taught Rhythmic Step today...

S

SeasunZ

Member
Hi Cathe.
I taught all of Rhythmic Step today during my 9:15 am class. They loved it! Ofcourse I gave you all the credit! I told them that you are my absolute favorite instuctor. They always love it when I teach your stuff! Some of my members are now planning on visiting your site and ordering some videos for thier home workouts. I plan on killing them on Sunday with some stuff from Leaner Legs. Wish me luck! Thanks for all of the great choreography. Step Works was my favorite up till now!
 
Hi,

I'm sorry if I sound negative, but isn't there a conflict on interest going on here?

My point is that Cathe is in the business of creating *home*
videos, and if you're copying her workouts for your own classes at your gym (that's my assumption), what's the motivation for your students to buy them and do them at home? Personally, I don't think I'd be thrilled to know that all the hard work I put into a video was being used by someone else for her own profit.

I know I sound like the biggest naysayer of all time, but this just doesn't sound ethical to me. If I'm wrong about this, please correct me.

Joyce
 
Hi Joyce, I definitely see your point and can agree with you and I pretty much had the same reaction a little bit. But I feel SeasunZ probably wasn't intending for it to be taken this way. It would be interesting to hear Cathe's feeling on this, if its not too touchy of a subject. I also see other posts here and there about people teaching Cathe's steps and I wonder if they ever feel kind of wierd about doing it. Just my thoughts.

Kim
 
Joyce,
How do you think we instructors learn new choreography? We learn from eachother for your information. IF Cathe doesn't like it, Cathe can tell me herself. I am not the only instructor who teaches Cathe's choreography. I have many instructor friends and we all buy videos, not just Cathe videos, and we buy them for the sole purpose of getting new choreography. Not only do I use Cathe's stuff but I also use Christi Taylor, Franny Bennendetto, Andre Houle, just to name a few.
I am a mother of 2 small boys, I do not have the time to work on my own choreography all of the time. Sure I do sometimes, and if Cathe or any other instructor wanted to use my stuff, they are more than welcome to.
And by he way, I do not use Cathe's choreography for my own profit. How rude of you to make an assumption like that. If you had any knowledge of the fitness industry, you would know that we are all paid hourly. I do not get paid because of the choreography I bring to the class. We, instructors, are a family. We share our knowledge with one another. That is how we keep things fresh and interesting for our members.
 
RE: No problem at all.

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Aug-02-01 AT 06:13PM (Est)[/font][p]Cathe is on vacation, but let me assure you and everyone that it is absolutely fine to use Cathe's choreography from her videos to teach a class. In fact, when SNM first started, the majority of our sales came from instructors who purchased our videos for the purpose of either learning new choregraphy or new methods of teaching step aerobics.

Chris
 
While I agree that instructors all borrow from others, I think what might have set off some bells is the idea that you say you taught "ALL of rythmic step" rather than borrowing some moves here and there.
A question: does copyright cover only the video, or the unique combination of moves that are put together to create the workout, as well?
 
RE: copyright

A copyright only protetcts us from illegal duplication or broadcast of our videos. You can not copyright "moves" or "combinations". If this was allowed the aerobic video business would be over tomorrow for almost everyone.
 
Just being protective...

SeasunZ,
I can understand how you might feel under attack here, but please don't think harshly of folks who jump to Cathe's defense, even though I think everyone knows Cathe can take care of herself! Her followers are VERY loyal, as I'm sure are all your students. With all the talk about Napster, music, and movie rights, those who don't teach aerobics wouldn't necessarily know that teaching choreography is very dissimilar and in a 'class' by itself. When you post on the forum, instead of sending a message via e-mail to SNM directly, not everyone will understand the between-the-lines stuff that someone in the business already knows. :)
 
RE: Just being protective...

Just wanted to comment on this in general. I am a fitness instructor and have been to many conferences. Those instructors presenting almost always advertise their video if they have one so we all can remember their choreography ideas. Cathe does not present at these conferences so many may not realize what is acceptable. Most of the top instructors our their are selling their ideas to teachers and personal trainers. This is how it's done. Cathe I am sure is not so naive to think no instructors are using her choreography ideas. And as Seasun Z said up front she told the class where the choreography was coming from. She did not misrepresent herself in any way. If anything, she is advertising Cathe to people that might otherwise never know about her. Her participants are in a gym and obviously not using videos much or at all. I also worked with an instructor who did the entire Power Max workout one time. It's quite common. Just wanted to offer people a different perspective on the professional behavior of instructors.

