this Mel Gibson thing?

I guess I was less surprised by the fact that he was an alcoholic (seems to be the norm in Hollywood) than the anti-Semetic (sp?) comments he made. I'm disappointed because just because someone's drunk, doesn't mean they say things that are completely out of character. I mean, if I were wasted, I still wouldn't turn into a racist! Alcoholism is something that can be treated; bigotry is a different monster.

I still admire his work as an actor and director. But he's someone I will consider more carefully now, rather than blatantly admiring!
 
Melody,
I have no problem forgiving Mel Gibson or anyone else for their self-declared mistakes. But Mel Gibson has not asked for forgiveness for his long-held intolerant views. It is his kind of intolerance that has caused so much unnecessary pain in the lives of so many innocent people. To forgive such attitudes rather than to raise your voice against them is to allow such attitudes to prevail in my opinion.

I, too, am forgiving my father for his mistakes. But he is gone, and there is nothing further to be done to stop him. The attitudes of people like Mel Gibson, however, are still causing harm, and I for one feel a duty to speak out against such attitudes at every possible opportunity.
-Nancy
 
Sorry, but that's just not true. Freedom of speech has it's limitations (you can't shout fire in a crowded theater & all that). People get charged with hate crimes for painting swastikas on private & public property, why would shouting anti-Jewish slurs at an officer of the law be viewed differently? The written word & the spoken word are considered the same in the eyes of the law.
 
HB, that was his second apology after his first apology was severely criticized. It would have had more meaning if he had said those things initially, however, better late than never.
-Nancy
 
Laura, I understand what you are saying but what I am saying is that I don't think it should be a hate crime. He may very well be charged as such, but I believe 100 percent in freedom of speech and think Mel or anyone can shout whatever they want. The problem with these vague hate crime laws, especially when they are applied to the spoken word, is that they intrude on people's right to have an opinion on something. When a rapper says something like " I'm down for runnin' up on them crackers in they city hall" is that a hate crime or an opinion?

Freedom of speech has very narrow limitations. I believe the whole "fire in a crowded theatre" thing was overturned years ago (lawyers on the board, correct me if I am wrong). Incidentally, that was used to argue successfully that anti-draft protesters shouldn't be allowed to pass out anti-war pamphlets during World War 1. I think few of us today would argue that that particular ruling was a huge violation of free speech.

It's my experience that the law doesn't treat written and spoken speech as the same thing. Mel could write an anti-Semitic book and no one would even dream of charging him with a hate crime. They might rant and rave against him but he would be considered well within his rights.

Sorry to go off but this is a topic near and dear to me. Freedom of speech is intended to protect ugly, unpopular words. The nice words don't need protecting. For some reason we've forgotten that in this country, and we keep chipping away at freedom of speech, under the guise of making everyone "play nice" with each other. But you can't force people to like each other by silencing their beliefs. Pretty soon we will be like Sweden where a professor was charged, fined and jailed for stating that he did not think homosexuality was normal. Thrown in jail for expressing an opinion! I'm sorry but I'd rather deal with bigoted speech than live in that sort of Orwellian nightmare.

Sorry to rant :D i'd love to hear what others think on this. Hopefully we can keep it pleasant and respectful.

Sparrow


Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming ‘Wow - what a ride!’ — Peter Sage
 
Sparrow,

I'm in complete agreement with you on freedom of speech. After hearing Ari Fleischer make the statement that all Americans "...need to watch what they say, watch what they do...", I've had a heightened awareness of the limitations that some lawmakers want to put on our 1st amendment rights. It's a slippery slope that we don't want to go down.

That being said, it is my opinion that Mel Gibson is a bonehead. :)
 
>Sparrow,
>
>I'm in complete agreement with you on freedom of speech. After
>hearing Ari Fleischer make the statement that all Americans
>"...need to watch what they say, watch what they do...", I've
>had a heightened awareness of the limitations that some
>lawmakers want to put on our 1st amendment rights. It's a
>slippery slope that we don't want to go down.
>
>That being said, it is my opinion that Mel Gibson is a
>bonehead. :)

LOL Gayle. I agree. I've thought he was looney for years.

Sparrow

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming ‘Wow - what a ride!’ — Peter Sage
 
Nancy,

I don't think my post (did it?) said people shouldn't speak out for wrongs against others? My goodness, that's what I've based my entire adult life on in my fight against child abuse and the abusers. I apologize if my post was misunderstood.

I do, however, forgive people even though they do not ask for forgiveness. Harboring such unforgiveness inside of me causes great stress and propagates more anger. The world has enough anger without my non-forgiveness creating more.
 
