What's worse than the "octo-mom"?

[hiitdogs]

Too funny, you sure love to stir the pot. And please keep contributing to Octo Mom, she will need to get her lips re-plumped in 6 months.

How am I stirring the pot? All I said was maybe she got her manicure as a present and I am being told I am a bleeding heart who needs to cough up her pay check.

Some of you guys are getting obsessed with everything that woman does. Geez!

 

[autumn]

I think the problem lies more in people not wanting to talk to their kids about sex and birth control, not wanting their kids exposed to any of that or even don't know how to talk to their kids about it. Even if the parents try to shield their kids, unfortunately that results in kids with raging hormones and not knowing enough about the dangers of pregnancy and STDs.

Many parents won't even agree to let their kids attend classes in school which specifically talk about those subjects. Whereas I think it is a noble goal to teach kids abstinence, reality is that most of the kids won't obide by that. And whereas I don't want my kids to enter into anything prematurely, I prefer that they know what problems could result from that and protect themselves accordingly. That however, I can only ensure by talking to them.

Based on my experience with teen girls, I agree. I know some parents feel it is their responsibility as parents to teach their children; therefore, they opt out of sex ed in schools. I can respect this as long as the parents follow through and talk to their kids. If the parents fail to prepare their children either themselves or through school-based sex ed, their children will learn from their peers. Trust me, kids tell other kids the darndest things about sex.

 

[mabdoo]

I think there is waaaay more openness about sex these days. Just the other day I was sitting in my classroom at lunch and kids were in eating their lunches. The teacher I share the room with and I were not part of their conversation. The kids were talking about getting braizilian waxes! As soon as we overhead this we redirected the conversation. Can you believe it?

As a teenager my friends and I were certainly not perfect but we never, ever talked about stuff like that in front of teachers. Our biggest things were missing curfew and making out in the woods. Kids nowadays have no trouble talking about parties they are hosting, planning, who is going out with whom, who is a whore, etc. in front of the faculty. It amazes me.

 

[ImFiddY]

How am I stirring the pot? All I said was maybe she got her manicure as a present and I am being told I am a bleeding heart who needs to cough up her pay check.

Some of you guys are getting obsessed with everything that woman does. Geez!

You LOVE to play devil's advocate as your posting history shows. Boo's post did not single you out, it was a blanket observation.

 

[hiitdogs]

You LOVE to play devil's advocate as your posting history shows. Boo's post did not single you out, it was a blanket observation.

You seem quite interested in my posting history.

If you refer to "playing devil's advocate" in a sense that I feel that people should not be judged without having personal knowledge about them and their life, yes absolutely. There has been a lot of condemnation and judgemental remarks on this board lately and I find some of the remarks appalling.

 

[ImFiddY]

If you refer to "playing devil's advocate" in a sense that I feel that people should not be judged without having personal knowledge about them and their life, yes absolutely. There has been a lot of condemnation and judgemental remarks on this board lately and I find some of the remarks appalling.

I do agree people can be very harsh. But you are going to get tired on your soapbox because it's human nature to judge.

 

[hiitdogs]

I do agree people can be very harsh. But you are going to get tired on your soapbox because it's human nature to judge.

You are probably right that it is human nature to judge but that doesn't mean that we all need to be satisfied with that and stay mum instead of trying to change things.

 

[groovy]

Groovy

Alfie was 12 when he fathered the baby. He looks like a baby himself. He was asked: " what will you do financially?" & he replied " what's financially?"
In Britain we have the highest teenage pregnancy rate in Western Europe.
Another example ; a girl of 17 who has a 2 year old son is expecting triplets with a second partner. She is receiving welfare benefits of £ 1,126 a month, which includes rent etc...
Welfare benefits for many in the Uk are for life!

Olga

 

[mabdoo]

Quote: "Welfare benefits for many in the UK are for life."

Same in the US. For many it is a cradle to grave handout. Help those in need but do something to get yourself on your feet.

 

[DeborahG]

QUOTE: "As for Nadya, she exercised her reproductive rights. I may not agree with her choices, but the SC & lawmakers support a woman's right to make reproductive health decisions."



