The often debated too much cardio/muscle loss

meowracer

Cathlete
I read in Oxygen this month about this topic and it was explained better than I had ever seen it. Maybe I read it at the right time, in the right frame of mind, and the words were just right...don't know. Anyway, thought I would share was was said, taken word for word from the magazine...

The question was: "I recently returned to the gym after a long hiatus. I'm stepping up the cardio to lose fat, but worry about losing muscle. What's a girl to do?"

Answer: "First of all, if you step up the cardio but don't eat enough of the healthy stuff to help you recover after your workouts, you'll quickly become a thin-fat person. This is because your body will hold on to any fat you might have in order to "survive." You need to eat- both significantly and well - to lose body fat. "She needs to do both [cardio and eat] to strike a balance. It's not the cardio that will eat muscle; it's under eating and doing too much cardio that eats at muscle," says Keith Klein, founder and CEO of the Institute of Eating Management in Houston, Texas.

Here's a tip: Ask yourself if you want to look like an Olympic sprinter or a long-distance runner. Sprinters appear lean, look much stronger and have beautiful, shapely muscles because they train by doing high intensities for shorter periods of time - similar to many figure models. It's what Klein calls "high-intensity interval cardio training." He explains that performing cardio at high intensity for a short amount of time is the best way to reach your goal of a lean, well-toned physique. (And who wouldn't want to look like a figure model?) We recommend 30 minutes on the elliptical machine or stepmill. (The rolling stairs - yes, the hard one.) According to Klein, if you can do more than 30 minutes you're not working hard enough. You should be completely worn out after 30 minutes of high-intensity intervals. Start cranking up the intensity as high as you can safely manage and going until you can no longer catch your breath. Lower the intensity for a minute or two until you regain proper breathing and increase it again and go hard until you can't go anymore. Continue this pattern until 30 minutes are up, and repeat this five times a week. With a sound nutrition plan of six small meals a day that consist of one lean, high-quality protein, one serving of complex carbs and plenty of fresh fruits and vegetables, you'll begin to see results within a couple of weeks. And keep up the resistance training too, but there's no need to overdo it; stick to a modest three or four times a week. Klein says that if the circumference of your thigh is greater than 20 inches, you can take a pass on thigh training for a while and rely on your cardio to lean out and tone your legs. On your three designated resistance-training days, be sure to hit your back and shoulders (day one), chest (day two) and arms (day three). Good luck!"

Personally, I like to do weights more often and depending on what machine or cardio I am doing, I may very well go over the 30 minutes and enjoy it! (Cardio Coach for instance.) On my stepmill, just over 30 minutes and I am about tired but on the treadmill, 30 minutes isn't often enough. What I have done is increased my eating but I would love to hear from anyone who does more of what is suggested in this article. What I got from the article, for me, is that I can do cardio often without worry of losing muscle as long as I eat properly and continue weight training (but I'm just not sure about the one body part per week.)
 
Five days of HIIT? Really? I was under the impression that that would be too much.

Looking forward to hearing how our fellow Catheites weigh in on this one. Thanks for posting, Shana.
 
Thank you...

....this has been a question within myself. I am a cardio junkie....so cutting back for me I KNOW will be torture!!! But, I'll have to give it a try!!! I finally, after lifting for 3 years.....changed my weights lifting to isolated parts each time. I am really and truly surprised that I actually like it. It's a preference now rather than full body resistance all in one day.

Thank you for posting this. It was great brain food!
 
Five days of HIIT? Really? I was under the impression that that would be too much.

Looking forward to hearing how our fellow Catheites weigh in on this one. Thanks for posting, Shana.


i would have thought so too. i kind of like oxygen magazine(great workouts and meal plans) but really do take with grain of salt. first half the magazine is stupid fat burner ads. i understand the need to make money but there are other fitness products one could endorse. and second the editor, robert kennedey, is so convinced(well i am just going by his "from the editor" page)he KNOWS about women's fitness and has the all knowing info that will make you look like a fitness model. sorry but for ME the only male i listen to is the dr. that spent over 7-10 years of his life studying the human body,even then only i know my body. and i know 5 days of workouts similar to IMAX(30 min. or 60 min) would have me crying of knee and hip pain, worn out(no matter what i eat), and just plan resentful of exercise(can you imagine no variety i would lose it)

i do like the meal plans and recipes. i guess it depends on ones goals but for me, its hard enough to gain muscle in the upper body but if i cut out my cardio then i start to see my middle half gain alot more weight. i just mix up my cardio in style and intensity and that works fine for me. but i guess if you are looking to compete then maybe he is right(although i am still not convinced he knows the working of a women's hormonal system LOL)

kassia
 
Five days of HIIT? Really? I was under the impression that that would be too much.

