Yates woman got off

This case makes me see red. I agree with everyone that the husband is to blame in large part and should be prosecuted as well.

I can empathsize with the sentiments expressed by a few concerning the attitudes towards people afflicted with mental illness. My own dear brother is a paranoid schizophrenic and I wouldn't even know where to begin to explain all that he and my family has been through over the years. It's very sad indeed, the lack of understanding and compassion that these poor people endure. This is a very complicated issue. Let's not forget, though, that mental illness and insanity are NOT the same thing. Was Andrea Yates INSANE when she systematically chased down and drowned each of her 5 children, one at a time? I don't know.
 
Anne

That's why I don't watch the news very often. I get nightmares and depressed about horried things like that.

Janie

"If you can't say anything nice about someone, then don't say anything at all."
-My mother, Mary Cooper-
 
What is the point of having her behind bars for the remainder of her life without focusing on her illness? Believe me, as a clinical social worker, her time in the institutional setting is not a vacation. It will most certainly be akin to prison. Post Partum Psychosis, although affects a very small percentage of the population at large, is a very real condition that we have seen the horrible extreme result. I am not excusing this horrific crime, but I think it is important to look at the root of the problem in order to further our knowledge about mental illness for our society & its future well-being. It is also very possible for the husband to have been in denial about the severity of the issue. That is how families living with these illnesses often cope. It unfortunately turns into an enmeshed, enabling situation. I hope this sheds some light on the situation.


"You have to stay in shape. My grandmother, she started walking five miles a day when she was 60. She's 97 today and we don't know where the hell she is." -- Ellen DeGeneres


Debbie
 
I KNOW!!!! ABSOLUTELY SICKENING, JUST SICKENING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I honestly don't know how defenders do it.......

Those poor children, who on earth can do such a thing. Who can look at a sweet innocent beautiful being and actually hurt them!! It makes me so sad I can't even think about it. Too many sickos in this world, it truly is unfair:(
 
I agree that there is a terrible misunderstanding among a lot of people about mental illness. My aunt has schizophrenia and my husband's mother has bipolar disorder. The difference in both of them when they are on their medications, and when they are off of them, is extraordinary. They can go from "raving lunatics" with impossible delusions, to the wonderful people they are when their brain chemistry is regulated. Believe me, my aunt has no opportunity to use her "higher brain" or "willpower" when she is gripped by hallucinations and delusions, they completely take over her world. In my aunt's case she thought she was responsible for the deaths of John and Robert Kennedy, and heard horrible screaming voices day and night telling her that she had to kill herself by drowning to avenge their deaths. She tried to drown herself many times. Her younger life was a torture for her and for her family. Fortunately she is still alive and has found a medication which helps, although not cures, her symptoms.

There was a terrible tragedy here in Orange County, California, about 7 years ago. A young mother was severly diabetic, and went into a diabetic coma at home alone one day, and her toddler drowned in the hot tub. She was not prosecuted, in fact everyone rallied around her and her family, it was a "horrible accident" and she was "not responsible" because of her diabetic condition, which she worked very hard to control. She got lots of love and support for losing her precious baby. Andrea Yates had likewise been diagnosed with a severe illness, a CHEMICAL IMBALANCE, a PHYSICAL ILLNESS, schizophrenia, and had prior severe post-partum depression, psychosis and suicide attemtps, and had been taken off her meds, and herself recognized that she was very ill and tried her best to get help but was turned away. Why don't people understand that a person with schizophrenia and psychosis is unable to control her actions and really cannot make a choice? The lack of understanding about mental illness in this country appalls me. I understand that in the case of a mother killing her kids, people just get bloodthirsty and want someone to pay. However, that is not the right thing to do in this case. If somebody puts some LSD in my morning coffee, and I hallucinate that the devil is after me and try to hurt someone, I'm not making a conscious choice about my actions, and I therefore cannot tell right from wrong because of my screwed-up brian chemistry at the time. It's the same thing with schizophrenia - those of you who think it's not a "real illness" should do some more research. It's a condition caused basically by LSD-like chemicals flooding the brain and making it impossible for the victim to behave rationally.

I'm very glad that the case was re-brought to trial and that Andrea was found not guilty by reason of insanity, and that she was transferred from prison to a mental hospital. Those of you who think she should be drawn and quartered had better hope and pray that neither you, nor your kids, nor your parents, nor your spouses, ever gets a serious mental illness, because then you will exprerience first-hand what it's like to be severely ill with a physically-caused condition, and to have everyone denigrate and punish you for not "snapping out of it".
 
