schools punishing with food

S

sarab

Cathlete
Okay, I need some more of your expert advice!!!!

As some of you may know, my son started K this year. I was very upset one Friday because the principal decided the playground was too messy so the kids could not have snack on Monday. They eat their snack at 2nd recess.

Okay, I was livid.....I called the principal and tried explaining to her the dangers of withholding food as a punishment. (I did not even mention collective punishment, which is also wrong!!! Some of the kids were leaving trash behind, not all, but all were being punished.) She said this punishment usually takes one time and the kids learn to throw their snack trash away. She does not like to do this very often because the school does not make a profit if they don't sell snack that day. Basically, she could care less if the kids have hungry bellies, she was worried about losing out on money....pardon my french, but.......WTF??????

Monday rolled around and when I picked ds up from school, he was hungry. I did not think this would happen again. On Wed of the same week, I picked Tyler up and he asked if he could get his snack. He said the teacher took snack away because some of the kids were loud getting their snack out of their backpacks. So....2 out of 3 days I had to pick him up hungry. I called his teacher. She claims that snack is not mandatory, so therefore, it is a priviledge. (huh?) She told me to span the time out between our meals so my children get used to going longer without food. She also said while my children are at this school, this will happen. I reminded her that this policy is not in the handbook and parents need to be informed.

I was not satisified so I called the principal....again. I told her that there are problems in this world such as eating disorders and childhood obesity. Punishing with food could lead to such problems. I told her that snack is necessary and that treats (cake, cookies, etc) are priviledges. I also told her she will be getting a fax from my son's dr.

I reported this to ds's dr and he faxed a note saying Tyler does need his snack. Well, I picked my son up today and he was hungry. For some reason, the kids in his class did not get snack today. He did not know why. I tried calling the principal and teacher and did not reach either one. (probably a good thing....I needed a workout before I talk to either one of them!!!)

So now, I am so angry I can barely see straight. They went against a dr's note, which is illegal. Tomorrow, I am making an appt with the superintendent and possibly the school board president.

What do you all think about this? Do you think it is appropriate to punish with food? Is it right to disobey the handbook? Shouldn't this policy be in the handbook? What would you do?

Thanks so much!!!!!

Sara
http://www.picturetrail.com/saraburnham1
 
I'm sorry that you (and your son) are going through this. There is also an issue with control here, being happy and comfortable in school. I would not be happy in a place where time/breaks were supposed to be set aside for a snack, but I may not get it depending on the behavior or mood of others. You'd be hard pressed to find a situation where people felt they could treat adults like that, but for some reason these people think it is okay to treat children this way. There are about a billion other ways to get a point across and affect behavior change in children, witholding food seems borderline corporal.
As an aside, my nephew is in 1st grade this year. He came home from school the other day and FREAKED OUT about a silly little thing and couldn't stop crying. This is VERY unlike him! I finally suggested a bowl of cereal with milk and he said between huffs that he would like one. He ate it, and calmed immediately. He totally wolfed it down and asked for another. While he was eating the second bowl and was jovially talking about his day (total 180 degree change here) I went through his backback and found his lunchbox. He had not eaten his snack (it wasn't witheald from him, he was just too engaged with a friend during snack time). I bring this up to make the point that hungry kids have a harder time with behavior than kids who are allowed to eat regularly.
When I talked to my nephew later about what had originally set him off he said he didn't even know why it made him so upset.
Hunger aint a good thing!
Good luck with this!
--Laura
 
I don't have a child, and I am very sorry to hear about this. What bothers me the most, though, is that there is TONS of research out there supporting snacks and such for kids!!! Their little tummies can't handle large meals with long times between (we adults aren't supposed to either, but that's another thing) as well as their metabolism is so high that they need the snacks as well!!! I wonder if the teachers/principal realize that by with-holding the snacks, that they are actually adding to the behaviour problems in class? A child who is hungry, whether they realize it or not, can't pay attention and tends to mis-behave, although they don't oftem know why.
What about those little ones with diabetes? Are they not allowed to eat when there blood sugar gets low because they have played their little hearts out on the playground?????

They are also using food as negative behavior reinforcement in a world where there's already too much of that going on!

I hope that you can get this straightened out!!!
 
Sara,

What the hell! What has happened in our schools? In my humble opinion, we need to go back to the basics with discipline issues. This is not bootcamp...you don't punish all for one or two children! It appears to me that it is easier to perform this discipline than what we had when we were children. I am disgusted.
Fight the good battle, Sara. I don't think enough parents are involved in the daily school activities. I am not talking about sports either.;-)

Keep us updated and good luck to you!
 
I agree with all the above. Melissa is right- that is the kind of punishment you find in the military, but even they don't use food against you. It very inportant for small children to have full belly's, and not be hungry. How can they effectively learn? Because they were to loud getting snacks out of their bags? Give me a break! They are kindergartners for Heaven's sake! I wish I was closer, I would be right there with you fighting this!
I hope you get it resolved soon.