I don't understand why some confuse "reproductive rights" with "reproductive irresponsibility." I suspect many, if not all, of the women posting in the "OctoMom" threads support women's reproductive rights. Just because someone is critical about how someone exercises a right does not mean he or she believes that that right should not exist or should be taken away. Rights can be exercised responsibly, or they can be exercised irresponsibly. This woman exercised her right to reproduce very, very irresponsibly. The children and the public will pay for that.

 

[hiitdogs]

QUOTE:


I don't understand why some confuse "reproductive rights" with "reproductive irresponsibility." I suspect many, if not all, of the women posting in the "OctoMom" threads support women's reproductive rights. Just because someone is critical about how someone exercises a right does not mean he or she believes that that right should not exist or should be taken away. Rights can be exercised responsibly, or they can be exercised irresponsibly. This woman exercised her right to reproduce very, very irresponsibly. The children and the public will pay for that.

I don't think anyone confuses reproductive rights with reproductive irresponsibility. I agree that it is irresponsible to have that many kids and I wouldn't do it. But I think there is a difference between being critical and flat out slamming someone.

I can agree that her choice was a poor one at the very least but that does not mean that it gives either of us the right to attack her personally. We still don't know all the facts but are quick to jump to conclusions. It is one thing to disagree with someone's choices and decisions but some of the angry remarks are really disturbing.

That being said, if you start putting limits on reproductive rights we will be walking a slippery slope. After all communist countries like China regulate the reproductive rights of its citizens and I think for a free society you can't go down that route without serious implications like who is going to make the decision what is responsible, what is irresponsible, how many kids are enough, etc.

 

[DeborahG]

That being said, if you start putting limits on reproductive rights we will be walking a slippery slope. After all communist countries like China regulate the reproductive rights of its citizens and I think for a free society you can't go down that route without serious implications like who is going to make the decision what is responsible, what is irresponsible, how many kids are enough, etc.

Again, I think most were not advocating putting limits on reproductive rights, nor am I. They were taking the position that, in this case, those rights were exercised irresponsibly. That was my point, and it again evoked a "don't limit reproductive rights" response.

Because you raised reproductive rights, though, I will add my two cents. I believe that, while reprductive rights are primarily a women's issue, there is a competing interest involved in this case -- that of the child/children. I am a firm supporter of reproductive rights, yet I do not feel such rights are "dangerously" imposed upon by, for instance, a regulation prohibiting the implantation of 10 embryos at once, when such a procedure is universally understood to impose great risks not only on the woman, but on the multiple children who may result. Do you think a woman should have such a right, knowing that the chances are significant that at least some of the surviving children will suffer disabilities? I think, in such an instance, the rights of the children she is choosing to bring into the world must also be considered. And I do not see such a regulation as likely to result in a communist-like control over women's reproductive rights.

I don't disagree with you that many people judge before knowing enough to even make a judgment. I'm sure I'm guilty of doing so on occasion. In this instance, I think there is enough known at this point to say, at a minimum, that this woman's decision was irresponsible. Perhaps you can make a case that her decision was responsible, knowing what we know about it, but I certainly would be hard-pressed to do so.

 

[booboo39]

Boy, you got some anger issues!

I am putting my money where my mouth is. You don't have the faintest idea what I do in my life. And until you know that I suggest you don't make unqualified remarks about what I do with my money and my life.

Carola,

My observation and comment regarding those who support that baby pez dispenser is simply a GENERAL observation and comment. Nothing more than that, not a direct attack or insinuation of any kind on your views. As I said before and will reiterate, to those who champion her actions, great! I also applaud those whose opinion goes against most social mores and do not take personal offense when they choose to publicly voice said opinions that may be in stark contrast to mine.

I am old enough and wise enough not to to be offended by someone else's opinion simply because it differs from mine and do not feel that such opinions are an affront to me personally. I hope you can sleep better tonight when I share with you that you are absolutely correct, I do not have the faintest idea what you do nor am I interested. If I was, I would not have any temerity in stating so. With that said I thank you most kindly for your interest in my mental health as far as my anger is concerned. As you can now read, my anger issues are kept well in check. Have a terrific weekend.
Booboo

 

[autumn]

QUOTE: "As for Nadya, she exercised her reproductive rights. I may not agree with her choices, but the SC & lawmakers support a woman's right to make reproductive health decisions."




