Alcohol and teenagers

Candi, I don't know about the moral/ethical ramifications of encouraging alcohol consumption among youth, but it's definitely illegal and there have been several highly publicized cases of parents being prosecuted. (I don't remember if they were just supplying their own kids or if other kids were involved. I suspect a combination.) Frankly, *I* would push for the prosecution of some other parent that offered my kid a safe haven for drinking!

Marie
 
Yes, Marie, I know about a recent case that was on Good Morning America in which the parents were prosecuted. In that case the parents not only gave their own child alcohol but also a friends who were visiting the house at the time. It was one of the other parents that brought charges.

We all raise our children how we see fit so I'm trying to say that if the parent is willing to take the responsibility...so be it.

If the parent supplies the alcohol, whatever negative affects that first drink would have, the parent is heavily accountable for in my mind. Now on the other hand, if I were to tell my child "No, I'm not supplying you with alchohol", and she found it on her own, then she would be responsible and accountable.

I question my feelings, because of what my father and ex allowed alcohol to do to them and the family. I already have a jaded viewpoint so I didn't know if I was over going over the top again x(

Another Marie sanity check, thanks :)
 
No, of course you weren't, Candi. I think some topics just push our buttons more than others. This was one for me. I was trying to be careful, too. :)

Marie
 
Ok. Here's my story. My folks were moderate drinkers that allowed me to drink and had beer at my 16th birthday party (the legal age was 18 then). I was a wild teen and went bar hopping.

My dh's parents never drank and never allowed it. He was a wild teen.

Neither of our parents really did a lot of "checking up" on us. I agree with the above poster that went out in the wee hours to find her teen. I believe you need to trust your kids - up to a point. My almost 16 y/o ds is going out quite a bit now and I know exactly who is going to be there and where they are going to be - and I check that out. That won't stop him if he really wants to go out and party, but at least I will find out about it pretty quickly! My dh drinks a beer occasionally. I have started having a 1/2c of red wine in hopes of raising my hdl levels. My son asked for a taste and I let him - one sip.

I currently live in the south where it seems people are either alcoholics or totally anti alcohol. I have tried to teach my kids that there is nothing wrong with a glass of wine with dinner or a cold beer. That the problem is in drinking to get drunk - to catch a buzz.
I think that is the wrong way to drink whether you are 16 or 61. We are Christian and I believe the bible supports this idea. I have also told my kids that there are quite a few on my side with drinking problems and that they will have to always keep a close eye on their habits and if they find themselves desiring it , they had better completely quit.

I have also discussed the self esteem/peer pressure part of getting drunk. I have a lot of talks on the correct ways to find self esteem (NOT getting drunk/high or being sexually promiscuous). Hope it works! Marnie
 
Wow - my husband and I have had several conversations about this exact topic. Our DD is 14. I grew up in a home where I was allowed to drink alcohol, with limits, from as far back as I can remember. My husband came from a home where alcohol was absolutely forbidden for the kids. I never felt that drinking was a big deal, and therefore never went out and got drunk. Heck I hardly ever went out drinking at all with my freinds - it was like, why bother, I can do this at home. My husband, on the other hand, did go out drinking wiht his friends - it was getting away with something you weren't supposed to be doing. Looking back, he realizes how stupid he was, but teenagers don't think straight.

The way I look at it, how can people expect someone who's never had alcohol before to just turn 18 or 21 and instinctively know how to handle it? Since everyone's body responds differently, I'd prefer for my child to learn how alcohol affects her at home, where it's safe. Mind you, I'm not talking about letting her get drunk. I'm talking letting her try a sip or or two of wine/beer when we happen to have it. As she gets older, if she wants to have a half a glass of wine, that'll be ok. She can learn how to drink responsibly in the safety of our home where we can teach her how to gage when she's had enough. Yes, she can learn by watching, but until you feel your own reaction, it's hard to know that one glass affects you this way and two glasses affects you that way.

I realize that it's illegal but I'd hate for her to learn how alcohol affects her at some party with some not-so-well-intentioned young man.
 
All my life alcohol has done great harm to me and loved ones. Since you posed your question, Erica, I have weighed what my response might be if it were one of my kids wwho asked. I know I could not grant the request. That is partly based on the legality but largely on the alcoholism that runs in my family. I would say no and I think that would go well because I am quite lenient and communcation with my kids has always been good. We trust each other. My oldest is a little more guarded but far from secretive and she knows she has my deep respect for her commitment to waiting for many things some of her friends have not. A liberal democrat, I am delighted in her choice of boyfriends, a Young Republican who respects her implicitly! ;) Her focus is grades, thank heaven! :) He is going to college here in Tucson and she has decided to consider the U of A. I can thank him for that too. :)
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Those of you that aren't opposed to allowing your kids drink - have you ever checked out myspace - pretty scary if you want to see teen drinking. The HS has had a number of episodes when girls have gotten drunk and pics were taken (multiple guys - you get the picture).