Best wishes, Cyndie
 
ME TOO

Hi, I am an instructor and use cathe's stuff all the time. Just like S&M said, you cannot copyright steps and combinations!!

Jennifer
 
RE: ME TOO

Just wanted to say a quick Thank You!!! to SNM, Cyndie, Kristina, and Jenniferholmes for coming to my defense. I really felt under attack by Joyce. I swear, my heart was racing when I read her reply to my post. If ever, even for a moment, I thought that what I was doing was wrong, I would never post it! That would be pretty stupid of me don't you think.?.?.?
I am a loyal fan of Cathe's and would never do anything to jepordize her business, as far as her losing money because I teach her choreography. Besides, thats rediculous. The people who take my class now know who she is and are looking forward to purchasing her videos. And thats the way it should be. This is how her name gets spread around. I hope she appreciates it. I sure would.
 
TO SEASUN Z

SeasunZ,

i Just want to add that I, too, think that your use of Cathe's brand-new choreography is the highest form of flattery, and is just fine. And if your classes enjoy your version of "Rhythmic Stop," they would feel encouraged, I'm sure, to buy the "official Cathe version" for their own occasional home use --and to come to more of your classes. So everyone wins.

I think we all have a common perception that Cathe is an extraordinarily hardworking and giving woman, and many of us, especially us old-timers who date back to Day One of the Cathe website, feel (rationally or not :)) that we have forged a unique kind of long-distance relationship with each other and with Cathe. None of us thinks of Cathe as just another video instructor. This group feels a genuine personal attachment to her. I can't speak for Joyce but I'll bet that she did not mean you any offense, only to defend Cathe.

You may not be aware of this if you're not a long-time Forums poster, but in the first couple of years of the Cathe Forums there were a couple of other fitness instructors (y'all who are old-timers will know who I'm remembering) who suddenly appeared on the Cathe Forums and began horning in, answering all the "Ask Cathe" questions and using the Forums to promote their own wares. Cathe's response was a very gracious silence, but the Forum members were pretty vocal in their disapproval after a while. I know I myself sent SNM a private e-mail saying that I thought the excessive horning in on Cathe's website -- which Cathe pays for -- was inappropriate and plain rude. I am aware of other Forum members who sent the same kind of e-mails. Not long after that SNM posted the first set of "Forum guidelines", gently and tactfully steering these intruders elsewhere. The way Cathe and SNM chose to handle this rather delicate situation was a class act all the way around. And it wasn't long before the intruders backed off.

I tell you that story only to illustrate another example of how protective this Forum is of Cathe, mostly because she's just a terrific, generous person and role model, but no doubt also because she very rarely will take a "public" position on a controversial issue on these Forums. That's not her style or that of her company. So I think that makes us on the Forums tend to act more quickly in her "defense."

Good luck with your classes and please let us know how your students enjoy other Cathe things you teach them!


Kathy S.
 
RE: TO SEASUN Z

Hi there Kathy S. Thanks for taking the time to reply in the manner that you did. I have never, nor do I have any intention of "horning in" on Cathe in her Ask Cathe forum. IS that really how you see me? I am no Cathe, just a fellow instructor who enjoys her choreography and enjoys sharing it with my class members. I was simply trying to express my gratitude to Cathe for all of her hard work and excellent choreography. Instructing is not only a very physically demanding job but a mentally demanding one too. We instructors are always pushing ourselves to have new and exciting stuff to give to our members. I truly appreaciate all instructors for what it is that they do for others. Especially Cathe. She has given so much of herself to her fans. She IS Woman, hear her roar!!!
Seasun
 
Hi Seasun! Wow, good for you. That is a lot of choreography to remember so soon after getting your tapes so I am sure you are one fine instructor :). Keep up the great work and I hope you have a fun class on Sunday too! Well, then again, if you are doing the low end lunges from Leaner Legs maybe "fun" isn't the right word to use ;-)! Take Care!
 
