S&H with an endurance series?

J

JamminX3

Cathlete
[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jun-04-02 AT 06:43AM (Est)[/font][p]Hi Cathe,

I hope that you and your family are doing well.

I posted this elsewhere on the board, but haven't received any input yet, so I was wondering if you'd help me. I'm an ecto/endo with about 3 sizes to lose. And of course, I want what everyone else wants: muscle definition, which is gonna be hard for me to come by. I've read a couple of posts by folks who've cut out (or cut waaaaaay back) on cardio, stuck with wt. work, and lost a significant amt. of wt. So, I plan to continue my S&H rotation (this is week 5), add in the PS series and cut back the cardio to 2-3 very short (12 min) interval runs per week.

Do you think that adding the PS series would hamper my muscle growth? Too much? What about a more endurance focused series? Still too much?

TIA!!

Robin http://www.smilies-world.de/Smilies/Smilies_klein_1/flower.gif
 
I'm anxious to see the replies you get, Robin. I've been considering the same thing. I just started Slow and Heavy this week and was thinking of doing PS at the end of the week. I wasn't really thinking of cutting back on my cardio, though. I do cardio at least 4-5 days a week.
 
Sharon, I do alot of cardio also. 5-6 days/wk, so this is gonna be weird for me. I had also read on this board that Cathe cut way back on cardio to get ready for one of her videos/series and that Tracie Long had done NO cardio to get ready for TheFirm's Tort/Hare. Less cardio to preserve muscle mass. I'm also interested to hear Cathe's response, altho, I know she's very busy.

Robin http://www.smilies-world.de/Smilies/Smilies_klein_1/flower.gif
 
What is an ecto/endo??

I am confused by your terminology. I thought ectomorphs were a body type that is thin, do not put on weight or muscle easily, and that they are the opposite of endomorphs, often pear-shaped, soft, easily put on weight, with rounded, zaftig bodies. They may put on muscle, but it's sometimes hard to see definition with the layer of fat on top. Mesomorphs are muscular, compact athletic bodies that put on muscle easily, may even get bulky with overtraining. If you are an ecto/endo, does that mean you are half and half??

Or, am I just totally confused about the terms being used??
 
RE: What is an ecto/endo??

I'm an ectomorph and it's always been hard for me to put on muscle mass. But, I have the endomorph tendency to put on wt. easily. Sort of a mix of both without any of the fringe benefits. It may be tho, that I'm truly not an endomorph, I just put on wt. easily cuz I don't have much muscle mass due to my ecto-ish-ness. Is that clear as mud??? LOL.

Robin http://www.smilies-world.de/Smilies/Smilies_klein_1/flower.gif
 
RE: What is an ecto/endo??

:-wow I just found out that I'm an endomorph! No wonder my definition isn't as visible as other people who don't even work out!:-hmmm
 
RE: What is an ecto/endo??

This post interests me because I've been wondering why you need to cut down on cardio to get more muscle definition...is it in order to free up exercise time for more weight training, or does the cardio do something to muscle mass? I'm trying to get stronger and I do a lot of cardio (because I also need that kind of strength too) and some weight training but maybe I should cut back on the cardio (too bad I enjoy it so much!)...

Can anyone answer that for me?
Thanks!
Jill
 
RE: What is an ecto/endo??

You know, I think for this question it really does matter what body type you have.

As far as "losing large amts of weight", I would be scared if that happened while I was doing a slow and heavy rotation without any cardio. Even if you are losing some fat,...where is all the muscle you want to gain?? Again, if you are an ectomorph and are interested in packing on muscle mass..do the slow and heavy, UP YOUR CALORIES, and then do the endurance rotation while cutting your calories. This should have better results for the muscle gain aspect of your training.

Obviously, muscle definition is just the ability to see the muscles. Either you are an ectomorph, with truly very little muscle and that is why you cannot see them, or you have enough muscle but your fat layer is too thick to see them. How you hold on to muscle also influences the approach you should take. I am a mesomorph, so a slow and heavy rotation really is not as important to me. However, if I cut out all cardio in favor of weights, it is not too noticeable. In other words, I do not gain much more fat this way if my diet is CLEAN.

If you are an ectomorph, or and endo/ecto, I would say do S&H, maybe one cardio a week while upping your quality calories...but still eat clean!! Then, after you are satisfied with the strength and mass gains, cardio up. But keep your calories at about what you were eating before the slow and heavy. With all the extra cardio and endurance, you will lose weight, but you hopefully won't sacrifice the quality mass you have added.

if you are lacking definition, you should either up the weights, up the cardio, or reanalyze your diet...or all three!! depending on your body type. Without really seeing you, I could not say for sure. It is up to you to decide. Good Luck!! I will be interested to see how Cathe replies....Janice
 
RE: What is an ecto/endo??

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jun-08-02 AT 02:22PM (Est)[/font][p]Jill,

In trying to find out the answer myself, I've come across several posts (I've been asking at VF, too) that give anecdotal credence to this theory that less cardio helps to conserve or build more mass (thus help with wt. loss). I don't know why, but it doesn't have to do with the time factor. There's some physiological reason behind it. Also, I'd forgotten that Bill Phillips (Body for Life) thinks this way. Short intense cardios with heavy wt.work to increase mass. I also read a post by Cathe saying that she can't run more than 2 days/wk or she loses mass in her upper body. HHHMMMM....

