Speaking of slobs......another work rant
- Thread starter LauraMax
- Start date
queenmaynie
Cathlete
Oh Laura, I feel so bad for you. There is nothing worse than having that feeling of problems at your job. It just becomes forefront in your mind and makes it hard to get anything done. What a shame. Sounds like this woman is just ungrateful and almost seems to be passive-aggressive in nature. She has taken you for granted, that's for sure. She mistook your kindness all this time and has taken advantage of it. I've had it happen so many times in the past. It seems that she was bound to cause a problem sooner or later!! Anyway, just hang in there. I am pretty sure that there are so many others in your office who appreciate all you do for them and who respect your authority. Just focus as much as you can on what you need to do. I'm sure the grievance won't get far once they compare your work record with hers. Obviously you have the better one!!
Hey, BTW, how's that bathroom doing?? Still pee on the toilet, or what?? LOL!
sending a big {{{HUG}}}
Hey, BTW, how's that bathroom doing?? Still pee on the toilet, or what?? LOL!
sending a big {{{HUG}}}
Laura,
I feel so bad for you! I haven't read through all the replies. I don't really have any advice except one that I think you already learned. In the future ask yourself if you are caring more than the person. I know it's so hard to not feel compassion for someone and try to help them. But, I've found I get frustrated and into trouble when I care more for the person's problems/future/etc... than the actual person. Usually it's because they are not ready to listen or change. They choose to not look at what they can do and instead complain and defend their poor choices. It's tough. But, sometimes you've just gotta let the person fail and let the chips fall where they may. They may not learn from their failures and continue to blame others, or they just might learn from their failures one day.
HUGS!!!!!
Wendy
I feel so bad for you! I haven't read through all the replies. I don't really have any advice except one that I think you already learned. In the future ask yourself if you are caring more than the person. I know it's so hard to not feel compassion for someone and try to help them. But, I've found I get frustrated and into trouble when I care more for the person's problems/future/etc... than the actual person. Usually it's because they are not ready to listen or change. They choose to not look at what they can do and instead complain and defend their poor choices. It's tough. But, sometimes you've just gotta let the person fail and let the chips fall where they may. They may not learn from their failures and continue to blame others, or they just might learn from their failures one day.
HUGS!!!!!
Wendy
LauraMax
Cathlete
Thank you Wendy, & everyone else who's offered support. You're all so great! Jane, I admire you for the way you resolved your situation & I'm glad it worked out for the best.
I think I'm just beginning what's sure to be a long & torturous journey. I think the grievance will last for about 60-90 days, after which I might contact an attny to find out my options. Latest scuttlebutt is she's whined about this to everyone in the building, & somehow convinced another woman (with whom I have little to do & have barely spoken to in at least a year) to file a similar grievance. In a way this could be good for me b/c she's harming her case w/specious accusations. Either way it's not gonna be fun.
Wish me luck, & thanks again!
I think I'm just beginning what's sure to be a long & torturous journey. I think the grievance will last for about 60-90 days, after which I might contact an attny to find out my options. Latest scuttlebutt is she's whined about this to everyone in the building, & somehow convinced another woman (with whom I have little to do & have barely spoken to in at least a year) to file a similar grievance. In a way this could be good for me b/c she's harming her case w/specious accusations. Either way it's not gonna be fun.
Wish me luck, & thanks again!
nkhansen1
Cathlete
Laura,
This may have been answered before, but is it possible for you to transfer her out of your group?
My husband works for the largest oil/energy company in the world as a financial reporting manager. One of the things I hear him comment on constantly is how inappropriately unconservative some of his female employees dress (skirts too short, necklines too low, not wearing bras) despite his repeated reprimands- and my husband is hard as nails at work! He documents and recommends drops in their ranking within the company, and if that doesn't work, he transfers them out. Buh-bye!
I'm sorry for you and the stress this causes you. Good luck- and you're absolutely in the right on this.
This may have been answered before, but is it possible for you to transfer her out of your group?
My husband works for the largest oil/energy company in the world as a financial reporting manager. One of the things I hear him comment on constantly is how inappropriately unconservative some of his female employees dress (skirts too short, necklines too low, not wearing bras) despite his repeated reprimands- and my husband is hard as nails at work! He documents and recommends drops in their ranking within the company, and if that doesn't work, he transfers them out. Buh-bye!