Hi Joyce! I truly do appreciate your concern on this topic (I sincerely mean that) but instructors using my choreography in their fitness classes is perfectly fine. Before I got heavily involved in the home exercise video business, I actually started out presenting at conferences as a Continuing Education Provider. As a CEC provider I would share all of my choreography with other instructors (at workshops and conferences) for the specific purpose of taking it home to use in their classes. Then when I started making videos, I would promote them in conjunction with these workshops as a learning tool. Even though my focus has shifted to home exercisers, many instructors still buy videos to get ideas for their classes. It is quite common and as an instructor myself, I am happy to be helpful to other instructors in this manner.

I wanted to take the time to explain this to you since you seemed unaware of this. But again, you, as well as the others who have posted to this thread, are very sweet to express your concerns. I'm sure no one meant to deliberatly hurt anyones feelings and it sounds as if you have all discussed this and for the most part worked it out already.

Well, as I said in my other post, I will be back Thurday to answer questions. Bye everyone and see ya next workout;-)!
 
RE: being an instructor

Hi,
I just felt like commenting as I have taught a lot too. To me the challenge in teaching is being my own personality and have my style. I would therefore never teach someone elses class solely. I would pick bits and pieces from here and there and mix it with my own. That's how things became my personal style that my students loved. True, it does take a long time and that is also why I don't teach anymore. I want to put an honor into my work and couldn't go with something I wasn't happy about.
But to me, the personal style of a teacher is what I'm looking for, and that is also why I love Cathe's workouts so much. Cathe you are very motivating, as you add a lot of your own personality. I think that can be lost a bit if everything is copied from someone else..... and this is not saying that it wrong, it's just never something I would do.

Dorthe
 
Wow! I had no idea that I would cause such a response!

Now Seasunz, if you took the time to read my entire post, you would have noticed that I apologized in advance if I was being naive about your teaching Cathe's Rythmic Step. So I guess I'm wondering why you feel so 'under attack'. You need to relax! I was just voicing my concerns. Cathe is THE reason I work out so consistently, and I depend on her for keeping me in shape. That's why I immediately got concerned about how she would feel about this. And I was not being rude. I reread my post and I know I expressed my opinion without attacking you.

Cathe, you know I was looking out for your best interests (and therefore all of us!) and that is the bottom line. Obviously I am not in the fitness industry and that's why I mentioned the possibility of being naive about using someone else's choreography.

But since Cathe does not have a problem with this, it's not a problem with me either! Have a great day.

Joyce
 
Hi Seasun!
I am an AFAA certified instructor although I don't currently teach, but I do attend a class 4 days a week at my work's fitness center. I have regularly loaned Cathe and CIA tapes to my favorite step instructor who has crafted routines based on them. And actually CIA videos were created for instructors to give them choreography ideas (and Cathe has done at least one CIA video, CIA1006 with Greg, I own it)....so this is quite common. I see that Cathe has already responded to you, but I just wanted to add my comments. I also think it's great that you gave Cathe the credit. Generally you find that people who attend classes are not people who buy videos and vice versa although there are definitely exceptions (and I'm one), but 95% are either one or the other. By doing Cathe's moves and crediting her, you just might prompt someone to buy her tapes!
Way to go!
Barbara P
 
Wow!!! Thanks so much Barbara P! I am beginning to realize just how much those who are not in the industry really DON'T know about it. Did that make sense? You can imagine how pleased I was when I got on this morning to see that Cathe had posted so positively. Can't believe how much response my original post has received. Never meant for this to happen. Although I am happy now that it did. Maybe it will create more of an understanding as to how this all works.
Sincerely,
Seasun

P.S. Cathe, a big Thanks to you too!
 
YIKES!!! TO SEASUN Z

Seasun Z --

I am so sorry if I misled you -- I did NOT mean to suggest that you horned in on Cathe; I was just recalling another situation where someone WAS doing that, and just illustrating that to you as an example of why I believe many of the Forum members feel and act really protective of Cathe. Let me repeat -- I DON'T think you're horning in, and I don't think there's anything wrong with you, as an instructor, learning and borrowing from Cathe. (Footnote: And I see Cathe doesn't mind it either.)

I sincerely hope that you do well, and that you'll let all of us know how your classes are enjoying everything!

Kathy S.
 
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