Strengthen shoulders without injuring the rotator cuff?

RE: Strengthen shoulders without injuring the rotator c...

Wow, thanks so much for the great replies, guys! I've been on vacation for the last week and was psyched to see even more responses to this thread when I was away :).

Going to read all of the great advice now... :)
 
RE: Strengthen shoulders without injuring the rotator c...

I've had a shoulder problem for a couple of years. The "little arm circles" that Cathe does in BodyMax2 upper body weights really seems to help me out - at least I always feel better the next day. I'm guessing there must be some therapeutic value in them.
 
RE: Strengthen shoulders without injuring the rotator c...

Just wanted to say that thanks to the awesome advice in this thread, I was able to do the shoulder workout in LIS 4DS yesterday with no issues!! I substituted rotator cuff exercises when Cathe was doing the overhead press pyramids, then did the static overhead press exercise with modified form, then substituted arm circles for the front raises later on.

Shoulders feel fine today :).

I'll have to experiment a bit on how to still get that "burn" without putting things in harm's way--I do have to confess that because I mostly used light weights yesterday (too paranoid about strain), I didn't feel the muscle being worked as much. I'll probably invest in some weighted gloves to increase the weights by .5 increments or something, so that it's not too big of an increase, but just enough to get my muscles to feel the work.

I did notice, however, that I felt strained from having done the chest workout from HIS 4DS the day before. I think that workout is why I started feeling shoulder strain during my 4DS rotations--I increased my weights on my chest exercises for the first time in what feels like forever (8 lbs to 10 lbs for flies; 10 lbs to 12 lbs for bench presses), and although my chest likes the new challenge, it appears my shoulders don't :(. I made sure to follow proper form (i.e. not letting my elbows go lower than step bench height for bench presses and flies), but I still felt some tightness that went beyond simple discomfort. I'll have to ease back on my weights next week for chest and see if that makes a difference.

So frustrating because I've been trying to up my weights for so long--and finally succeeded because I gained strength!!--but now I may have to pull back because my shoulders just aren't ready yet :(.

I've got an appointment with my acupuncturist today--I'll have him work on my shoulders so they feel better and then experiment with pulling back next week...

Thanks again, everyone!!

Jennifer
 
RE: Strengthen shoulders without injuring the rotator c...

>I did notice, however, that I felt strained from having done
>the chest workout from HIS 4DS the day before. I think
>that workout is why I started feeling shoulder strain
>during my 4DS rotations--I increased my weights on my chest
>exercises for the first time in what feels like forever (8 lbs
>to 10 lbs for flies; 10 lbs to 12 lbs for bench presses), and
>although my chest likes the new challenge, it appears my
>shoulders don't :(. I made sure to follow proper form (i.e.
>not letting my elbows go lower than step bench height for
>bench presses and flies), but I still felt some tightness that
>went beyond simple discomfort. I'll have to ease back on my
>weights next week for chest and see if that makes a
>difference.

Hi, Jennifer!

I think that some of us (myself included) need more recovery time between workouts that involve the shoulders. When I do GS, for example, I do the first upper body workout on "day 1," the lower body on "day 3", and wait until "day 5" to do the second upper body. That leaves 2-3 days off of upper body between workouts. In your example, I would personally not do 4DS chest/back one day and shoulders the next. That's not enough recovery time for my shoulders. Instead, I'd do chest/back, then legs, then shoulders, then take a day off before doing biceps/triceps (shoulders help in tricep work). Especially after moving up in weights, you would probably have benefitted from more recovery time after the chest work before doing shoulder work.

HTH!
 
RE: Strengthen shoulders without injuring the rotator c...

Thanks, Kathryn!! Good advice indeed--I'll try that next week :).

Luckily, my acupuncturist is top notch and was able to treat my nagging shoulder strain in no time today, but he did warn me to lay off the weights for a week to help the healing. That's what I get for trying to push myself too far ;).

I just wish I could be as strong as you ladies! I'll get there one day, I hope!

Jennifer
 
RE: Strengthen shoulders without injuring the rotator c...

Hi Jennifer and everyone. Boy...did I need this thread! I too, am a 20+ year exerciser; and now 42 yrs. old. My shoulders are officially shot. I have good form, tried ortho, pts, cortisone. Nothing helps and I won't have surgery. It isn't torn they think, just very senstivie and sore at most times. It wakes me up blah, blah, blah. When I hit 40, all those adages were true! Before that I was fine. I certainly think some people are predisposed to it; and some will never have a problem. I was a volley ball player in college and my whole life as well...not a great sport for a shoulder issue. And now with my love for working out and lifting (my shoulder needs modifications in cardio too...) it is just worn. Arthritis is next....