Me too Cathy but ya know Alwyn has 4 days of HIIT in stage 2 of his Afterburn program. Not sure if he allocates more then that in later stages though. The fitness world is always updating it's findings so perhaps things have changed and now it's OKAY to do HIIT several times per week. This style of cardio training has certainly become all the rage as of late!:)
 
I only agree with the first paragraph of the article.
The rest is like any other diet or training theory that gives absolutes.
There are not absolutes. It all comes down to the individual and what works for them.

Since the article brought up figure competitors, I thought I would post this article.

http://www.figureathlete.com/article/training/the_cardio_secret&cr=mwaTraining

I read the fitness journals on the figure forums to get an idea how they eat and train. No surprise, they all eat different and train different.
Some women do up to 1 hours of cardio twice a day for 15 weeks to cut for a show. Obviously you wouldn't want to do that long term because your body would adapt. It seems most all agree to do only steady state cardio if you are doing cardio in a fasted state first thing in the morning.
 
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I only agree with the first paragraph of the article.
The rest is like any other diet or training theory that gives absolutes.
There are not absolutes. It all comes down to the individual and what works for them.

Since the article brought up figure competitors,

there is a movie documentary coming out where one fitness competitor mentions(no names though) that many women you wouldn't expect doing steroids, plastic surgery, and EXTREME dieting to try to get that top place. not saying all are like this, probably many aren't. that is why i take many of magazines with a grain of salt with the ABSOLUTE way to train b/c its not for all. on http://www.bodybuilding.com the newsletter i get shows bodybuilders of all types and fitness models and as mentioned many do more cardio some do total body workouts, some only do splits some eat 7 meals a day some eat 3-5. its all in the person though. like i said i would be worn out with that much HIIT training in a week.its all in your body and your goals.
 
WOW cynthia thanks for the article. i like the workout plans but man did you see some of those calorie counts?!!! :eek: i hardly ever go that low for that many days. i also tend to,not unpurpose, cycle calories. some days i am just less hungry then others but rarely do i fall below 1400 a day. esp. when i work during the school year and i am running around for 5 hours straight without sitting down. i admire their devotion to their sport, but not for me thanks LOL :p

kassia

ETA: i didn't think she looked bad in that before pic but then again its so hard to tell true health just by looking at somebody. what a heck of a transformation.
 
I'm in complete agreement w/Cynthia. Everyone is different, & everyone's body will respond to different routines.

Personally, I just do the stuff I enjoy. After 20 years of intense training, I'm tired & I just wanna have fun. ;) I rarely, if ever, do HIIT. KB is my favorite cardio, steady state step a close second. And I can't remember the last time I only did 30 minutes of cardio! It seems so short!

So, I do cardio 6-7 days a week, 45-60 minutes. I weight train 4 times a week. I have most definitely NOT experienced muscle loss. If anything, I'd have to say the opposite.

I can't read fitness mags anymore. They're too confusing and, like the Bible or the US Constitution, for every one thing you read you can find 10 things that say the opposite. :p
 
Well, guess I can skip legs today, as my own thighs measure 21 inches around at the very top! heehee.:p

I have always done alot of both frankly, weights and cardio. I have a endo/meso body type and work hard to stay lean. I am not naturally lean and small, so there ya have it. But I can do this as it takes a heck of alot of exercise for me to become "overtrained" as it was.

Thanks for posting this article Shana, I love the differing points of view, even though it makes it frustrating at times. I agree, one size does not fit all..right now I have discovered the kettlebells and am loving these workouts, so am waiting to see the results after doing these consistently for three or four months time.
 
