming.

But I do think there's another side to it. Poverty is timeless, and the suffering of those who have lost everything really isn't that different from the suffering of the poor and homeless during the Great Depression. It's just as bad. My thoughts and prayers are will all of you here who have been hurt. I think we're headed for better days and that these kinds of things are inevitable--it's just too bad that it has to be so painful before it can get better.

Amy

 

[dss62467]

Yeah, I'm saying it's that bad and it's getting worse. It's good that people who haven't been laid off are spending and they need to keep spending what they can, but I think everyone is learning some responsibility. We're finding out more and more how dishonest the extremely wealthy have been and hopefully that will bring about some much needed change in the world.

I'm optimistic, but scared. I'm scared for my ex - who lost his job in September, and my friend who lost his last week. Nobody in my bank is getting a pay increase this year, but I'm thankful we're getting 70% of our normal annual bonuses. I'm grateful our bank's management are conservative and we didn't get caught up in the financial crisis - but we did get boned by the Madoff scheme, because we lent to many of the investors who lost everything.

It's affecting the whole world and I just wish there was a quick fix.

 

[Beavs]

I think much of it has to do with information bombardment. You can't even step into a rest room or a doctors office without a tv on...there's the web...PDAs...etc etc Then there is the appalling ignorance of history. You would think tough times have never befallen this country before. They have...and they will again and people will do what they have always done, find a way to carry on the best they can with what they have.

 

[teddy16410]

I get a little annoyed when someone who is not all effected by what is happening thinks the rest of us are just whinning about nothing.

I agree parkerCP as well as the assumption that EVERYONE on the planet losing their houses have been irresponsible.... I find blanket judgements fascinating. Not saying that people who have posted their thoughts here are making blanket judgements- certainly some do feel that way- but in general...some people who are not being affected in any shape or form are making the assumptions - they've been voiced in some of my business circles...

 

[jonahnah]

I absolutely see changes in spending patterns.

Our local library is reporting that their lending is up something like 40% over last year. (That tells me people aren't buying books or movies or even renting movies like they used to). When I go the vet, I don't see anybody else in the waiting room anymore. I used to see at least one other animal waiting for their appt after mine, not anymore...

Local upscale restaurants are complaining that their business is down, while the pizza parlor down the street is booming. The gas station in our town that historically had the highest prices never has more than 1 or 2 cars there at a time, (often none!) but the cheapest place located a mile down the road has a line waiting for gas. (Even though prices have fallen)
The lines at Starbucks are a LOT shorter!

At DH's company, among those let go last week were executives w/ 25 years experience (VPs).

This recession will get worse as the job losses trickle down even more.
So, even if it's not the Great Depression, it's a lot worse than most of us have ever lived through. Like others have posted, I feel awful for those who've lost their jobs or their homes. I can't imagine the stress they are feeling!

 

[SirenSongWoman]

Things are very bad over here. And I'm all out of ideas.

 

[PhyllisG]

We have our own business and sales are down dramatically. NYC just announced they are laying off 26,000! Bd. of Educ workers--mostly teachers. I see that Catapillar laid off 20,000 and the list goes on and on. Wall St. workers have been hit hard also. I see right here on this Forum that people had to cancel their STS preorders because they needed the money. I have read of foreclosures, job losses and paycuts right here. It is bad and my husband who is an economist says it will get worse before it gets better. Anyone see 60 Minutes on Sunday. DHL closed their plant in Wilmington and so many lost their jobs with nothing to replace them with. The only reason it is not the Great Depression is because we have more protections in place. We bailed out the banks so they wouldn't fail and increased the FDIC insurance. There are unemployment benefits and food stamps in place. All of which were not there in the Depression. But what happens to these people when their unemployment benefits end and their house forecloses. This is a rough time for many no matter how you look at it.

 

[bonvivant]

My parents grew up during the Depression, I've heard firsthand what it was like. This ain't it.

Although my parents didn't grow up during the Depression, ITA.

But I do think there's another side to it. Poverty is timeless, and the suffering of those who have lost everything really isn't that different from the suffering of the poor and homeless during the Great Depression. It's just as bad. My thoughts and prayers are will all of you here who have been hurt. I think we're headed for better days and that these kinds of things are inevitable--it's just too bad that it has to be so painful before it can get better.

True. Wealthier people are largely insulated from the problems of this economy. That was true of The Depression as well.

The only reason it is not the Great Depression is because we have more protections in place. We bailed out the banks so they wouldn't fail and increased the FDIC insurance.

This is true to an extent. The protections put in place during the Depression like FDIC, UI, SSI, etc. are preventing a total collapse. However, there were some distinct differences during the Depression that do not mirror our current financial problems. The Depression was the result of a series of events some preventable and others not. After the crash in '29, people and businesses panicked causing banks and others businesses to go under. Harding ignored this saying the market would correct itself. It probably would have eventually, many many years down the line. Unfortunaely, worldwide droughts and a subsequent famine made things worse. It was at this point things really got bad and people began to eat anything they could find or starve to death. There's a big difference between not being able to eat because you have no money and not eating because there is no food. Right now, we're dealing with people who have no money to eat. I doubt we'll reach the levels of being unable to feed people because of food shortages. Even the differences in technology between now and then makes a huge difference in our lives.

I know people are suffering. I know this is difficult. But we have to understand our lives are comparatively better than those during the Depression. And even if it were, they survived it. We can, too.

 

[dorothyrd]

We have our own business and sales are down dramatically. NYC just announced they are laying off 26,000! Bd. of Educ workers--mostly teachers. I see that Catapillar laid off 20,000 and the list goes on and on. Wall St. workers have been hit hard also. I see right here on this Forum that people had to cancel their STS preorders because they needed the money. I have read of foreclosures, job losses and paycuts right here. It is bad and my husband who is an economist says it will get worse before it gets better. Anyone see 60 Minutes on Sunday. DHL closed their plant in Wilmington and so many lost their jobs with nothing to replace them with. The only reason it is not the Great Depression is because we have more protections in place. We bailed out the banks so they wouldn't fail and increased the FDIC insurance. There are unemployment benefits and food stamps in place. All of which were not there in the Depression. But what happens to these people when their unemployment benefits end and their house forecloses. This is a rough time for many no matter how you look at it.

I personally know that Caterpillar offered early retirement to quite a few people and they are counted in that 20,000. That was offered last fall as cut back measures. One accounting department had ALL their people take the early retirement, which left them stuck. So even though the lay-offs are reported, within those numbers are people who are offered early retirement.