Am I wrong to find this incredibly awkward?

Laura,

I frequently faced the same situation at a former gym and felt equally as uncomfortable as you did...Some moms would bring older kids into the locker rooms, and those kids would STARE at the strangers in the locker room, so no, I absolutely did not feel comfortable getting changed in their presence. Like another poster, I used to take my things and get changed in the restroom or shower stall. I was in my early 20s then and didn't speak up, but if it were to happen now, it is something I would address with management. I do understand a parent's fear about letting kids go into locker rooms alone, but I feel the only appropriate answer here is that any gym offering classes for kids MUST have a family changing room.

By the way, as a fellow Jersey resident, I think it's utterly ridiculous to tax gym memberships. People committed to health & working out should be getting a tax BREAK!

Cathy :)
 
If Diane Sue was in that situation, I would go to the Spa and make sure they stopped that from happening again. What are those women thinking??? A parent like that explains why the schools are having problems in the elementary schools with sexual misconduct....
 
OK. Happens again this Thursday I'll have to be a little more vocal. Hate to do it but this is just an unacceptable situation. Bill, you left out how you'd feel if a guy brought a 5 YO girl into the mens locker room? I'm not being facetious here, I'm really curious. Because I'm thinking Dateline NBC would be right behind her..........

Cathy, is this tax insane or what? I completely agree w/the incentive. In fact, I'm on a statewide task force to eliminate the tax but so far they've done NOTHING. Nada. Zip. Too much politicking & not enough action.

When Corzine initiated the tax I even went so far as to write him a letter suggesting the state tax mud pies & polyester, elastic waisted pants instead, especially considering people like us are ALREADY SAVING the state money in health care costs. I never got any response, but I will say this: Corzine is a businessman & is trying to run the state like a business. Government is not a business! We are not here to make money, we're here to protect person & property. He makes a 20% property tax cut & then punishes people to fund it. It's just infuriating!

OK I need to get off my soapbox before I give myself a coronary & really cost you taxpayers some bucks LOL.
 
Boys that old simply are not allowed in the women's locker room at my health club. There is an age limit. I can't remember what it is, but they basically have to be almost infants. We don't have a family locker room either, so the parents just have to figure out what to do. I definitely agree that I would not feel comfortable with a 5-yr. old boy walking around our locker room.
 
While I understand that parents might be wary of allowing their children to go into a bathroom alone, I think they are responsible for finding another alternative. Just as a parent is responsible for their child in any situation, the mothers that are doing this need to find something that will not make other paying members uncofomrtable. They might need to be inconvenienced a little, so as to make those that made accomodations and changed their children prior or in the car, or those don't have a child to be responsible for, comfortable. Having a child does not give anyone carte blanche to be discourteous or allowances to be rude and disregard others. I realize that being a parent is difficult and comes with challenges, but as a parent, it is their responsibility to tackle those challenges and plan ahead if needed...not make others uncomfortable. Also, as a school psychologist, I will tell you not to fool yourselves that a 5 or 6 year-old child does not "notice" nakedness or attach any meaning to it. There is plenty of empirical support in the literature to prove that is not true. I am not trying to be contentious, I just think that some parents have to be more consideratae of other people. I am not one of those people that minds a crying baby in a restaurant or kids running around and having fun (maybe even in places that they shouldn't), but that is not making anyone uncomfortable. Bringing a 5 year-old boy into a woman's locker room does. Additionally, in today's hypervigilant culture where almost anything can be considered sexual abuse, is it really appropriate to bring a child into a situation where they will see naked women?! Would these mothers take their 5 year-old to a movie that has nudity?

Anyway, don't mean to ruffle any feathers. Everyone will do what makes themselves comfortable. I just think it would help if we all asked ourselves how our actions and behaviors will make others feel.

And, Laura, a tax on health club memberships?!?! That is SO counter-intuitive! If more people adopted healthy lifestyles and exercised, the medical burden on the country would be less! Fewer people would need medical care. There should be a TAX BREAK for health club memberships!!!

Lorie
 
i think the parents should have checked the locker room first to see if there were ladies changing before bringing in the kids. i believe the parents are wrong and if the gym isn't doing anything about it they are just as wrong too. i agree at that age they start to question,comment, and some may even know excactly what they are seeing. i would be embarressed and would have probably starting being really b*tchy at that point and tell them in so many words that it was rude what they just did. i don't care what they are doing, they could have at least checked before letting the boys enter the locker room.

kassia

http://www.picturetrail.com/ldy_solana

"And do what thee wilt as long as ye harm none"
 
For one, I fail to see the connection between a 4 or 5-year-old going to a women's locker room and sexual misconduct at school. I think this is a little far-fetched.