Oh well! I won't say die! I am self treating, exercises, modifications, no STS (boo hoo! there is NO way I can kick it like that anymore...I have P90X and never could start it because I had my shoulder issue and I can tell that there would be heavy modifications needed to get through.)but I am stretching more, starting yoga (my compact muscular frame can probably use that...not braggging, I am just a meso...)and biking as well as my girl Cathe.

so I feel for you Jennifer! It affects my workouts, my work life because I do a lot of office and computer and phone work and that hurts my shoulders too. And although fit and healthy, not young anymore. The years of fitness are taking thier toll! I love the post that stated that we didn't know this stuff in the 80s! that is SO true...so really young people; you MUST take care of your joints!

(I don't know how out Cathe does it, you know she trains herself and her clients and all of us. I am her age I think but my body is yelling for some calm!!!) Good luck.

Oh, and I just suffered a Plantar injury in my foot...what next! :)
 
RE: Strengthen shoulders without injuring the rotator c...

Thanks, Becky! I'm starting to wonder, too, if I may need to cancel my STS pre-order. I look at the photos and get scared at all the overhead presses. I know I can modify, but if I end up modifying every shoulder workout, then really, what is the point of using that workout, you know? Ugh.

I so want to use STS, but I'm terrified of doing long-term damage to my body. I don't want to be in my 40's, 50's, 60's and wishing I had heeded the warning signs.

There's still time to cancel, right? I may have to pluck up the courage to do that *sigh*.

Jennifer
 
RE: Strengthen shoulders without injuring the rotator c...

I ordered twice and just cancelled for the second time....modify...I know...but....I see those heavy weights, and no way can I orthopedically do that....as of the past year! Just turned 47,...and step hurts the inner knee now, and the overhead presses just cannot go heavy...ok, really, shouldn't do them at all...and STS, fabulous that it seems, just has the potential to wear down what's left of my joints...double sigh....
 
RE: Strengthen shoulders without injuring the rotator c...

Hi rnyogamom,

How did you cancel? I've never had to cancel a Cathe order before, so I wasn't sure how to do it... Thanks!
 
RE: Strengthen shoulders without injuring the rotator c...

Just a FYI for those with shoulder problems:

I've found that I can do Kettlebell standing presses with no shoulder problems--in fact, they feel really good on the shoulders, and I can use a heavier weight than I do with dumbells (20# vs. 15# usually with DBs). I've seen posts by other folks who had the same experience.
 
RE: Strengthen shoulders without injuring the rotator c...

To cancel, I went into the customer service link on the home page, and that gal, Nancy took care of it immediately....she's very responsive and competant (is Beachbody listening? :) )I figured, well, just get it and go lighter, but that's a LOT Of money to NOT do the program the way its designed! So, I'll sub in her other workouts, Jari, and maybe try Jillian's new one.......
 
RE: Strengthen shoulders without injuring the rotator c...

Ooh, thanks for the tip, Kathryn! I got a kettlebell workout, but have only done it once. I'm going to be doing a rotation of total body workouts for a while, with an emphasis on functional workouts--I need a change, and I'm hoping that the rotator cuff work on some of these workouts (I know Cathe has one in Supersets) will help me :).

I'll have to pull out the kettlebell workout!
 
RE: Strengthen shoulders without injuring the rotator c...

I hate to keep this going in the Ask Cathe forum. But, I too have a shoulder problem. I have been seeing a Doctor of Osteopathic manipulation for 8 WEEKS now!!!! He told me to stop exercising 3 weeks ago to see if that was prolonging my healing...I am still not 100% but I am really close and I told him when I am stressed I feel the muscle tightening in my top left shoulder. He said to start exercising again but take it easy.

My question is...what should I start with? Circuits, Low impact cardio, light weights, total body weights,pilates?????? I was doing 4DS....not lifting as much as Cathe of course. I DREAD putting on a short sleeve shirt my upper body is MUSH.

Thanks in advance for any advice.
 
RE: Strengthen shoulders without injuring the rotator c...

I am doing 4ds too - but only the bi's and tris, the lower body, and ONLY the exercises that don't isolate the anterior delt or anything where I feel it....

I let up off lifting too, and the pain dissipated....lifted light...bANGO - pain back again....

Finally gave in to cortisone and phew! Relief...but not doing shoulder stuff....sticking to bi's tri's lats etc...and those codman exercises too will keep you from getting mushy...
 
