Since there is so much controversy right now.....

[hiitdogs]

The French system has been having money problems longer than the recession. Here is an article about the French system.

It is mostly positive, but they do pay 40% if their income for it at this time, and that is not enough to cover the costs.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/051709dnbusfrance.40cc221.html

This article says they have run a deficit since 1985:
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_28/b4042070.htm

I just wish journalists would do their research. I don't know where they get that 40% of the income goes to healthcare. The contribution is 19.7 % of taxable wages, the employer pays 12.8 %, the employee pays 6.9%. In Germany the contribution is 18.5%, half is covered by employer and half by employee.
It is not a perfect system and the reason why it runs deficits is that both in Germany and France people who have no income or don't work receive full health care benefits without having to pay anything.

Despite of that Germany spends 10.8 % of the GDP on health care, has everyone covered, with much better outcomes. The US spent 16 % of the GDP on health care with half of its citizens covered, not to mention the underinsured and bankruptcy of people when they get sick and peope dying because they can't get treatment due to lack of insurance.

I think the US is the only country where I go to the doctor and pay my co-pay and then I still have to pay deductibles which I don't know how much at the time of buying. That's one heck of a business model.

 

[Pearlstrand]

The percentage of Americans without health insurance in 2008 was 15.4%, according to census figures:

http://www.webmd.com/healthy-aging/news/20090910/more-americans-have-no-health-insurance

 

[dorothyrd]

I just wish journalists would do their research. I don't know where they get that 40% of the income goes to healthcare. The contribution is 19.7 % of taxable wages, the employer pays 12.8 %, the employee pays 6.9%. In Germany the contribution is 18.5%, half is covered by employer and half by employee.
It is not a perfect system and the reason why it runs deficits is that both in Germany and France people who have no income or don't work receive full health care benefits without having to pay anything.

Despite of that Germany spends 10.8 % of the GDP on health care, has everyone covered, with much better outcomes. The US spent 16 % of the GDP on health care with half of its citizens covered, not to mention the underinsured and bankruptcy of people when they get sick and peope dying because they can't get treatment due to lack of insurance.

I think the US is the only country where I go to the doctor and pay my co-pay and then I still have to pay deductibles which I don't know how much at the time of buying. That's one heck of a business model.

I am not disagreeing that the French system seems like a good bet. What I am pointing out is that they are having trouble affording it. And this country is already having trouble affording thing.

I think something needs to be done, however, I am concerned this bill is being rammed down our throats, and we don't know what kind of spending it is adding. It is so large, and they have not read what they are voting on. It is like they just want to put something into place and get it done and spend more money. Why can't it be smaller and address the crucial issues? Why can't it be more open exactly what is in it? Why can't both sides work together on this?(slapping the hands of Rep and Dems alike because both parties are very guilty of going against something just because it is in the hands of the other party and not considering the ramifications of not passing something or passing something that is way to costly).

Our government needs to be more fiscally responsible, and from the small to the large, they just seem to spend, spend, spend. If I ran my household budget like this, I would have debt out the wazoo, but I don't because I am responsible about how I spend. Whether it is war, or perks, or health care, I simply do not trust our people in government to do anything right with this stuff.

 

[BuffyR]

How does a conversation about Obama always end up as a rant about Bush/Cheney? I can go on and on about what they did wrong, but it has no bearing on what Obama is doing now, or the HC legislation that may or may not be passed even though most people don't want it to be passed in its current form. People want something done, just not what is being proposed in this bill.

I was merely responding to another poster about the war and Bush. I didn't bring it up but when I see BS I feel compelled to respond.

 

[carres1973]

The problem is it is just not true!!! There is no wait period in Germany, the insurance industry is regulated. Unlike in the US the insurance company cannot overwrite the doctor. Your health care there truly is between doctor and patient, no insurance bureacrat will be making your diagnosis from his/her desk. If the doctor says it is medically necessary, there is not much that the insurance company can do.