I am all for the law going after parents who provide a haven for other kids drinking.

Also re telling your kids what you did - in 9th grade at a back to school night a parent asked the teacher her view on it. She made a great statement "what is the purpose in you telling your kids, there are something that kids do not need to know. Many times if they hear their folks did drugs they will then think it's ok if I do"

I very strongly feel parents need to set limits. Just like the parents of very young kids that rather than telling their kid it is time to go say "Do you want to go now".

Good conversation thread.
 
> Also re telling your kids what you did - in 9th grade at a back to school night a parent asked the teacher her view on it. She made a great statement "what is the purpose in you telling your kids, there are something that kids do not need to know. Many times if they hear their folks did drugs they will then think it's ok if I do"


Robyn, not to argue with you, but I would really disagree with this point of view. I am not for telling kids the details of what you've done - that is really inappropriate - but I AM all for being honest about your experiences so that someone actually learns from them. I think it's really important for kids to understand (1) mom and dad have made mistakes, and (2) you don't have to.

Just my .02.

Marie
 
>Those of you that aren't opposed to allowing your kids drink
>- have you ever checked out myspace - pretty scary if you want
>to see teen drinking. The HS has had a number of episodes
>when girls have gotten drunk and pics were taken (multiple
>guys - you get the picture).
>


I really doubt that the parents of these kids condone the drinking. My point is, it is widespread and being open and honest with your kid is better than hiding your head in the sand and pretending it is not happening. At my son's graduation practice which was 9 am in the morning, several girls showed up drunk. Girls of parents who would be mortified if they knew their daughters showed up drunk. We parents cannot hide and pretend this is not going on just because we say no. It is widespread and we better be prepared how to deal with it.

I am not one to buy the drinks for my underage child, but if they wanted a taste and I had a drink in hand, I would give them a taste to satisfy their curiosity. And then explain that it is off limits and why.
 
Once you've given your child the drink, how could it be off limits? It would appear to me that an adolescent would already see that limit extended by the fact he's had the alcohol and it was his parent that let him have it.

I didn't put my head in the sand. I expected experimentation because that's what the adolescent years are all about. Learning and growing and experimenting outside the boundaries of what you have been taught is safe.

I think it's putting our heads in the sand if we think just because we let them have a drink, that's going to stop them from experimenting with their friends.

All MHO.

This is a very interesting debate.
 
The kid asked for a taste. A taste is different than a whole drink. I see that as being very different than allowing them a drink or buying it for them.

So if you say no to the taste, then they may go out and get the taste easily from their teen friends, and then not have the control of how much they have that they would if the parent gave them the taste, and it opened up a conversation between parent and teen about alchohol and drinking.

I think if someone thinks saying no to the taste and no to the alchohol will stop the drinking in teens, they are wrong. In this case it sounds like at 15 the kid had not had any. Believe me, kids are drinking in Junior High now, so for him to make it to 15 is really good. A taste from his parent drink is not going to send him down the drinking road.

Drinking is more a peer thing. Again, if their friends are drinking, there is a big likelihood they will drink. My son hooked up with the non-drinking crowd and at 18 does not drink. But realistically, next year at college, it will probably happen. I can talk until I am blue in the face, but he is going to do it, if he wants to.
 
>The kid asked for a taste. A taste is different than a whole
>drink. I see that as being very different than allowing them
>a drink or buying it for them.

Ok, so if we follow this logic, when a child asks for a puff from a cigarette or a joint, then that's okay too since it's "only a taste"?

>So if you say no to the taste, then they may go out and get
>the taste easily from their teen friends, and then not have
>the control of how much they have that they would if the
>parent gave them the taste, and it opened up a conversation
>between parent and teen about alchohol and drinking.

I disagree. Why couldn't the conversation occur sans the taste? I would think most aware parents are already having those conversations without waiting for the child to initiate the discussion. My son and I, for example, talk about sex often (I think you have to since they are surrounded with these images on TV and in movies), and how it might seem like a good idea at the time but it's really best to wait until you really love someone and are ready, etc., etc.

>I think if someone thinks saying no to the taste and no to the
>alchohol will stop the drinking in teens, they are wrong.

I don't think anyone is saying that. The argument is really, does allowing the tasting lead to the perception on the child's part that the parent condones the behavior? And if this was okay, then what is next? Alcohol IS a gateway to other drugs as well as inappropriate behaviors.