Jana!
I just read this. Thank you for filling us all in. I watched a dateline thing on them and knew they lived quite strange lives. But your information was very interesting. Yes, there are definitly others that should be on trial as well. This situation is pitiful! Those babies!!!!!!!!! She will forever be in her own personal hell, you couldn't have put it better.
 
I work for the newspaper in Houston. The courthouse is just a few blocks from here. I have been up to my eyeballs all day long in this trial for the past few weeks, and, of course, for much longer when it first occurred.

When it first happened, I wanted her to go to jail, especially after dealing with the horrific blow-by-blow details as part of my job. Now I just feel so sorry for her. I do think the following people should be put in jail: her husband, the grandparents who knew what was going on and looked the other way, and, most of all, the pastor of that fundamentalist ``church'' they were involved with.

Rusty Yates never helped her around the house, and wanted her to crank out child after child. He disregarded all the dire warnings that several health care professionals gave him. 2 of them specifically told him Andrea should have no more children after the births of the last 2. She had some post-partum depression after the first one, and it got successively worse. He also didn't make sure she took her meds. He insisted she home-school, and the oldest child had just started that. He is re-married, and has a stepchild, a teenager, I believe - they don't have one together. He also LOVES the spotlight. He's always available for camera time.

The pastor is evil incarnate, as far as I'm concerned
 
Diane, I agree with you completely. I think the question in my mind is that I don't know with certainty if Andrea Yates was sane or not. I don't know if she was psychotic at the time she drowned her children. The prosecution didn't believe she was insane. All I know is what her defense attorneys have advanced in an obvious attempt to sway public opinion and influence the jury. She may well have been insane but I have no way of knowing if she was or wasn't. I only know what her attorneys want us to believe. Let's face it, our legal system today doesn't have anything to do with getting at the truth of a matter, it's all about winning your case.
 
Michele, I totally agree with you - I'm a paralegal and anything to do with the law is seen as a game by most lawyers, it's not about finding the truth. Each side exaggerates their own cause and ignores any conflicting evidence. And you're right, nobody will ever know whether Andrea was insane at the exact moment she made that decision. I just think that she had been so insane for so long in the past, that she should be given the benefit of the doubt.
 
Wow Mocha, that is so wonderful to hear NJ is making this a priority issue and working to educate woman on how dangerous this is. Thank you for sharing this wonderful news.
 
I am sickened by this. Excellent points and statements everyone has brought forward. My personal feeling is You would have to be crazy to do this to your own children.

I had twins (there are women that have more at once) sure I got a little frazzled at times but those thoughts never crept into my head.

My own personal opinion here as well He should have been on trial right along with her ecspecially with all the past documented statements. I do not know how he can live with himself. If I would touch a hair on my childrens head I would not have to worry about standing trial any one of my family members would have offed me my hubby for sure. I pray to God he gets what will be coming to him.

The insurance and doctors that turned treatment away they too should have consequences. My husband and I pay 1,000.00 per month to carry health Insurance for my family can you believe it they will not include a precription plan with that so we pay another fee yearly to get it discounted I would be knocking down doors for help from somewhere.

Well in anycase if she is in a padded room they should surround the entire top of her room with the childrens photos so she will constantly remember those precious faces and what she took from this Earth she should have to live with that Grief if there is any light at the end of the tunnel.


beth6395
 
wow, this is so incredibly sad. I had kinda of forgotten about this case because it was so long ago. I think the whole "not guilty by reason of insanity" is crazy..even if she IS insane, it should be "guilty by reason of insanity"! She still did the crime, whether she was mentally with it or not. I do feel kinda sad for her (assuming she was insane at the time) but those poor kids!!!
 
Createdbygod, that is an excellent point. I think some states do have a verdict of "Guilty but insane", which carries different sentences than those that are guilty but knew what they were doing at the time. "Not guilty by reason of insanity" does sound like it absolves her of guilt, and it is true that she killed her kids even though she was insane. The whole story is so heartbreaking and tragic, and it probably could have been prevented with better medical care or if Andrea's husband had taken her illness seriously. He was interviewed a few years ago and he said he honestly did not know that mental illness could be so severe, he had had no experience of psychosis before and thought that she was just a "little depressed" with the "baby blues", and didn't realize how ill she was. He also believed, from a religious point of view, that God would not send them more children than they could care for. So it's hard to say if he was a monster or just misguided and uneducated...
 