Shana and Cynthia, thank you so much for posting these articles. They're very timely for me because, for the first time in years, I've been serious about making changes in my diet and exercise program. There's a lot here to consider. ;)
 
WOW cynthia thanks for the article. i like the workout plans but man did you see some of those calorie counts?!!! :eek: i hardly ever go that low for that many days. i also tend to,not unpurpose, cycle calories. some days i am just less hungry then others but rarely do i fall below 1400 a day. esp. when i work during the school year and i am running around for 5 hours straight without sitting down. i admire their devotion to their sport, but not for me thanks LOL :p

It is amazing what they have to do to prepare for a competition.
From what I can tell low calories/low carbs is what most of the figure athletes do during the last stages of cutting before a competition.
I read their journals to see how they deal with it. One gal was training on low carbs/low calories and teaching spin classes in between her own training sessions. I could just feel the agony reading her journal.

From what I've read about Alywn Cosgrove's Warp Speed weight loss, it looks like his diet plan is close to a figure competitors diet. I read somewhere the calories go as low as 9 calories per pound of bodyweight. For a 120lb woman, that is low!
I've gone that low for brief periods. No more than 2 weeks because I would go insane. It does work!
 
I suspect those who mentioned the danger of absolutes are correct. It would be nice if one formula worked for all, but that's likely not the case.

I know I cut back cardio to 3 days, 10 to 15 minutes total, and lost weight. But, I also kicked up the weight training and started watching my diet, so who knows.

I'm playing with periodizing my cardio now, currently doing about 30-40 minutes, 3 days a week plus one circuit day. I'll do that for another week and then start a new rotation with GS. I'm not yet certain what I'll do with the cardio...if I'll increase or decrease the time.

My results from the last 3 weeks of increased cardio: I did drop another pound, and I look like I've lost more around the waist. I am experiencing some joint pain in the ankles and knees, which is brand new. I'm not sure if my body just doesn't like the extra impact more cardio brings, or if I need better shoes (that's been an experiment too). Plus I didn't really rest properly between my first S&H rotation and this current, circuit-like rotation. I'm thinking I should have, as I was really tired.

I'm anxious to see what will happen after my next two rotations (GS and then S&H). I'll take a proper rest week and then hit a high cardio, circuit rotation and see what that does.
 
..right now I have discovered the kettlebells and am loving these workouts, so am waiting to see the results after doing these consistently for three or four months time.

I'm right with you. I just received my first 3 kbells this week. I haven't used them yet because I'm waiting on my Art of Strength training clinic dvd's. I'm loving Anthony now...
http://www.artofstrength.com/MinuteofStrengthENews/MinuteofStrength2/tabid/215/Default.aspx

Do you have any favorite workouts you could share?
 
Personally, his rhetorical question "Who wouldn't want to look like a figure model?" clinched my opinion of his advice. My answer is "Uh, not me!" so I don't think I'll be following his plan. For me, his program would have been a one way ticket to burn out and injury. I'll stick with Cathe's rotations which always have a sensible balance of higher intensity, interval cardio, SS cardio, strength work, stretching, and rest. JMHO.
 
Sprinters vs. Marathoners

What I found interesting about the article was its comparison of sprinters vs. marathoners, and the implication that marathoners are not as lean as sprinters. I've done Team in Training for 4 years now, and I can honestly say that marathoners come in all shapes and sizes--and some of them have the lean look of a "sprinter" too. As someone above posted, it really is about the individual and how each of us reacts to exercise/nutrition.

I'm really hoping that huge amounts of cardio won't sabotage my muscle-building. I'm training for a marathon right now and have no choice but to do all of the cardio--it's the only way for me to build the stamina to complete the race! If I have to sacrifice some muscle, then I hope it'll be minimal, but I plan to go back to a more balanced approach once the race is over...
 
Personally, his rhetorical question "Who wouldn't want to look like a figure model?" clinched my opinion of his advice. My answer is "Uh, not me!" so I don't think I'll be following his plan.

*nods* I admire the discipline it took for the figure model in that link to get the body she competed with, but I definitely do not want to look like that.
 
I agree - I don't think long distance runners look bad. I wouldn't mind looking like many of the runners I see at races and in magazines/on TV.

My body genetically won't every look like a sprinter's body. I can't put on that kind of muscle.

I do agree with the point that you have to feed your body the right foods and the right amount of foods to keep it lean and healthy. A lot of exercise with a deficient diet will only cause problems in the long run.
 

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