snap kicks vs. thrust kicks

M

mkunkel

Cathlete
I love KPC (especially the Kickbox and Strength Circuit Premix).

Anyway, Cathe often does snap kicks, but says we can also do thrust kicks. I've only used one other kickboxing video before Cathe's and they did thrust kicks, so I do those. I'm just curious what others do and why? Are there different advantages to one over the other and is one type harder on the knees?

What about side kicks compared to roundhouse kicks?

Just wondering...
Melissa
 
Hi Melissa!

I've been a Taekwondo student and instructor for over fifteen years. In TKD, we typically use the thrust front kicks- snap kicks are used predominantly in Japanese styles. Both are good kicks and your knee should be fine as long as you keep your foot tight (from knee to foot) as you're executing the kick. The ball of your foot should be extended out and toes pulled back towards you- imagine wearing high heels. This should keep your knee to foot tight and minimize stress or injury to the knee. In fact, I was in a skiing accident where I fell and my knee hit the snow but my foot did not come out of the binding and the tip of the ski was stuck in the wet snow. I heard a crack! and thought I broke my leg. Turns out I strained the inside ligament of my knee. My orthopedic doctor told me that what kept me from tearing the ligament was the fact that I did Taekwondo for so long that the muscles surrounding my knee were very strong and thus protected my knee and ligaments.

IMHO, the thrust kick works the quads more than the snap- also remember to rechamber your leg (ie pull your foot back towards your hams)after executing the kick (for better body balance and control- leads to better safety).

As for SK's and RK's- both are good kicks as well. SK's tend to work the quads more than RK's, RK's work the obliques more than SK's. Again, keep your knee to foot tight but with these kicks I keep my foot *flat* and straight as opposed to the angling of the foot in FK's. HTH!

Elizabeth
 
>IMHO, the thrust kick works the quads more than the snap- also
>remember to rechamber your leg (ie pull your foot back towards
>your hams)after executing the kick (for better body balance
>and control- leads to better safety).

I tend to think that the thrust kick works the total leg more, and the snap kick works the quad more.
 
When you execute the thrust front kicks, the leg is extended and held out longer in that position than with a snap front kick. This engages the quads and hip flexors more. You can try one of the drills we do with our students to build power and endurance in their front kicks- stand, pick up and chamber your kicking leg, extend it out (for a count of 3) and hold it for five seconds, rechamber then set down. Both kicks are good maritial arts kicks and work the quads but the thrust kick when done properly engages the above muscles even more so than the snap kick. That's the point I was making in my first post. Main thing is safety when executing either technique.

Elizabeth
 
Elizabeth, your reply to Melissa was very informative.

I wonder,though, why I am such a spaz at kickboxing. I know I'm relatively new at it, but I'm pretty coordinated and, even when new to step/hi lo, could pick up complex moves (a la Cathe and Christi) fairly quickly. When it comes to a simple kickbox combo such as "jab/cross/hook/upper/front kick 2X/pause," it takes me SO many reps to get it down.

Were you kickboxing enthusiasts slow to catch on too? Are you fairly coordinated otherwise?

I've read several posts of Kathryn's where she recommended Kathy Smith Kickboxing, so I got it and it has helped, but I find it boring. Oh well, I guess the only way to get better is to keep doing it!
 
Hi Susan!

I seemed to be attached to my computer today!:p DH is taking a quick nap- this week was esp busy for him.

Thanks for your compliment about my post. It does take a bit of time to learn these combos. What you can do is practice (in front of a mirror) by breaking the combos down- eg jab (3X), jab, cross (3x) until you complete the entire combo. And if I miss a move- who cares! I'm havin' a blast here!:p So what I'm saying is that everyone misses a move now and then even the most practiced. And since you're pretty coordinated with step routines, I'd say you'll catch on with the KB'ng pretty quickly.

I've done Tae Bo and I think that Billy Blanks does a terrific job of breaking down each technique and the proper form. I haven't done Kathy Smith so I can't comment. I think Cathe does a good job explaining the techniques also.

Main thing is have fun and enjoy yourself- the combos will come with time and practice. I know you're gonna do great! Take care!

Elizabeth
 
I'd say I have average coordination: not a klutz, but not the most graceful. It did take a while for my "brain-body" connection to develop so that I could easily do the moves and "get" the sequences of moves.

I remember when I first did Stephanie Steele's kickboxing and boxiing workouts (boring, by the way), I thought she went SO FAST, and I couldn't keep up all the time. A couple of years later, I got one of her videos out again, and I was able to keep up with her easily without missing a combo.

It also took me a while to get my hip and leg movements coordinated when I did punches, like a cross punch, but now it happens automatically.

I don't recall recommending Kathy Smith's workout very often, LOL. A perhaps less boring workout that also shows the moves and builds up a bit more slowly is Powerstrike Millenium III. Powerstrike workouts are advanced, but MIII has a more gradual build-up to the more intense parts.
 
Kathryn >^. .^<

Hi Kathryn a little off the topic here but Can you give me your advice on the Powerstrike compare to KPC. Or they similar? I was thinking of adding more Kickboxing since I love the KPC. TIA.
 