>Drinking is more a peer thing.

That may be true, but how does the parent allowing the behavior make it less likely for the child to drink with peers?

My opinion is that the more open and honest the relationship, the greater likelihood that the child will talk to you when those questions arise and MAYBE some of what you've said will stay with them and they'll make better choices.

I will tell you, this thread has really gotten me thinking about how I am going to respond if/when this becomes an issue with my kids.

Marie
 
I've been neglecting this thread, 1) because I don't have children so it's really not an issue for me, and 2) because I am the daughter of a now deceased alcoholic parent and I have rather strong opinions about alcoholism.

Having said that...

I am 1/2 Italian on my mom's side (my German dad was the alcoholic parent). She immigrated to this country as a small child. My granddfather made wine and had a wall of oak barrels in his basement filled with Italian red table wine. It was the custom to serve wine with dinner and the children were served right along with the adults at every holiday dinner. We weren't given much--just an ounce or so, and no one thought anything about it. There was no discussion, there were no debates, none of the kids asked for wine. We were served as a matter of course, and every holiday dinner began with a toast. We weren't forced to drink it. It just was not a big deal at all.

The only alcoholic in my family was my father (I have a brother with a dual diagnosis--he is mentally ill and he drinks, but I'm not sure I would really classify him as an alcholic, but that's a long story). Out of about 50 or so cousins, only one is an alcoholic. None of my mother's siblings ever had a problem with substance abuse of any kind. Neither my DH or I drink...we simply don't care for it. We drank some in our youth, but as we've gotten older it just doesn't appeal to us anymore. I suspect if I had kids, they would be given wine at holiday dinners, along with the rest of us.
 
Dorothy, you could have a child who drinks responsibly if he drinks at all. That's wonderful. :) I think parents who are opposed owe it to themselves say no to a mere sip or a full glass regardless of what "might" happen. As Candi pointed out, saying yes to a sip sanctions drinking in general. At that point, a non-drinker may think to become a partier. I often explain to my 8 year old that no means no and there's no room for negotiation on an adamant no. Teens need those boundaries very badly and they can handle them quite well. Peer pressure has been shown to be the largest single factor which prompts negative behavior in children. That is why I am such a proponant of being open with your children.

My daughter has a cell phone and I can get in touch with her at all times. When she leaves I have asked who she will be with and what she will be doing. If I can't reach her there's a good chance her cell phone will become mine and she will not be give free access to my car. She went to Barnes and Noble and wanted to make a stop at Sonic for a banana split. She called me to ask though I would not have minded if she had made an executive decision on that stop. It's just what she does.

As parents we are far from powerless and it's not necessary to adopt a my way or the highway attitude. There's a very good possiblity that Erica's son is simply testing the waters as children often do. If she sends him the message that she sanctions drinking at his age, she will, in my humble opinion, be setting him up to face situations where he has to make a choice over drinking and he ends up drinking. Don't think that he will not think of what his parents have told him regarding a taste of wine and choose to try it. It's been my experience that if you let your children know what you expect of them, they will in fact comply with that because it's based on sound reasoning and love. :) What if allowing him to take that drink leads to his not thinking it a big deal in the presence of his peers? I think that if far more likely to happen once that barrier has dropped and I wouldn't want to be the parent who dropped it. It seems to me the real problem is when children are faced with these things and have no clear cut course of action as laid out by their parents. I may be fairly liberal and my kids know that but they are not always the beneficiaries of it since they are mine to protect and cherish as long as I may. I could not and would not sit my child down in front of a glass of wine or a bottle of beer offer a tasted. Erica has made me very aware of that! . :)

I reiterate that parents get to say no and mean no regardless of what might happen outside of the home. That conversation about alcohol and drinking can and should include a resounding no. And if it does why should a parent assume that their child is just going to wait until the opportunity arises and do it them? What Erica and all parents who are struggling with this issue should do is get their kid around someone who is drunk. Show how uncool it truly is. I have a brother who is a chronic alcoholic and he is killing himself. My kids love him but he makes them so sad. When Ali comes home from being around friends who have gotten drunk, she is often derisive of them. Children can be taught of the dangers of alcohol. Children are smart and deserve respect and they handle responsibilty too.

We live in a society that has laws regarding teenaged drinking which are more stringent that Europe's and yet I see a fair amount of acceptance and leniency regarding DUI, which infuriates me. Alcohol is part of our cultural thing and it's well accepted as normal to go and get hammered sometimes, especially when young. How stupid is that? That's no rite of passage that I want to tell my children they will go through and I will do my best to communicate that to them. I think that has worked, judging by how they view alcohol.