Maeghan AKA megadoo

New pics added in Sept 7, 2006 in boys sept album!!
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?username=megadoo2&x=15&y=7

http://www.3fatchicks.net/img/bar072/slider-but3/lb/203/145/150/.png[/
 
I don't think taking snack away once in a while is going to do a child irreversible physical harm. I and many others went through grade school with no snacks at all. We had lunch period and that was it. That said, I don't think it's a good idea to use food as a punishment OR a reward. Food should be neutral, IMO.

ETA: I'm revising my opinion slightly because I just remembered how I was in kindergarten about milk. I couldn't stand milk as a kid and didn't start drinking it until well into my teens. No one was talking lactose intolerance back then, but milk would literally make me gag and vomit. My mom repeatedly told the teacher not to insist I drink mine during milk time but she did, and I would have to sneak it into the garbage or drink it and get sick. Finally my mom told me it was ok to disobey the teacher in this one instance. Sara, maybe you could tell your son this and explain to the teacher that you've told him to eat his snack regardless? This may cause more conflict, though.

Sparrow

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming ‘Wow - what a ride!’ — Peter Sage
 
No way. If it was my child, I would call the newspaper and let them take it from there.}( The principal should be in another career if she punishes kindergardners that way. Time out is much more effective imho.
 
I don't agree with punishing by withholding snack time. Our school has withheld treats before. Why aren't the kids causing the problems being punished (in another way!)?

I have alot of problems with schools lately. We have such strict attendance guidelines now. I don't get it. They want you to send the kids to school sick? My middle dd catches everything that goes around and I have to get a doctor's excuse and practically a note from the president every time. Last month she went to the office and the nurse called me to pick her up. I signed her out on the chart as going home sick. Remember THEY CALLED ME to pick her up. The next day she went back, they told her they needed an excuse. What??


But here's a story to beat yours...a few weeks ago I went to the school to bring cupcakes for my youngest dd's birthday who is in kindergarten as well. They were just going out to recess so I went out with them to watch dd in action with her new friends. Now I live in the deep south and we were in the middle of a heat wave. I believe it was over a hundred degrees everyday that week. It was about 1 p.m and brutally hot out. The kids had no business being out there at all! You know how they all run around crazy when they get out there? Not this day, everyone was sort of wandering around trying to find some shade.

When it was time to go in, each teacher stood with her arm up and the kids lined up in front of her (all the kindergarten go out at the same time). One of the other teachers was telling her kids " Now as soon as we step into the hall, I do not want to hear any talking. If you want to go get water, you had better be quiet. As soon as I hear you talking, I will send you back to the room without a trip to the water fountain"

What the F***!!! No water for punishment when its over 100 and they shouldn't even be out there! I watched as these kids dripping in sweat took turns taking maybe 2 sips from the water fountain and then going back to their rooms. I was furious. Luckily, my dd's teacher is a better breed! She has each kid fill a plastic tumbler with water and sit in their seats and take several minutes to drink it and cool down. I swear some teachers have some kind of psychological, control, nazi problem.
x( x( Of course there are so many that truly care for the kids. Marnie
 
I definately don't think food and snacks should be used as punishment. That's outrageous. My kids are a bit older now, but I can't ever recall snacks being withheld for poor behavior. Reward systems were usually used, such as stars given to reinforce good behavior and after attaining so many stars, some kind of reward was given. I think positive reinforcement works so much better to improve behavior in the little ones than punishment. The kids were so happy when their stars would add up. But even if some kind of punishment is given, it certainly shouldn't be withholding food, for God's sake. As so many have stated, the little ones need to eat every few hours to perform and learn at their best. Keep fighting on this one, I say.
 
Sara here is one mother of kids who is 100% behind you. Withholding nutritious food is dangerous, period, and using food as a weapon is a sure way to encourage bad behavior around eating. Fight this, get with the school psychologist/counselor as well who can work with the teachers and that daffy principal to suggest alternative, more effective and healthier forms of discipline to bring about the desired result. We never use food as punishment, ever. The only rule is if you do not eat dinner, you don't get dessert. There are foods that make you grow big and strong, and foods that don't. No bad foods. And I am very careful each day to pack snacks that have nutritional value so can sustain my kids between meals. And my kids eat very well, with few issues.

The nerve of that teacher to tell you to space out meals more! Get out of my personal life, teacher!

Keep us posted. I want to see how this turns out. Good luck! And what a great mom you are.

Julie
 
Keep fighting that one - I would be furious and I don't have kids (yet).........

I would go straight to the superintendant - screw the principal at this point - she has a duty to sort of support her staff, so it puts her in a difficult spot - HOWEVER - the superintendant has a duty to make sure everyone does their job properly - obviously what they are doing is not right - if that doesn't work - go to the radio and newspaper - have them investigate the story......I am sure it would outrage other parents....

If they are too noisy during snack time, why not withhold recess time??

Recess is a priviledge if you ask me - food is not - kids will just go home and pig out on chips/pop/junk food if they start withholding a good nutricious apple........
 