I don't understand why some confuse "reproductive rights" with "reproductive irresponsibility." I suspect many, if not all, of the women posting in the "OctoMom" threads support women's reproductive rights. Just because someone is critical about how someone exercises a right does not mean he or she believes that that right should not exist or should be taken away. Rights can be exercised responsibly, or they can be exercised irresponsibly. This woman exercised her right to reproduce very, very irresponsibly. The children and the public will pay for that.

Did someone question any poster's support of women's reproductive rights?

 

[DeborahG]

Did someone question any poster's support of women's reproductive rights?

When a poster responds to other posts with an argument regarding the need to protect reproductive rights, the implication is that the person(s) to whom the poster is responding is not as committed to the protection of reproductive rights as the poster thinks she should be. I have seen this come up a few times in the various octo-mom discussions.

 

[autumn]

When a poster responds to other posts with an argument regarding the need to protect reproductive rights, the implication is that the person(s) to whom the poster is responding is not as committed to the protection of reproductive rights as the poster thinks she should be. I have seen this come up a few times in the various octo-mom discussions.

Got it! I thought I missed something on this thread.

ETA: Oh my, I see there has been a lot posted on this subject. Off to read.

I read the other threads.... WOW. Some nasty comments. I didn't find posts that implied anyone was "not as committed to the protection of reproductive rights as the poster thinks she should be". There are different philosophies on reproductive rights though, and I suspect each of us is committed to our philosophy - whatever that philosophy may be.

 

[hiitdogs]

Perhaps you can make a case that her decision was responsible, knowing what we know about it, but I certainly would be hard-pressed to do so.

I am not making a case that it is a responsible decision on her part. As I have said above I think it is irresponsible.

What I am saying is that it is that at this point from a legal point of view she is entitled to make those decisions. I also said that she did make a poor choice but that does not justify some of the personal attacks and language. Despite of the fact that she has done something, in my opinion incredibly stupid and irresponsible there is no need to degrade her physical attributes or shortcomings nor her mental status.

I still haven't heard if the doctor in fact implanted 8 embryos or if it was less than that. What if she had 6 kids and had 4 embryos implanted and was anticipating that not all of them take and she might have 1 or 2? And instead the 4 implanted turned to 8 babies. Would that change the picture? Just curious!

 

[hiitdogs]

Carola,

My observation and comment regarding those who support that baby pez dispenser is simply a GENERAL observation and comment. Nothing more than that, not a direct attack or insinuation of any kind on your views. As I said before and will reiterate, to those who champion her actions, great! I also applaud those whose opinion goes against most social mores and do not take personal offense when they choose to publicly voice said opinions that may be in stark contrast to mine.

I am old enough and wise enough not to to be offended by someone else's opinion simply because it differs from mine and do not feel that such opinions are an affront to me personally. I hope you can sleep better tonight when I share with you that you are absolutely correct, I do not have the faintest idea what you do nor am I interested. If I was, I would not have any temerity in stating so. With that said I thank you most kindly for your interest in my mental health as far as my anger is concerned. As you can now read, my anger issues are kept well in check. Have a terrific weekend.
Booboo

I am not offended by differing opinions. I am offended by the language that is used.

 

[autumn]

I still haven't heard if the doctor in fact implanted 8 embryos or if it was less than that. What if she had 6 kids and had 4 embryos implanted and was anticipating that not all of them take and she might have 1 or 2? And instead the 4 implanted turned to 8 babies. Would that change the picture? Just curious!

I read the doc implanted 6 - he definitely exceeded the guidelines.

 

[mabdoo]

I also heard he implanted six which means two multiplied. Didn't she also have another pregnancy that multiplied? When speaking with a ob-gyn about this the other day he said that is it really, really, really rare to have happen once let alone twice within one pregnancy. Implanting 6 does seem a little excessive. What about Kate of Jon and Kate plus 8? She had 6 babies the second time. What is her story then?