I'm sorry for you and the stress this causes you. Good luck- and you're absolutely in the right on this.
Govtgirl
Cathlete
>I do have documentation of her inappropriate attire, including
>dates & times. Also documentation of her coming in half hour
>late, taking an extra half hour at lunch, leaving early
>without permission.
Well, you've "got her" then!
I'm in gov't also (hello, my first post here!!) so I know what you're going through. But if you have documentation of when she REPORTED that she came into work, versus when she really DID come into work, she's toast. All the other stuff is a grey area, time card fraud will get her booted pronto, and she has no recourse. It'a a black & white issue then, exactly what supervisors love. No grounds for her to sue! Good luck!!slammed.
>dates & times. Also documentation of her coming in half hour
>late, taking an extra half hour at lunch, leaving early
>without permission.
Well, you've "got her" then!
I'm in gov't also (hello, my first post here!!) so I know what you're going through. But if you have documentation of when she REPORTED that she came into work, versus when she really DID come into work, she's toast. All the other stuff is a grey area, time card fraud will get her booted pronto, and she has no recourse. It'a a black & white issue then, exactly what supervisors love. No grounds for her to sue! Good luck!!slammed.>She's gotten away with this dress code violation because
>you've allowed it, to be quite blunt. No wonder she ignores
>you - your directives carry no weight in her mind. She
>doesn't complete her work, again, because she knows you'll let
>it go. Don't let her get away with stuff, and there will be
>no need for the work rants. From what I can tell, these
>problem people are being enabled by management to get away
>with this amazing behavior. I don't know what to suggest
>other than to develop some backbone and really act like a
>supervisor.
I totally agree with these comments. I think the first time she showed up dressed inapproprately she should have been warned, the second time she should have been sent home to change...off the clock. I'm afraid if you try enforcing the dress code now it will look like you are just trying to get back at her for filing a complaint against you.
One thing you must remember when in a managment/supervisor position is to NOT get personally involved with the staff. I don't mean be cold or cruel, but keep it kind and professional. I'm sorry you are going through this, but look at it as a lesson learned.
Good luck Laura.
>you've allowed it, to be quite blunt. No wonder she ignores
>you - your directives carry no weight in her mind. She
>doesn't complete her work, again, because she knows you'll let
>it go. Don't let her get away with stuff, and there will be
>no need for the work rants. From what I can tell, these
>problem people are being enabled by management to get away
>with this amazing behavior. I don't know what to suggest
>other than to develop some backbone and really act like a
>supervisor.
I totally agree with these comments. I think the first time she showed up dressed inapproprately she should have been warned, the second time she should have been sent home to change...off the clock. I'm afraid if you try enforcing the dress code now it will look like you are just trying to get back at her for filing a complaint against you.
One thing you must remember when in a managment/supervisor position is to NOT get personally involved with the staff. I don't mean be cold or cruel, but keep it kind and professional. I'm sorry you are going through this, but look at it as a lesson learned.
Good luck Laura.
dogs2birds
Cathlete
Laura,
Just wanted to offer you my support. I work at a college and it's VERY MUCH like a gov't. situation (we're on the state retirement system) where you can't get rid of people very easily. I went through a terrible situation with an employee that came to a head last year at this time. It went on for 3 years. I also had the support of my boss. I suck as a supervisor because I'm too nice (if I do say so). But I'm getting tougher b/c I got tired of getting walked on. I feel for you and I wish you all the best. You seem pretty tough, so I know you'll pull through this one.
Suz
"Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened." - Anatole France
http://www.picturetrail.com/dogs2birds
Just wanted to offer you my support. I work at a college and it's VERY MUCH like a gov't. situation (we're on the state retirement system) where you can't get rid of people very easily. I went through a terrible situation with an employee that came to a head last year at this time. It went on for 3 years. I also had the support of my boss. I suck as a supervisor because I'm too nice (if I do say so
). But I'm getting tougher b/c I got tired of getting walked on. I feel for you and I wish you all the best. You seem pretty tough, so I know you'll pull through this one.Suz
"Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened." - Anatole France
http://www.picturetrail.com/dogs2birds
Govtgirl
Cathlete
I know I'm new here, but I strongly vote *against* transferring her out of your group. Then you're just giving some unsuspecting soul the same problems you have with her. I say, go after her for timecard fraud. If she's been coming in late and leaving early, but still getting paid for a full day's work, then she's commiting fraud, pure and simple, and ripping off the taxpapers. That will get her booted in a heartbeart.