RE: Strengthen shoulders without injuring the rotator c...

Quick update today... I did Supersets and did a set of overhead presses with a lighter weight than I normally use, just to test things out and see if I would get sore. I didn't!!! Yay!!

I figured out what's been giving me the strain: it is when I do a chest workout the prior day and really push it with the weights. Kathryn hit the nail on the head in a post above--I'm probably not giving myself enough of a chance to recover, and so the overhead presses are aggravating an already sore shoulder joint.

I'm hoping to go back to 4DS next week (I just can't seem to get away from it for more than a week at a time before I starting missing it like crazy :)), and this time, I'll back off on the weights for chest (particularly the flies), AND per Kathryn's advice, put in an extra day of recovery between the back/chest workout and the shoulder workout.

Wish me luck!! I'm hoping I don't feel any strain :).

I ended up canceling my order cancel for STS LOL. I figure the worst case scenario is that I modify everything for shoulders, but I'll get value from it from all the other body parts that are worked, so it'll be worth it to keep it.

Besides, it's so incredibly inspiring looking at all those strong, fit bodies--that's motivation enough :).

Jennifer
 
RE: Strengthen shoulders without injuring the rotator c...

Hi Jennifer!

Just wanted to pop in and tell you of some stretches for the shoulder that my Physical therapist has me doing for an impingement in my shoulder. I will have to do these stretches probably for the rest of my life to keep the flexibility in the rotator ligaments. I haven't been as faithful as I'm supposed to be, but I do have better range of motion.

Some of the things he also told me was to never go beyond 90 degrees in any of my arm motions. Even on lateral raises, don't go all the way parallel to the floor because it is the ball of the joint that "pinches" the tendons/muscles as you bring your arm up. Also in your arm movements, if out to the side, make sure thumb is down pointed to the floor; arm movements in front of you, thumbs up; So even when I do cardio, I modify the arms so that my thumbs are in the correct position. All overhead movements is at a 45 degree angle.

Here's the stretches (I'm supposed to do them three times a day, lol, I always forget!!)

Shoulder rolls, simply stand up straight, arms at your side, roll your shoulders backwards 9 times, on the tenth time, hold them back for a count of 10; while holding push your sternum out a bit, gently. When I first started this I felt a great stretch in the pecs!

Rhomboid stretch: take right hand and place on left shoulder. Hold the right elbow with your left hand, relax the arm so you are holding it up, then push the right shoulder blade back. Hold for a count of 10. Do other side.

I saw somebody mention "codmans" PTherapist said this is the most important exercises for the shoulder joint as it stretches the tendons/muscles back out to their proper alignment. I don't remember seeing a description though....here it is

Get a one lb or two lb weight. Hold in hand by one end. Bend over against a wall or a table, I use a table, more comfortable. The arm with the weight needs to completely relax and hang. Then with your legs, move them in a circle to the right five times, let the momentum of the legs make your arm with the weight move (this takes practice to not move your arm yourself) in a circular type motion. Stop the legs and let the arm stop by itself. Then go the opposite direction with the leg movement. I think I do four or five sets for each direction.


Also, upon any soreness, ice the shoulder right at the edge of the shoulder and the arm (I guess it is where the cold can best get to the tendons underneath the bone) and take ibuprophen for the swelling. PT explained that the hardest thing to do is to get a tendon to heal because they do not get much blood flow; that is why they are white. So we have to ice and get the flexibility back so they will hopefully will not tear. If we keep working them when they are sore, they eventually will wear out and then tear. (I think that was his biggest warning to me to make sure I keep doing my stuff)

Sorry to be so long, but I've been in pain in the shoulder for two years and it is not fun. I still can't golf because of it. I'm still getting STS myself, I will never probably do the real heavy heavy lifting for the shoulders without major modification.

Hope I didn't overwhelm you or anything. If you want anymore, there are a few more exercises he has me do to strengthen the smaller muscles that are out of balance...some rotation stuff and some other types of exercises to do instead of flies.

Have a great day and workout.
 
RE: Strengthen shoulders without injuring the rotator c...

Thanks for the info. One question, though,... I thought lateral raises with the thumb down were contraindicated... or is it that that pouring water motion isn't turned down enough?
 
RE: Strengthen shoulders without injuring the rotator c...

Don't ever turn your thumb down during lateral raises! If you look at the anatomy of the shoulder you have a little lip called the Acromion process with a bursa sack underneath. If you angle your thumbs down you'll be rubbing agianst that bone causing inflammation and wearing down that sac. If anything turn your thumbs up and out. hope this helps!
 
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