You don't have to get approval for everything whereas in the US you can be carried in on a stretcher with a gaping hole in your head and the insurance will drag their feet and ask why you didn't get prior approval. Yeah, because I planned 7 days ahead of time that I will fall off my horse on Tuesday

Whenever I hear one of those douchebag politicians talk about the bad "socialist" healthcare in Germany or France I want to jump into the tv, they don't even know where those countries are on a map let alone how healthcare works there. Not only that but they don't seem to understand how health care works in the US. Try and get an appointment the same day when you are sick, let alone get an appointment with a specialist, be prepared to wait for several weeks to months.

Not to mention the cost!! You can get the same medication in Germany for 1/3 or 1/4 of the price that it costs here. And no, Germany is not a third world country, they are just as good at manufacturing the drugs there as we are here and salararies and standard of living are just as good if not better as here.

Unlike here, nobody in Germany dies because they can't get medical care, unlike here, nobody has to file for bankruptcy or lose everything they have because they have the audacity to get sick and are underinsured. But unlike here German doctors overall are a lot more into prevention than pill popping.

Ugggh! The misinformation that is spread to scare people drives me batty. Steps off soapbox. Phew!

Carola - I am not "spreading misinformation." Maybe where you are from in Germany it is not true. However, I know for a fact it IS true in the VA health system and in England. My step-daughter has two masses in her abdomen - one the size of a grapefruit the other the size of a lemon! She has had to wait FIVE MONTHS for surgery. She has been in terrible pain and unable to work this entire time but they have waited to schedule her surgery until there was an "open slot" for a government insurance patient. Just like in the United Statesm, the difference in compensation to healthcare professionals varies between what the government run insurance pays and what private insurance pays.

Having said that, I REALLY WANT some type of universal healthcare. What I am hoping for is ONE government run program and keep the insurance companies. I don't want that many more people out of work! Do away with having both Medicare and Medicaid. There is so much fraud (especially in Medicaid) that they need to be re-done correctly from the ground up. Model them on some of the public-option programs in "socialistic" countries that work. Change the features that don't.

I would honestly agree to pay more in taxes (SHUDDER) if the student loan process and healthcare were run closer to the way they are in England.

I am hoping we as a country can come together and fix what is clearly a broken issue. We cannot afford to no longer care what happens to our fellow Americans. I think it is morally irresponsible and also expensive! As someone else already mentioned, we are already paying with higher insurance premiums, higher healthcare costs, etc.

Carrie

 

[double t]

I was merely responding to another poster about the war and Bush. I didn't bring it up but when I see BS I feel compelled to respond.

Well, what I stated isn't BS but we can disagree of course.

 

[dr.mel_PT]

The sad thing is, I really doubt anything will be done with US healthcare and if it is, it will definitely be after our life times. The scare tactics used by the media and even politicians themselves are what's keeping people from embracing any change to the system. I'm so tired of people spitting out misinformation that's just regurgitated from something they heard on the news or read in a paper. Our healthcare system is corrupt, end of story, and it needs to be changed. During the recession, how were businesses failing left and right meanwhile the health insurance companies took on a 300% profit? Why have the average cost of premiums doubled in 2010 with less coverage than we had last year? Why are drugs marked up so ridiculously high? Why can't we choose our own insurance companies based on our needs or buy across state lines? We can do it for our cars but we can't for our own medical needs?! I find it funny how we pride ourselves on being this great nation, yet we have the healthcare equivalent of a 3rd world country, all because our govt is one big greedy mass of corruption.

 

[hiitdogs]

Carola - I am not "spreading misinformation." Maybe where you are from in Germany it is not true.

I wasn't referring to you when I said "spreading misinformation", Carrie. I apologize that it came across that way. I was referring to some "journalists" and politicians but I can see that I didn't make that clear with my comment about spreading misinformation.

It doesn't matter where in Germany I am from. There are no regional differences in health care in Germany. The health care is run regional but regulated on a federal level.