Thanks for your replies, Elizabeth and Kathryn! I figured it's just a matter of sticking with it. It's reasurring to know it might have been tough at first for those who are "experts" at it now.

And Kathryn, I believe you recommended K. Smith to kickboxing beginners over at VF. I think it was a great recommendation (I got it cheap on a trade) and it has some wonderful form pointers. I've heard a lot of good things about Powerstrike. Do you know if they're planning on releasing any workouts on DVD?

Elizabeth, which Tae Bo DVD's do you like and why?
 
Hello Susan!

I have his older videos (eg *Get Ripped* and *Taebo Live*). The *Taebo Live* has an instructional video where Billy really breaks down the techniques so you have good form when executing them. I've heard people say that they got injured doing his workouts but I think, as with anything else, GOOD FORM is everything- to maximize both safety and results. His Basic tapes are 1/2 hr and the advanced are about 1 hr. He's very encouraging and motivating- gee, much like some other Fitness person we all know and love...;-) . Take care and have a terrific Sunday!

Elizabeth
 
Wow, was I surprised to login this morning and see all the responses. Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I think I will stick to using the thrust kick, it feels better to me.

I didn't have too hard of a time learning the kickboxing moves - until the kicks were thrown in. I was just kicking to keep up with Cathe without having the time to concentrate on form. I think I just need to warm up by doing some of the kicks slower, then speeding them up while maintaining form. The only other KB tape I have is XKO Kickboxing which came with a bonus video that concentrates on just doing the kicks slowly. Burns the legs pretty good too.

Which part of KPC do you all like the best? I like the combos - especially #1 and #2. The premix with those is great. I hope she does more kickboxing videos...

Melissa
 
MIII is the only Powerstrikes on DVD, and I don't think they plan on releasing anymmore. In fact, I've heard that Illaria and Patricia are no longer working together, so there may be no more Powerstrikes workouts at all!!
 
RE: Kathryn >^. .^<

I really like Powerstrike, and I enjoy KPC because it is more like Powerstrike than CK was, especially the second part of KPC. Powerstrike uses just kickboxing and boxing moves, with no hi-lo choreography stuck in. The two instructors, who have a great rapport, teach combos by starting with one or two moves, then building up. Some people don't like the fact that they do several combos on one side of the body before doing them on the other side, but I kind of like the change in workout format.

Unfortunately, IMO, the "Millenium" series is good, but not the best Powerstrike. Some earlier workouts, which are no longer available, seemed more intense, but the camera work was often pretty bad (especially in the earliest ones, which still had great workouts, but awful camera work. It's a testament to how good I find the workouts to be that I can put up with the extreme closeups--wanna see individual beads of sweat anyone?--and weird camera angles--somebody's baby brother must have just gotten a camera for his birthday---on Powerstrike 1).

Illaria Montagnari is a black belt in at least one martial art, and her form is perfect (one thing I like in my kb workouts--I did CK yesterday, and kept "telling" Cathe to keep her elbow in!)
 
Any martial arts experts out there who can assist with this question?

I have the impression, but don't know for sure, that the main difference between these two kicks is the striking surface. The thrust kick is intended to push/strike your opponent away. The strike is delivered by the ball of the foot and a pushing motion - as if you are pushing a door closed. The movement is bringing your knee up high and close to your chest then angling the foot so the ball of the foot faces forward and leads the leg, then straightening the leg (but not all the way - keep tiny bend in the knee).

By contrast, in the snap kick, the impact is delivered either by the toes (intended to be used when the kicker is wearing shoes with sufficient toe covering to prevent the toes from being mashed or damaged) or the top of the foot (think of a football punter who releases the ball over the top of his foot which then delivers the kick). The snap kick is intended as a groin strike or a chin or head strike if the opponent happens to be bent over or leaning forward.

As I say, don't know if this is all stictly correct and sometimes people use different labels for the same thing.

Any black belts out there who can assist or correct any misinformation here? thanks.
 
Not a martial arts expert, but I've been doing kickboxing since '99 (started with Kathy Smith/Keith Cooke and Billy Blanks). My DS and DD have been taking karate for 2 years and I've never seen their 6th degree black belt instructor explain a kick, punch or strike any differently from Kathy/Keith or Billy. IMO, those are great tapes for learning form and technique. I still use Billy's advanced "Live" tapes and his Get Ripped Advanced workouts.

Anyhoo, just this past week, my kid's instructor was talking about the side kick and how in thrust kicks (back kick, front thrust and side kick) the heel leads the kick and should be the point of impact on the target. This is done to maximize the power behind the kick. (Think anatomy: when standing barefoot, your whole leg is over your heel when you stand) The round house or front snap kick impact point is the shin or top of the foot depending on where you are striking your opponent. Your toes should never be the point of impact as they will break. Also, the heel should be slightly higher than the toe when executing the side kick.

Just to confuse everyone, I know in KM that Cathe says the outer side of sole is the impact point for side kicks. It may be that in different forms of martial arts (TKD etc.) the strike area is different. Not sure if this helped anyone, but there you go!

Jonahnah
Chocolate IS the answer, regardless of the question.
 
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