Erica says she likes it too much. She may never have told her son that but she may now. That's huge. That sharing can keep him from drinking as a teen as well as letting him know that she expects him not to drink now before he is ready to handle the effects which have inherent dangers. We do our children a disservice to assume that they cannot handle these matters and make the decisions we expect of them. The child Erca describe's is the type of child who does not go down that path, honor student, trustworthy and responsible. If she says yes, she guarentees he tries it, right there in her presence with her mind perhaps saying this is not a good thing. Saying no, I would bargain that he will wait. He could become a teetotal like dad. That description of Erica's son is the description of my oldest daughter who is something called Straight Edge which has a great deal to do with the alternative music she listens to but also involves a vow to abstain from potentially negative actions involving alcohol, drugs and sex. Don't think I don't count my blessings on that. I also trust her to live that life now at 17 as she did when she took it up a few years ago. She has yet to disapoint me.

Sorry to be so long-winded but Erica's dilemma has me thinking and I am worried for her son. ;) Erica, say no and tell him why and let im know how you regard him, trustworthy and responsible and see if he doesn't happily put that request away for now and who knows how much longer. :)

I am rooting for you and your husband. Choosing your battles well is key. This is a battle that can change his life. Parents are powerful and influential even when they are teens. I believe I have more sway over my teens than most of thier peers and that is partly why their peers for the most part are pretty well-behaved. The few exceptions are viewed sadly but still loved by my kids. The doped up boy, the drnk or slutty girl, yes, they know those kids. They also know how easy it is to get drugs and alcohol and yet niether has ever gotten home andnot been able to come and talk to me because they didn't want me to see tey had been up to no good. You can send your child out the door, knowing they will make good decisions and come home sober and virginal! :D
 
I don't believe my son drinks, because I too have yet to see him come home in any condition but sober. Even when going to graduation parties last week, the parties he went to did not serve and had adults at them.

I also have not had Erica's situation occur, simply because we don't have anything in the house because we don't drink. So if he asked for a taste, I would not have anything. However, he has had wine. Where? At church, for communion, which is given to kids at 1st communion in second grade.

But I know that even though my husband and I set a good example, and I especially tell the kids the dangers of drinking and driving, and my boy has been directly impacted by a friend's mother being killed by a drunk, that college kids drink. And when he goes to college, I hope he makes good decisions, but he may not. Despite everything he has been taught.

All of these kids have been taught since early on at school the dangers of drinking and drugs. Yest there are many that choose to ignore it.

My point is, yes we can take the hardline, and say nonono, but it does not guarantee they will not try it. We as parents just have to know our kids and do our best to teach them what is right, and then hope for the best.
 
You are so right! We do our best and hope they get it. That is so sad, that a friend lost his mother by a drunk driver. Sometimes those hard lessons are the ones that stick with our kids. He sounds like a good boy. That is a reflection of a good upbringing, Dorothy. :) I have a neice who is my best friend, the child of my oldest sister who was a very tough parent. She admires my easy going way with my kids and especially how they can express even displeasure with me and my husband with no fear of repercussions. It's funny, my sister and I have the same parents but mothered so differently. I attribute my success with my own mothers gentleness and tolerant, open attitude. I have 9 siters and 3 brothers and my mother saw everything from very hardcore drug usage to sneaking otu and cutting school. So far my girls have never abused the trust we have. I feel very blessed. I hope my son follows suit. Boys and girls are quite different in many ways. You are also right that there are no guarantees. Parenting can be downright frightening. When my daughter began driving, it was difficult for me to just let go and not because I didn't trust her but because she's out there and not all kids her age are like her. I am struck by what you say of yourself. Parents who model moderation have the edge over the ones who tell their kids one thing and do another. It's also very much about attitudes. Letting them know that it's not quite as exciting and cool or hip as it may be made out to be. Watching someone get ill from drinking or make a boob of himself, which Ali has had the opportunity to observe on more than one occasion, seems to have had a large impact on her. She has a few friends who have gotten into some trouble and overall she is saddened by that. She has compassion for the types of situations which make kids susceptible to abuse. One of her closesst friends is having a very difficult time due to an alcoholic father who recently had a very public bender. He worked at their high school. It was very disturbing and sad. Ali was a great support to her friend. I was a very straightlaced teenager but my husband was inclined toward experimentation. He has a difficult time trusting the kids because of that. There are so many variables. In the end it is as you said, we can only do our best and hope for the best. Every time these subjects come up, I learn so much and I appreciate that. Being involved in these discussions, I feel as if I become a better parent, ready for anything which may arise because one never knows what might happen. It is so cool to be privy to all the amazing women here. I'm not surprised you are raising great kids because you are smart, caring people and good models for the type of behavior you wish to see from your kids. Ali has but one year left and then she's off to college and she's very eager to go. I am intent on enjoying her last year and delaying the worry and trepidations of seeing my firstborn leave this nest. It's nice to know I'll have this place for that time. :) I used to be very uptight and over-protective to a very neurotic level but I have relaxed a great deal as my perfectionist firstborn has shown herself to be a very smart young woman. She's going to rock the world. I wish all the fine parents of Cathe.com all the best with these tough situations and I feel very lucky to have get to see things from your perspective. I feel the same way about Catheites who have no children. You are the educated crowd in so many ways and not just when it comes to working out!
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I agree this has been a really good thought provoking thread. I have another child to get through the teen years. She is just at the beginning, and she is going to be much harder than the first.