Lorie, with all due respect, why do parents have to be "more considerate" than other people? I don't see how you can make a parent responsible for finding an alternative, I think that would be the gym's responsibility.

I can see that paying gym members shouldn't be made "uncomfortable", however, those kids and their parents are paying members too, at least at my gym and I have to pay for any class that I send them to. So why would my money be worth less than someone elses, because I am a parent????

As a school psychologist, I would think that you are a little more intune with the challenges parents face nowadays with predetors praying on children. Quite frankly if it comes to the choice of protecting my child or "inconveniencing" someone, I think it is a no-brainer what to chose.


That being said, I don't agree with the practice of bringing kids of the opposite sex in the locker room, but it is the responsibility of the management of the health club to offer alternatives.
The gym offers those kids' classes and the owners/management of the gym sure doesn't have a problem taking money from the children's parents.

Carola
 
I am totally with Carola on this one! Parents are people, too. And if the gym isn't providing accomodations, you have to do what you have to do. I think Laura is on the right track by making proactive suggestions about areas this could be handled.

If it was me, I'd probably go into the locker room first and make sure no one was around AND I'd have my child change in the stall to minimize discomfort for all. That being said, I would never send a kid that small into a men's locker room by himself. (This was one of the reasons we stopped going to the YMCA. They have very hard rules on this issue, despite a large population of parents with opposite-sex kids. AND they want you to shower before you get in the pool!)

My youngest is now 8 and this is still very uncomfortable for me. He's so funny, though, if we're in a restaurant, I'll walk him to the bathroom and wait outside the door. Without any prompting, he walks in saying, "I know, I know! I won't talk to anyone! I won't touch anything! I'll wash my hands with soap!" LOL

Marie
 
Carola, pardon, but I don't see where I said anything about sexual misconduct at school. I did say that our society is hypervigilant about sexual abuse (as it should be) but no tie in to sexual misconduct at school.

Additionally, I don't think the women in the locker room are merely being "inconvenienced," as it appears (from what many people have posted) that they feel uncomfortable.

The gum should definitely do something, but in the absence of that, I think parents should take responsibility for their children. A number of mothers posted that they take their children into a separate bathroom or change in the car. Are you saying they shouldn't have to and whomever is uncomfortable should just deal with it? I don't think the people paying for their membership would agree and getting a family changing room is not their battle to fight, IMO.

At what point should parents stop taking their children into locker rooms? A pedophile does not only prey on young children. Children 10, 11, 12 and older can fall prey to pedophiles and be too scared to do anything about it, although they could protest more than a younger child or walk away. Some of the children I have worked with who are victims of sexual abuse will tell you they were too scared to run away or were threatened and afraid for their safety.

At any rate, not trying to get into a debate nor an argument.

Lorie
 
I'm a mom and I wouldn't want one of my young boys in the men's locker room alone. That being said, I would be uncomfortable with having them change out in the open in a women's locker room as well--need to start developing some boundaries at this age.

I'd prefer a family changing room, but if that was not available, I'd have them change in a bathroom stall in the women's locker room.

Yes, I think you have a right to feel awkward.

Maggie:)
 
>Carola, pardon, but I don't see where I said anything about
>sexual misconduct at school. I did say that our society is
>hypervigilant about sexual abuse (as it should be) but no tie
>in to sexual misconduct at school.
>
I didn't refer to you, I think it was Bill who said something to that effect in his post. That's why I said that first and then in a different paragraph said "Lorie, with all due respect ......"

I have already said that I don't agree with the practice of bringing children of the opposite sex in a locker room but I just strongly disagree with your notion that other paying members have more "rights" than paying parents who pay the same membership fee (or more if you add on the children), it's ok for parents to be inconvenienced or be uncomfortable and change their kids in the car? I can just see the next gym member complain because he/she is "uncomfortable" because there is a naked kid in the car, come on now.

I think Laura should complain to management, no question!

I'd be happy to rephrase it for you, if it comes to a choice of protecting my child or making someone "uncomfortable", I will chose the first EVERY time!!

I am just flabbergasted by your statements which I find particularly troubling consindering the fact that you are supposedly a school psychologist. Quite frankly, I am really uncomfortable now. But I am not getting into an argument with you!

Carola
 
"I am just flabbergasted by your statements which I find particularly troubling consindering the fact that you are supposedly a school psychologist. Quite frankly, I am really uncomfortable now."

Carola,

I am sorry you appear to feel the need to attack me personally for my views. I thought we were all entitled to our opinions and this forum was not a place to wage personal attacks or get nasty. I am not "supposedly" anything and I am sorry you are "troubled" and "flabbergasted" by what I have written and I have apparently made you "uncomfortable" (I didn't realize I had that much power).