LauraMax
Cathlete
Govtgirl, I think you're right. We have determined that she will only be satisfied if 1) she gets a transfer (she's been trying to get a job as the police chief's secretary) or 2) she gets terminated & can therefore collect unemployment. She's been searching for a way to get what she wants & she thinks she's found it.
I'm not gonna reward an employee for bad behavior. I might seek a month's suspension without pay ;-), but I won't let her get what she wants by behaving like a spoiled child. What kind of message would that send to the rest of the staff?
I'm not gonna reward an employee for bad behavior. I might seek a month's suspension without pay ;-), but I won't let her get what she wants by behaving like a spoiled child. What kind of message would that send to the rest of the staff?
nancy324
Cathlete
Laura, she won't collect unemployment if she is fired for cause. I think Robin is right about creating a file. Give her several warnings, specifying exactly what she needs to improve and give her specific deadlines for making the improvements. Then, when she doesn't change her behavior, fire her. My Mom was an appeals tribunal judge for New Jersey unemployment. She will NOT collect unemployment. There are too many hard-working people out there who could use her job. Give it to someone who deserves it.
LauraMax
Cathlete
Nancy, are you sure? Would you mind checking for me? I thought it was the opposite--if you got fired you automatically qualify for unemployment, but if you quit you can still apply however your chances are diminished since it was your choice, & the employer can fight it. Maybe I have it backwards?
Yeah, I reopened the old file from last spring. I had 5 entries in 5 days--I can see why I gave up! LOL! Now I have another 5 (much longer) entries for the past 5 days! How crazy is this?
Yeah, I reopened the old file from last spring. I had 5 entries in 5 days--I can see why I gave up! LOL! Now I have another 5 (much longer) entries for the past 5 days! How crazy is this?
<<Nancy, are you sure? Would you mind checking for me? I thought it was the opposite--if you got fired you automatically qualify for unemployment, but if you quit you can still apply however your chances are diminished since it was your choice, & the employer can fight it. Maybe I have it backwards?>>
It was always my understanding that if you quit or were fired for cause, you could not collect unemployment.
If you were laid-off due to downsizing, company closure, etc, then unemployment could be collected.
It was always my understanding that if you quit or were fired for cause, you could not collect unemployment.
If you were laid-off due to downsizing, company closure, etc, then unemployment could be collected.
LauraMax
Cathlete
Hmmmm I'm still not sure. I have an acquaintance who was fired, & believe me there was cause, but she got unemployment. I'm gonna sidetrack her b/c it's a crazy story. My acquaintance put Visine in a co-worker's bottle of water. As a joke, but the co-worker got sick & filed charges against her, then sued her. She was prosecuted in court & fined $1500 plus court costs. She then lost the lawsuit, after which she was terminated. She got her first unemployment check two weeks later.
NJ is an odd state. As I mentioned, it's very employee-friendly & typically rules in an employee's favor. When I lived in VA the rules were totally different--you had to really fight for unemployment. Here it's almost an entitlement. Nancy seems to have a good source for me, hopefully she can give me a little more info.
NJ is an odd state. As I mentioned, it's very employee-friendly & typically rules in an employee's favor. When I lived in VA the rules were totally different--you had to really fight for unemployment. Here it's almost an entitlement. Nancy seems to have a good source for me, hopefully she can give me a little more info.
>Hmmmm I'm still not sure. I have an acquaintance who was
>fired, & believe me there was cause, but she got unemployment.
> I'm gonna sidetrack her b/c it's a crazy story. My
>acquaintance put Visine in a co-worker's bottle of water. As
>a joke, but the co-worker got sick & filed charges against
>her, then sued her.
Not to hijack your thread, but that was a storyline in an episode of CSI. A waitress for a high stakes poker room at a casino puts Visine in a stingy tipper's club soda, with the intent of giving him diarrhea. He had a heart attack (or something like it) instead.
>fired, & believe me there was cause, but she got unemployment.