I look back at when and why I began to drink. My biggest influence was the sister that was 2 years older than me. I remember when my parents were not home for some reason, and none of my other siblings either. She was a freshman. She gets out a bottle of Dad's beer and drinks it casually as if no big deal. I was shocked and told her Dad would notice and why the heck was she drinking it. She said she liked it and Dad would not notice. She obviously had been drinking outside of the house to know she liked it. And Dad did not notice.

She was the one that took me to my first party and I was in 8th grade. Most people drank in High School, so there was always a party to go to, or some older kid just out of HS that would buy you alchohol. And the campus bars were not as strict as they are now, so again, once we had our liscenses, it was easy to hit those, although I don't remember drinking much at them, just walking around trying to be cool. I also remember never driving if I was drinking. I would stay over at a friend's house rather than drive.

Nothing incredible happened to make me stop,and once in a while when we go to dinner, I will have a drink. I think once I was on my own, I was poor, I really got into fitness, and the combination of those two things made me stop drinking. Probably maturity was a big thing.

My sis still loves her beer. When we host family get togethers, we don't provide alchohol, so she always brings a case and she and her husband usually down the whole thing in an evening. Pretty scary. Her son's wedding reception was the drunken fest that I remember going to as a kid, everyone wasted including the teens. We left way before any of those people would be driving home. It seems to be a way of life in small town USA. Kids don't have anything else to do(that is their excuse) so they party. Raising the age has not stopped it. Ads run on TV and Health classes have not stopped it. Most of the parents grew up with it, so maybe there is a silent condoning.

With my son, he parted ways with the partiers along time ago, and I think that is why he is the way he is. I am keeping my eye on my daughters group!
 
They call them Tweens these days and it's one of the toughtest ages, I think. My 15 year old recently came home and told us one of her friends who had said she would never use drugs had tried marijuana and her group had all given her a hard time and called her a loser. I smoked pot once at 13 at the home of a scoolmate who's mom said her kids could use any drug or alcohol as long as they did it at home. Her daughter did not imbibe. I did not like it. I drank once as a teen too and also didn't like it. I was never in a hurry to experiment. Back then drugs were pervasive. I did indeed succumb to peer pressure on those two occcasions. I was pressired by my best friend who used pot and drank beer quite a bit. I told my mother, who handled it well but requested I not repeat the experiment for many of the reasons sited right here. I have spoken of it to my children also when they asked. The group I hung out with used drugs and alcohol quite casually but I didn't after my initial experiments. I have a very low tolerance and never found it enjoyable to alter my consciousness in that way. My daughters have told me how readily availalbe may types of drugs are at school. There are groups who use cocaine, the wealthier kids as well as pot heads but alcohol is the main misused substance and it is the easiest to acquire. I developed a drinking problem for a short time many years ago. It was strictly a horrilbe way to deal with difficult situations that arose in my life at the time. Drinking was disastrous for me from the beginning. I was not good at it which is I think a blessing in disguise. it made it simple to realize that that was no way to deal with unhappiness, making it worse before it ever got better. I am a teetotaler now and intend to remain one forever. Drug and alcohol abuse has been a part of my family history always with some very tragic outcomes throughout the years. I think that and being very frank with my children about it, has been helpful to them to make the choices they have. They regard useage very nagatively. Time will tell if they decide to experiment. I hope and pray they do not. This has been very helpful to me and I intend to open a dialog with each of them to sort of feel them out at this stage of being. Hopefully, college will only present the stuggle to prevent the Freshman 15,, as in pounds. That I am completely prepared to deal with. :)
Bobbi "Chicks rule!"http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/tiere/animal-smiley-032.gif
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Here in WI parents can serve alcohol to their kids, I think age 16+. Even at the bar, but I'm not sure whether or not it includes hard stuff or just beer/wine.
 

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