>The "can't shout fire in a crowded theater" hasn't been
>overturned. At least not before my con law classes in the
>early '90s.
>
>Here's some stuff that might give an idea of the point I'm
>trying to get across:
>
>http://www.aztlan.net/jews_want_gibson_prosecuted.htm
>
>http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=1107012006
>
>
>
>

Hey Laura,

It was my understanding that Schneck vs. US had been overturned/weakened by Brandenberg. But, like you, it's been a long time since my Constitutional Law classes and I could be dead wrong.

I read the articles and I guess I am missing your point. Saying that Jews are responsible "for all the effing wars" is an opinion. It's not a call to action or an incitement to riot against Jews. Again, I am not defending HIM or his supporting his words, just expressing my belief in his right to say them. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree :)

Sparrow

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming ‘Wow - what a ride!’ — Peter Sage
 
I just wanted to say that I have heard drunks say some pretty terrible things, and about people in their own families. What he did was wrong, I just hope that he can conquer these demons and become a better person. Society would benefit from that as a whole. If he weren't Mel Gibson I don't think there would be all this debate over his comments. Goes to show you money does not make the person.
 
Hey, I thought that what constitutes a hate crime is when a person commits a crime against another where the motive is hate for the race, ethnicity or sexual orientation of the victim. In that context I would say that an anti-semitic rant uttered while being arrested for driving under the influence of alchohol does not a hate crime make. Unless of course the slope is even more slippery than I thought it was!!
 
Mel, when you said people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones in response to the posts on this thread, it seemed like you were saying that we shouldn't be criticizing MG. I agree with you that there are two different issues: forgiveness is an internal matter, where speaking out against intolerance is a civic matter. In any event, MG did come through in his second apology, and has now stated that intolerance is wrong. I appreciate that he did that.
-Nancy
 
Nancy,

I wasn't speaking only in regard to MG in my post.

My point was that not one of us is blameless; not one of us leads the life of another; not one of us can ever get inside another's head...thereby, we can't ever really know the whole story in regard to anyone or a specific situation.

Myself, you, anyone and everyone should speak out against what one believes to be wrong.

I knew better than to post in one of these threads. Sorry, I'm not always the best at getting my thoughts across.
 
Interesting - not the brightest thing Mel has probably done. But I wonder if people would make a big stink about it if he had said something anti-catholic/anti-christian in general.....

I think in this day and age we are more sensitive to anti-semitism or anything anti-jewish bc of what happened to the Jewish people not that long ago.......

I agree that its not a hate crime - ridiculous to say that - he was just being a bonehead drunk!

As much money as he has - why not hire a driver or grab a taxi?? DUH - the fact that he drank and drove his car endangers the lives of innocent people and is way more offensive to me than what some idiot drunk guy says...........just my opinion
 
>Interesting - not the brightest thing Mel has probably done.
>But I wonder if people would make a big stink about it if he
>had said something anti-catholic/anti-christian in
>general.....

Or flipping this around - would people be so willing to forgive him his transgressions if his rant was anti-catholic/christian?

I think the sword cuts both ways.

At any rate, this incident has just underscored for me how utterly hypocritical most celebrities are. They seek fame and fortune and then whine constantly that they're constantly in the spotlight (I don't see any of them whining about their $20MM paychecks, though). I think it's unfortunate that more celebrities aren't civic minded and don't use their great wealth and exposure to raise awareness of issues like intolerance and bigotry in general.

I really just think he's an idiot at this point, which is too bad, considering he's really a terrific actor.

Marie
 
I am sorry, but I think many people are making judgements about Mr Gibson's character. Which they know nothing about. Even his little tirade does not speak to his character. HE WAS UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF ALCOHOL!!! My father was an alcoholic. It killed him ultimately. He was a wonderful man when he was sober. When he was drinking he was a mean person. He was very abuse verbally and physically. People have been saying that Mr Gibson was just saying how he truley felt because alcohol is like truth serum. Well, me thinks this is not necessarily the case. My father was not a mean man, but the alcohol was made him into a person he was not. JMOFWIW.

ETA: I am not condoning his conduct, just saying he may not or should not be held responsible for what he said while under the influence.

Catherine

http://bestsmileys.com/exercising/1.gif
 
"...not one of us is blameless; not one of us leads the life of another; not one of us can ever get inside another's head...thereby, we can't ever really know the whole story in regard to anyone or a specific situation.

Myself, you, anyone and everyone should speak out against what one believes to be wrong."

Well said, and I totally agree. :)
-Nancy
 
I am also glad he is getting negative publicity! I have always thought he is a self serving indulgent jerk. Alchohol is a truth serum. I have been drunk before and NEVER would I say any biggoted remarks about Jewish people because I don't truly feel that way. I guess also I am feeling a little slighted because I work for two men who are jewish. They are the sweetest most caring people I have met and it makes me sick to think that people judge Jewish people in that stereotypical way. From what I can tell of the Jewish community, they appear to be a giving group of people. It gets old hearing uneducated, small minded people bash others for different beliefs. I hope his career is ruined!
 
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