Of course thats not fare...AT ALL. Snack time isn't a "privledge" its a part of everyones day. Everyone has a snack or two during the day and espeically young kids like your DS needs it. He's growing and needs the healthy food I bet you pack him to allow him to get through his day better. THey always say how eating good and healthy before, during, and after school makes children to BETTER in school. So unless the prinicpal wants all the kids to fail, why not bring pack snacktime????? I bet when you called them and they didn't answer is because they were having THEIR snack}(}( What a bunch of bitches and lozers!! Sorry that just makes me mad.

Hope everything works out
Laugh and the world laughs with you. Cry and you cry with your girlfriends.
-Laurie Kuslansky-

~Adri~
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Well, I think it would be interesting to see how this teacher & principal make it through their workday without being allowed to eat lunch.
 
LOL Laura!! I agree:D

Laugh and the world laughs with you. Cry and you cry with your girlfriends.
-Laurie Kuslansky-

~Adri~
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I agree that food is a necessary requirement, not a priviledge to be taken away. Hooray for you standing up for your son! If we parents don't stand up for our children, who will?

Last year in K, my son forgot his lunch in the car. I didn't notice it. At lunch time he had no lunch and the teacher asked him about it. Knowing that I always take care of him, my son told the teacher that his mom would probably bring it to him. Well, he sat through the entire lunch watching the other kids eat. He said several of the lunch room teacher monitors commented to him about not having lunch but never did anything else about it. Well, when I picked him up he jumped into the backseat and ate his lunch like a starving animal. I swear it broke my heart because he said he was so hungry watching the other kids eat and not having anything. He hadn't had snack that day either because it was in his lunchbox in my car also.
 
>I agree that food is a necessary requirement, not a
>priviledge to be taken away. Hooray for you standing up for
>your son! If we parents don't stand up for our children, who
>will?
>
>Last year in K, my son forgot his lunch in the car. I didn't
>notice it. At lunch time he had no lunch and the teacher
>asked him about it. Knowing that I always take care of him,
>my son told the teacher that his mom would probably bring it
>to him. Well, he sat through the entire lunch watching the
>other kids eat. He said several of the lunch room teacher
>monitors commented to him about not having lunch but never did
>anything else about it. Well, when I picked him up he jumped
>into the backseat and ate his lunch like a starving animal. I
>swear it broke my heart because he said he was so hungry
>watching the other kids eat and not having anything. He
>hadn't had snack that day either because it was in his
>lunchbox in my car also.

Amber, that's unbelievable that no one got him anything to eat! When I worked with kids I gave up my own lunch several times to little ones who had forgotten theirs! Then again maybe the monitors and teachers were afraid to give him something he wasn't supposed to eat?

Sparrow

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming ‘Wow - what a ride!’ — Peter Sage
 
Yet another reason I'm glad to be homeschooling my hungry little crew.

Sara, I just wanted to post a word of encouragement and support in your fight. I see firsthand during our school day what happens to my boys' concentration (right out the window) and behavior (holey moley) when they get hungry.

I have a DS who had been abused and starved as an infant (he's adopted, I didn't do it) and we spent two years teaching him to eat...how to eat, that it's ok to eat, ask when you're hungry, etc. Just think, there are children in your child's school with "food issue" backgrounds whether it is known or not (I'd bet on this), can you imagine what withholding food for punishment is doing to them?

BTW, I sure as heck wouldn't behave for people who refused to allow me to eat when I'm hungry. I'd be attacking them!!!

You are right on this issue.
 
Please, I know we're not really slamming all teachers because of the idiocy of a few, right?


I would really like to eat my lunch now...please? ;)

Quite often our principal doesn't get lunch anyway because of this or that situation that needs her attention RIGHT NOW.

I know I would never want to be a principal. A thankless job, for sure.

I hate when some in our profession makes the rest of us look bad.
 
This post is very upsetting to me. I have a 2 1/2 year old daughter who just started pre-school last week. To think that kids are being punished by going hungry is terrible! I remember when I was in 4th grade I had a teacher who let you keep a cup on your desk for water. You could fill it up in the morning before class, at lunch or during a recess period, but once it was gone you were not allowed any more until the next "break". I remember I would sit at my desk in class and stare at my empty water glass wishing I could have more. I wouldn't be able to concentrate on class because all I could think about was how much I wanted more water (I live in AZ, so in the summertime water is an absolute MUST!) It was torture! I feel this is the same thing. I know how distracted and grumpy I get when I'm hungry. And much the same thing, I can't focus on anything except that fact that I'm starving. If I were there Sara, I would be right beside you! I wish you luck and please keep us updated on what happens. The fact that the principal and the teacher aren't at all concerned about this is disturbing!

Katie
 
Wow, this is really not good at all. My son has diabetes, and if the principal did that at my sons school he could go into a diabetic coma. On top of that those poor children having to go hungry. All of the other posters said what I would say about that. But I honestly would look into another school or school district. Maybe even call the super intendant and let them know what is happening and how upset it is making you.
Good luck. That is just horrible.

Kathy
 
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