Speaking of PC, can somebody help me understand Kwanza?

I'll try to put it another way. People like to be known, recognized and respected for who they are. To use a very simple example, if my birthday is in March, and you say "Happy Birthday" to me in September, I may not be offended, but you are demonstrating to me that you have no idea when my birthday is. If the person is close to you, (i.e. your mother :p), you might even be hurt. As NY25 said, I guess I think it's just polite to acknowledge another human being for who they are.

And Michele, when you say "I celebrate Christmas so I send Christmas cards", it makes no sense to me. According to that logic, you should send everyone a birthday card on your birthday.

Nancy
 
RE: Speaking of PC, can somebody help me understand Kw...

The way I generally do things is this:

If I know the person is Jewish, I send a Hannukah card.

If I have absolutely no idea and couldn't even begin to guess what and/or if they celebrate, I send a "holiday" card--this is usally people I don't know very well.

If the person celebrates Christmas, I send a Christmas card. I wouldn't feel bad about sending a religious Christmas card(although I usually don't--it's just not MY thing) to someone who doesn't celebrate Christmas from the religious point of view because, quite frankly, that seems ridiculous. If you celebrate the holiday I can't understand why a religious card would OFFEND anyone--that is what the holiday is supposed to be about. I think on another thread someone said that people shouldn't always think things are about them and take things so personally and I think this is an example of that. The card is expressing the senders feelings about the holiday and their remembrance of the sendee at said holiday. I wouldn't take the sentiments of a card so personally. I would just think it was nice to be remembered--JMO.:)
 
Nance, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree.

I think you're comparing apples to oranges here. Again, Christmas is a Christian celebration--Jesus's birthday--not my birthday, not your birthday. I just don't understand why on earth anyone would mind receiving a Christmas card or a Hanukkah card. I'm sending cards because it IS Christmas, not because it is some generic "season". When I send a Christmas card, it is my way of saying that, during this time as I reflect on my faith--my foundation, I include you as one of my blessings. My affection and caring stems from my faith, the reason for which I celebrate Christmas.

This is too hard. I don't know how to explain it. I'd be ever so grateful if another Christian would care to add their .02. Where is Beloved Heather when I need her--lol!:p :7
 
>I'll try to put it another way. People like to be known,
>recognized and respected for who they are. To use a very
>simple example, if my birthday is in March, and you say "Happy
>Birthday" to me in September, I may not be offended, but you
>are demonstrating to me that you have no idea when my birthday
>is. If the person is close to you, (i.e. your mother :p), you
>might even be hurt. As NY25 said, I guess I think it's just
>polite to acknowledge another human being for who they are.
>
>And Michele, when you say "I celebrate Christmas so I send
>Christmas cards", it makes no sense to me. According to that
>logic, you should send everyone a birthday card on your
>birthday.
>
>Nancy

Nancy, I completely agree with you. But reading through this post I think the problem may be in what people hope to express when they send out holiday cards of any sort.

To me, I try to tailor the card (or the gift) to the person I am giving to - Hannukah cards to Jewish friends, Christmas cards to Christians, Happy Holidays to agnostics-like-me or not-sure, whatever. To others, it appears they are announcing to the world the joy they feel in their Christianity.

I was taught as a child, and I still believe, that the kind, loving thing to do in life is to try to choose gifts and cards that suit the other person, that other people would like. Therefore, I do not give candy to my dieting friends, and I do not give diet books to my go-for-the-gusto-and-who-cares-about-the-calories friends. To me that would be rude. And to me, to send a card saying, basically, "Let's celebrate the birth of Jesus!!!" to friends who are not Christian, would be equally rude.

For example, what if I told my husband I REALLY REALLY wanted some Cathe dvds for Christmas. And what if he gave me a bunch of John Wayne movies, because to him John Wayne movies are the ultimate in entertainment. And then, when I expressed my disappointment, what if he said "But honey I LOVE JOHN WAYNE movies!!! What's your problem??????. Why are you attacking my JOHN WAYNE MOVIES?!!?!??" Wouldn't be a very loving gesture.

BTW, I would have no problem whatsoever celebrating Irish Cultural Holiday Day (would that involve green beer like St. Paddy's day?), Armenian Cultural Holiday Day, or whatever. Those who don't want to celebrate those days could abstain, but I just feel like some right-wing Christians (not directed at anyone on this forum) want to make a bunch of rules so that only Christianity, and only Christian holidays, are legitimate, and to me that is not what America is about at all.
 
. I just feel like some right-wing Christians (not directed
>at anyone on this forum) want to make a bunch of rules so that
>only Christianity, and only Christian holidays, are
>legitimate, and to me that is not what America is about at
>all.
>

Diane, you made excellent points and analogies. What rules are Christians trying to make to silence other's holidays, though? Curious...