Anytime you kill for no reason it’s insane. Should we let all the murders that kill for no reason get off on an insanity plea? If so, should we release Charlie Manson?, or all the hundreds in jail like him? Send them to the hospital and hope they will change their ways? Release them after a few years of treatment and take our chances that they are fine citizens after the treatment? Hmmm I hope not!
She was sane enough to be happy with the results of the trial.
Just saying.........
 
Truly a double edge sword topic....my observations...

She planned to kill them in that window of opportunity....insane???
Five children are now gone at her hands....tragic beyond words!!!
Her husband insisted on having more children....why - responsible??
The system failed Ms. Yates...accountable or not??

End result -

Hubby is off free to live...
Ms. Yates will live in a psych place, but nothing can bring those babies back.

Since its impossible to bring those children back to the world, I would hope that Ms. Yates is able to shed some new knowledge and contribute something to society in better understanding her condition for future insurance, medical, and education knowledge; however, if they EVER release her - which I hope not - they had better tie her tubes.....maybe harsh, but too many illnesses are unpredictable.

Events like this are make me question many things - - many many - I cannot even say her first name.
 
I truly don't know all the ins and outs of this disease, or a number of other mental illnesses as well. But I do know that there really are a number of sides to everyone's story. My DH is a lawyer and his practice is exclusively death penalty - he represents murderers on death row. I'm a former prosecutor. I've always supported the death penalty - guilty is guilty.

However, one of his clients was Alton Coleman - the guy upon which the film Natural Born Killers was based. I never met Alton but I did speak with him on the phone a number of times. I have some of the most beautiful free hand drawings, art pieces, and heartfelt cards that you can imagine. You cannot believe these came from such a brutal killer. My point is that I think sometimes there really is a very fine line between gifted and sick.

Alton always maintained that the worst thing that happened in his life was when a good samaritan pulled him out of the trash can that his mama threw him in at 5 days old. His grandmother began pimping him out to men when he was 3 years old. His entire life was torture, drugs, abuse, violent sex - all backed up by the words "I love you baby." We all know that we should be able to break the chains that may imprison us, but sometimes what should happen just doesn't - and we get the tragedy. I am so sickened by the loss of those children, by the lack of accountability of her husband, and by the whole scenario. But I wasn't in Andrea Yates' head, and I sure don't know what was going on there. I just wish there was some way we could get to and help every case. We can't. So we have to make damn sure that we hug our own kids a lttle tighter and teach them how to make a difference too.

Sorry so long. I will add that Alton has since been executed. Someday I will have to decide what to do with his artwork. Ugh.

Lorrie


"Pain is temporary - quitting lasts forever"
Candace Grasso, CC-V-6
 
I agree with all posters who say that the effects of mental illness are underestimated. However, if you know the difference between right and wrong, you are responsible for your own actions. This remains constant regardless of the severity of the mental illness.

This woman waited until no one was around because she knew it was wrong, and didn't want to be stopped. Yes, she was insane, but still culpable because she knew it was wrong. I am not saying she didn't have severe PPD, or that she doesn't deserve to be helped. But she should never, ever be freed. Mentally ill or not, I don't want her within 100 miles of my child.

These precious children are gone because many people turned a blind eye. The doctors, the hospitals, and absolutely the husband. He had several beautiful children, and should have fixed himself when warned by the doctor that his wife should not have more children. He deserves some form of punishment.

Don't even get me started on that preacher! This nutball should spend ten years living on a bus with ten kids and a wife who works.

But let us not forget that the mother was told not to have more children. If she had the ability to plan the murder of her kids, she was able to understand her doctor's warning. She chose to ignore it.

I don't think anyone would call Charles Manson, Ted Bundy, or Jeffrey Dahmer sane. But imagine the outcry if they had been judged "Not Guilty." The Yates woman does not deserve better treatment because she had a disease exclusive to women. If she were properly warned, and it sounds like she had been, she had a responsibility to stop having children.

None of us would be angry if she had run away and left the kids with her husband. But in trying to understand her mental illness, let's not forget the innocent victims. There are millions of mentally ill people who beat their children. I watched my bipolar stepfather beat his son daily, and I constantly feared I'd be next. Yes, he was mentally ill, but that doesn't alleviate my horrible memories.
 
Having had a family member murdered and having had his killer get off by reason of insanity, I also think the verdict is insane. Our murder happened in 1978 to a 17 year old by a school teacher, they are STILL trying to let this murderer either go to a less secure place or let him home on weekends. This happens every few years because he "is doing so much better". I could go on, this hit's very close to home and I will NEVER understand this kind of verdict - without them ever having to do and " real hard time" for their crime.
 

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