I would never suggest endangering a child in any way, just that everyone be respectful and take into account others' feelings (for example, I have a therapy dog who comes to work with me. If someone is afraid of dogs or he makes them uncomfortable, I don't force them to be around him. I make sure he has another place to go. No, I am NOT equating having a dog and having a child, just trying to give a somewhat parallel example). I am sure there is a safe alternative to parents than either letting their children go into a locker room unsupervised or taking them into a women's locker room. Not everything is black or white, there are many shades of grey.

I have not been on this forum long, but have read about others who have been attacked or insulted based on their views one way or another. I am not sure why you decided to make it personal when it seems there were others who felt the same way.

It's a shame a thread that could have been thought-provoking and problem-solving has turned into an attack.

Lorie
 
I haven't attacked you personally, I am sorry you feel that way.

I found both of your posts very offensive, in what it said and how it was worded and I took the liberty to respond to it.

To stay with your example of bringing your dog to work, some people may find this uncomfortable too but may not say anything, for the same reason Laura is not saying anything right away.

The way I read your post, there was nothing problem-solving about it, it was attacking parents in my view.

Carola
 
Laura,
Re: the tax...LOL about taxing mud pies and polyester pants instead...you're absolutely right - it *is* insane, and here, I thought the new tax on massages was bad! Ah, it's always been a shell game in the good ol' Garden State, hasn't it?


>OK. Happens again this Thursday I'll have to be a little
>more vocal. Hate to do it but this is just an unacceptable
>situation. Bill, you left out how you'd feel if a guy brought
>a 5 YO girl into the mens locker room? I'm not being
>facetious here, I'm really curious. Because I'm thinking
>Dateline NBC would be right behind her..........
>
>Cathy, is this tax insane or what? I completely agree w/the
>incentive. In fact, I'm on a statewide task force to
>eliminate the tax but so far they've done NOTHING. Nada.
>Zip. Too much politicking & not enough action.
>
>When Corzine initiated the tax I even went so far as to write
>him a letter suggesting the state tax mud pies & polyester,
>elastic waisted pants instead, especially considering people
>like us are ALREADY SAVING the state money in health care
>costs. I never got any response, but I will say this: Corzine
>is a businessman & is trying to run the state like a business.
> Government is not a business! We are not here to make money,
>we're here to protect person & property. He makes a 20%
>property tax cut & then punishes people to fund it. It's just
>infuriating!
>
>OK I need to get off my soapbox before I give myself a
>coronary & really cost you taxpayers some bucks LOL.


~Cathy :)
 
I think this would be awkward for both parties in the locker room. My children would be uncomfortable changing around strangers just as the strangers would be uncomfortable around my children. I agree with Maggie....use a stall!!!

As a parent, I would not want to make anybody uncomfortable...especially my own children. Laura, I think it is rude of these moms to do this. They are probably making their children just as uncomfortable as you are feeling!

Sara
 
I have read all these responses. No one is wrong. I think it comes down to the gym. If you are offering services that have a mixed aged clientelle, then you better provide facilities that can handle both. The adults are uncomfortable with the mixed sex children, and they should not be put in that position. The parents feel they have no choice. Changing in a car is no fun, my daughter changes into her swimsuit sometimes in my teeny tiny Tiburon. Changing at home may not be possible if you are out somewhere else coming straight to the class.
So the responsibility lies in the gym.
 
Laura - I think you don't really have this problem at all. I think you just sit around on your lunch break and try to think of topics that will start controversy on the forum.:7
 
I don't post on this forum very often, and try to stay away from threads like this (after they have disolved into the argument stage, because I did comment earlier on) because it seems like the simplest question, statement, observation, etc., always ends up in some kind of argument, most dreaded of all, some sort of political "debate." Some would call it "lively debate," but I call it tiresome.
 
Donna, LMAO! Probably I don't even have to put any thought into it, it seems so many topics are so inflammatory these days.

Honestly, I don't want to start arguments or generate hard feelings. I was truly at a loss re. how to handle this situation b/c I KNOW parents are sensitive about their children & I didn't know if this was common practice or whether I'd be seriously overstepping boundaries by making an issue of it to the owner. These are difficult concepts for someone w/limited exposure to children to grasp, so I figured the best thing to do would ask some actual parents.

I do feel better and appreciate the responses that I've received. Doesn't sound like I'm wrong to feel uncomfortable & I will try to *gently* address it w/the owner when I get the opportunity. I won't make a big stink out of it, just a subtle suggestion. Hopefully that will be enough.
 
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