Sparrow

My garden is filled with papayas and mangos
My life is a mixture of reggaes and tangos
Taste for the good life, I can live it no other way
- Jimmy Buffett
 
>
>BTW, I would have no problem whatsoever celebrating Irish
>Cultural Holiday Day (would that involve green beer like St.
>Paddy's day?), Armenian Cultural Holiday Day, or whatever.
>Those who don't want to celebrate those days could abstain,
>but I just feel like some right-wing Christians (not directed
>at anyone on this forum) want to make a bunch of rules so that
>only Christianity, and only Christian holidays, are
>legitimate, and to me that is not what America is about at
>all.
>


Again, I just have to agree to disagree with you and Nancy and anyone who takes this stand. It's just odd to me that anyone would be upset over receiving a Christmas card. I never said that I was upset to receive secular cards, even though I am Christian. My only point is that Christmas IS a Christian holiday. It just is.

As for the last paragraph of your post--I guess I need an example. I don't know that I'd call myself "right wing", but I'm proud to call myself a conservative and I sure don't begrudge any other religious or cultural group their holidays. I guess I don't understand why seculars want to lay claim to Christian holidays and remove all references to Christian roots. From where I sit, this whole thing appears to be about non religious people not wanting to receive religious greeting cards during religious holidays, not the other way around.

It was some president, I don't remember which one, that declared Christmas a national holiday. I rather regret that, even though at the time our predominantly Christian nation could not have foreseen all this strife.
 
>. I just feel like some right-wing Christians (not directed
>>at anyone on this forum) want to make a bunch of rules so
>that
>>only Christianity, and only Christian holidays, are
>>legitimate, and to me that is not what America is about at
>>all.
>>
>
>Diane, you made excellent points and analogies. What rules
>are Christians trying to make to silence other's holidays,
>though? Curious...
>
>

Well, the whole point of this thread was the poster objecting that her daughter was being taught about Kwanzaa in school.

Also this year there was a big campaign by I think Bill O'Reilly to boycott all the big stores that have been saying Happy Holidays for the past few years, and now all the clerks have changed back to saying Merry Christmas to their customers because of the pressure brought by right-wing Christian groups. That seems absurd and manipulative to me, it seems to be saying that Christmas is the only holiday these stores are allowed to mention without creating a huge uproar.
 
>>. I just feel like some right-wing Christians (not directed
>>>at anyone on this forum) want to make a bunch of rules so
>>that
>>>only Christianity, and only Christian holidays, are
>>>legitimate, and to me that is not what America is about at
>>>all.
>>>
>>
>>Diane, you made excellent points and analogies. What rules
>>are Christians trying to make to silence other's holidays,
>>though? Curious...
>>
>>
>
>Well, the whole point of this thread was the poster objecting
>that her daughter was being taught about Kwanzaa in school.

Ah! I thought you were talking about legislation or something! Thanks for clarifying :)

Sparrow

ETA: deleting 'cause Diane added to her response and cleared it up for me even more. :D

Sparrow

My garden is filled with papayas and mangos
My life is a mixture of reggaes and tangos
Taste for the good life, I can live it no other way
- Jimmy Buffett
 
RE: Speaking of PC, can somebody help me understand Kw...

>
>But Kwanza as I understand it, is a cultural celebration,
>which I think is wonderful. But don't those who celebrate
>Kwanza also celebrate Christmas - and forgive my ignorance if
>I am mistaken? >

Just to clarify...not everyone that celebrates Kwanzaa celebrates Christmas. There are some who only celebrate Kwanzaa.
 
>Well, the whole point of this thread was the poster objecting
>that her daughter was being taught about Kwanzaa in school.


I think you may be mistaken about this. I believe her goal was to gather information about Kwanzaa in an effort to answer her own questions about it. I didn't get the sense that she was upset.
 
RE: Speaking of PC, can somebody help me understand Kw...

Michele, I had no idea that a president decided to make this a national holiday! That's really interesting! I wonder if it was the same one who added "one nation under God" to the pledge of allegiance under pressure from Catholic groups? I think that occurred in the 50s when America was all freaked out about godless communists, so maybe Eisenhower? Maybe whoever it was got a little kickback from the toy manufacturers LOL...
 
RE: Speaking of PC, can somebody help me understand Kw...

>Michele, I had no idea that a president decided to make this
>a national holiday! That's really interesting! I wonder if
>it was the same one who added "one nation under God" to the
>pledge of allegiance under pressure from Catholic groups? I
>think that occurred in the 50s when America was all freaked
>out about godless communists, so maybe Eisenhower? Maybe
>whoever it was got a little kickback from the toy
>manufacturers LOL...
>

Diane, I was wrong. It was Congress who declared Christmas a federal holiday in 1870.
 