I agree with Naughtoj that body type has everything to do with it. That's why I posted that I'm an ectomorph. It only makes sense that if too much cardio hinders the muscle mass of someone who builds muscle rather easily (like Cathe), that someone like me with puny muscle making ability, would have a harder time with a lot of cardio. Without question, my lack of mass makes it easier for me to gain wt/fat.

All of a sudden, I realize that strength and endurance in wt. work are 2 different things and how I use them will make a difference. I never really *got* that before. Yes, a strength rotation and then an endurance rotation. NEW CONCEPT!! At least to me.

So excited!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Robin http://www.smilies-world.de/Smilies/Smilies_klein_1/flower.gif
 
RE: What is an ecto/endo??

So Robin, what exactly is the bottom line on strength vs. endurance wt. work with minimal cardio? I have been very interested in your research because I too am an ecto/endo who usually does 5-6 full cardio workouts per week plus wts. - EITHER strength or endurance - and I never really thought about how to plan the wt. work for maximum effectivness. I'm going through a new phase in life (approaching 50) and want to keep and/or build muscle and am wondering if, at 5'7" and size 6, I really need to do all that cardio??? I just started doing CTX with S&H, but should I switch to PS with S&H and then rotate PH with CTX (in other words, endurance rotations seperate from strength rotations or can I mix and match)?

Thanks in advance for any light you can shed on the subject!!

Robin
 
RE: What is an ecto/endo??

Thank you ladies, this is very intersting - it also is helping me understand something my twin sister and I always wonder about: we are identical twins, yet she is always stronger than me, can lift heavier weights even if she is temporarily out of shape and I'm in good shape - I prefer to do, and can handle much more, cardio while she prefers to do and can handle much more weight training. We always joke that we wish we could combine our bodies to make the perfect amature athlete. Preferences aside I see that it might be the fact that she simply DOES more weight training and less cardio and therefore builds more muscle mass and strenth than I do sticking to more cardio with less weights, that she is stronger than me. HMMMMMM. We are both the endomorph soft pear shaped FRUSTRATING body type. I use Cathe cardio and weight workouts on top of my tae kwon do training to try to build strength and I'm starting to think my strategy was not quite right, so I think instead of tacking on extra Cathe cardio tapes every chance I get, I'll try a month or so of using PS more and just do short cardio sessions to keep my cardiovascular chops up, and see what happens to my strength. Thanks again for the information!
 
RE: What is an ecto/endo??

Jillian and RobinC, someone posted in response to my question on the "Open Discussion" board that she had 'heard' that it's good to do a strength rotation and then follow it with an endurance rotation for definition. I found that very interesting. I know that Cathe has posted a lot of rotations for folks and also others have posted their own rotations that seem to have sculpt and endurance vids in the same week, which might seem confusing if you're wondering about all this. My forming theory is that it's all a matter of 1) your specific goals, 2) body type or your body's genetic disposition to build muscle and 3) The shape that you are in at present.

So, for me, it makes sense to focus on the mass NOW. Don't get me wrong. I know that I need cardio, but maybe the minimum right now if I want to build max muscle mass. Once I've gotten some strength built, then I'm able to burn more calories during the day and I can increase the cardio some and focus more on an endurance rotation. Cathe has stated in a previous post that doing an endurance rotation following a strength one won't sacrifice any of your hard earned muscle. (I may be repeating myself. If so, sorry).

This is all in my quest to find out what works for ME. So, far (and it's been over a yr), not much has happened and I've worked very hard at it. I also do A LOT of hard cardio and my diet is pretty good. No sugar since 2/26 and I need a medal for that! LOL.

So anyway, I'm putting this to the test. I'll report back at the end of July any wt/size lost, strength gains, interviews with M&F Hers.



Robin http://www.smilies-world.de/Smilies/Smilies_klein_1/flower.gif
 
RE: What is an ecto/endo??

Good for you Robin!! I am glad to see that you are going to try something unconventional and are not scared to find out the results. Sometimes I think women can be too wrapped up in cardio and calories that they sometimes sacrifice their true potential....muscle wise, that is. I hope you get big and buff!! Remember to keep your cals even or in excess or you will not gain mass, make sure your diet is clean, if not cleaner. Lots of protein!! But I am sure you know all this already!!


And girl...YOU DO DESERVE A METAL!!! Diet is obviously not your problem!!! Good Luck....janice
 
RE: What is an ecto/endo??

Hi Robin & Janice,

What you said makes sense, ESPECIALLY about the cardio and women thing. I am going to try doing the same thing and see what happens. I'm happy with my weight for now, so what I'm going for is STRENGTH. Since adding step workouts my legs are stronger, and slightly more flexible (another problem of mine) but my arms aren't. I'm going to order Slow and Heavy too, last night I did PS BBA and made myself up the weights to challenge myself, I am usually too light when I lift weights for fear of crippling soreness that will make all the pushups I have to do in Tae Kwon Do more miserable than they usually are. Obviously this line of thought is not helping me!

Thanks again,
Jill
 
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