> I'm gonna sidetrack her b/c it's a crazy story. My
>acquaintance put Visine in a co-worker's bottle of water. As
>a joke, but the co-worker got sick & filed charges against
>her, then sued her.
Not to hijack your thread, but that was a storyline in an episode of CSI. A waitress for a high stakes poker room at a casino puts Visine in a stingy tipper's club soda, with the intent of giving him diarrhea. He had a heart attack (or something like it) instead.
LauraMax
Cathlete
That's OK Gayle, I think I hijacked my own thread. ;-)
Maybe that's where they got the idea! (it was my acquaintance & one of her co-workers that snuck the Visine in) If I remember correctly--this was about 4 years ago--they did want to give her diarrhea but as it turned out she had some kind of medical condition, I think it was diabetes but not sure, & it ended up causing some kind of vision problems. Really crazy stuff.
Maybe that's where they got the idea! (it was my acquaintance & one of her co-workers that snuck the Visine in) If I remember correctly--this was about 4 years ago--they did want to give her diarrhea but as it turned out she had some kind of medical condition, I think it was diabetes but not sure, & it ended up causing some kind of vision problems. Really crazy stuff.
Amy Steppe
Cathlete
My goodness, this woman is acting like a 12 year old!
Having been a department head in my working days, I had problem employees. I gave a problem employee two strikes and they were out. I was considered a tough but fair supervisor.
Don't bend. You have already been drained dry by this emotional vampire. I daresay in the end she will get nothing but booted out the door. I know you must be hurt by this woman's nasty behavior, but you have already tolerated way more than I would have tolerated.
Having been a department head in my working days, I had problem employees. I gave a problem employee two strikes and they were out. I was considered a tough but fair supervisor.
Don't bend. You have already been drained dry by this emotional vampire. I daresay in the end she will get nothing but booted out the door. I know you must be hurt by this woman's nasty behavior, but you have already tolerated way more than I would have tolerated.
Amy Steppe
Cathlete
LaraMax has a very valid point.
It is more difficult for a civil servant to fire a problem employee than a person in private industries.
I worked for the State of Tennessee for over 15 years and many problem employees were either transferred or permitted to act like petulant children.
LaraMax, as another poster pointed out, document, document, documemt. '
One of my secretaries called in sick every single Monday. I finally had to confront her and I did so by focusing on the problem, but not the person.
I once read a book called "Getting to Yes" -- it is one of the best books on management I've ever read. In fact, the book is great for both work and domestic related problems.
I wish you luck in because it is a problem especially for anyone employed in government service. I would hang tough. I have seen more than one frivilous grievance filed.
But these employees ended up losing the battle, but no the war in the long run.
I am so glad to no longer have to work except for myself after reading your post.
It is more difficult for a civil servant to fire a problem employee than a person in private industries.
I worked for the State of Tennessee for over 15 years and many problem employees were either transferred or permitted to act like petulant children.
LaraMax, as another poster pointed out, document, document, documemt. '
One of my secretaries called in sick every single Monday. I finally had to confront her and I did so by focusing on the problem, but not the person.
I once read a book called "Getting to Yes" -- it is one of the best books on management I've ever read. In fact, the book is great for both work and domestic related problems.
I wish you luck in because it is a problem especially for anyone employed in government service. I would hang tough. I have seen more than one frivilous grievance filed.
But these employees ended up losing the battle, but no the war in the long run.
I am so glad to no longer have to work except for myself after reading your post.
Amy Steppe
Cathlete
I always have despised "Casual Fridays". I had employees come in to work in sweats! Office appropritate means just that. The office is not a place for provocative dress.
There are all kinds of places to find inexpensive but appropriate office wear. Target's Issac Mizrahi does an excellent stylish, but office appropriate line of clothing.
There are also consignment shops and similar shops that I frequent.
I had found gorgeous clothing at thrift and consignment shops.
Occasionally, I still have to dress in a suit.
I agree that TJMax is a great source of office appropriate fashions in a variety of sizes.
There are all kinds of places to find inexpensive but appropriate office wear. Target's Issac Mizrahi does an excellent stylish, but office appropriate line of clothing.
There are also consignment shops and similar shops that I frequent.
I had found gorgeous clothing at thrift and consignment shops.
Occasionally, I still have to dress in a suit.
I agree that TJMax is a great source of office appropriate fashions in a variety of sizes.