>>. I just feel like some right-wing Christians (not directed
>>>at anyone on this forum) want to make a bunch of rules so
>>that
>>>only Christianity, and only Christian holidays, are
>>>legitimate, and to me that is not what America is about at
>>>all.
>>>
>>
>>Diane, you made excellent points and analogies. What rules
>>are Christians trying to make to silence other's holidays,
>>though? Curious...
>>
>>
>
>Well, the whole point of this thread was the poster objecting
>that her daughter was being taught about Kwanzaa in school.
>
>Also this year there was a big campaign by I think Bill
>O'Reilly to boycott all the big stores that have been saying
>Happy Holidays for the past few years, and now all the clerks
>have changed back to saying Merry Christmas to their customers
>because of the pressure brought by right-wing Christian
>groups. That seems absurd and manipulative to me, it seems to
>be saying that Christmas is the only holiday these stores are
>allowed to mention without creating a huge uproar.

The push behind O'Reilly's and other's campaigns was because stores were mentioning every holiday except Xmas (I posted about this upthread, BTW) This year both Target, Wal-Mart and other retailers announced that they regreted their previous decision to exclude the word "Christmas" from their advertising and stores and will now be all inclusive and add Christmas back. At no time did any of these stores remove Kwanza, Hanukah or Eid from their stores or advertising.

Best Buy has a policy of not mentioning any religious holidays, and that's fine too.

Sparrow

My garden is filled with papayas and mangos
My life is a mixture of reggaes and tangos
Taste for the good life, I can live it no other way
- Jimmy Buffett
 
>
>>Well, the whole point of this thread was the poster
>objecting
>>that her daughter was being taught about Kwanzaa in school.
>
>
>
>I think you may be mistaken about this. I believe her goal was
>to gather information about Kwanzaa in an effort to answer her
>own questions about it. I didn't get the sense that she was
>upset.
>

Michele, you might be right. From her quote, below, though, I did not think that she was happy with the idea of having to include Kwanzaa with other holidays.

"I really don't want to ruffle any feathers, but if we are acknowledging religious or spiritual celebrations, why are we making special acknowledgements for previously non-existing cultural creations? If all of our ethinc groups come up with very legitimate celebrations of their CULTURE - shall they all be acknowledged separately so as to be PC?"
 
RE: Speaking of PC, can somebody help me understand Kw...

Michele, I'm glad we can agree about something. I could not agree more that making Christmas a federal holiday was a major blunder. I love my days off, but prefer to be off for a holiday like Thanksgiving or Martin Luther King's birthday. There is nothing scarier to me than a blending of church and state. I strongly and passionately support the abolishment of that statute.

Nancy
 
RE: Speaking of PC, can somebody help me understand Kw...

I’m going to weave my thoughts all together so bear with me.

People send out all kinds of announcements to share their joyous news to their friends and family. Christmas cards (& Christmas greetings) are no different. The birth of Christ is a very special event to Christians and they are sharing their happy news. I get birth and wedding announcements all the time. I may not agree that the people involved should get married or have children, but it’s not all about me. The way I see it, friends and family members are sharing a special event in their lives and want to include me. The different Seasonal cards (& greetings) that I receive are all welcomed in my home, just as the people are who send them are welcome. It has never crossed my mind that people should hide who they are because of who I am. I also agree that it is very thoughtful when someone offers a greeting (&/or card) that has a special meaning to the person receiving the greeting. It is always nice when people make an effort to understand others better, whether they are on the recieving or giving end of things.

jordan
 
RE: Speaking of PC, can somebody help me understand Kw...

>>>There is nothing scarier to me than a blending of church and state. I strongly and passionately support the abolishment of that statute.<<<

I'm in total agreement with you on that statement, Nancy!

Lori
 
RE: Speaking of PC, can somebody help me understand Kw...

jordan,
I don't understand your post. The sending of announcements is to share the sender's news, and it's about the sender. When you send someone a card that says "have a happy birthday", it's not about the sender, it's about the sendee. It is self-evident that the sending of cards to wish someone a happy something is about the sendee, and not about the sender.
Nancy
 
Michele, I've been puzzling over your post for some time. You sent me an adorable card with a snowman on the front that said "Season's Greetings and Best Wishes for a Happy New Year!" It was sweet, personal and thoughtful and I loved it. From your posts, I take it that you send Christmas cards to your friends who celebrate Christmas, which is lovely. My only point was that I think it's a bit less thoughtful to send a religious card to someone who isn't of that religion. In short, my point is that I think people should be more like you. Yet, you're the one disagreeing with me. Hmmmmmmmm. I'm still puzzling over this.......
Nancy
 

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