Pushing yourself beyond the burn....

G

getnfit@39

Cathlete
I'm asking this question specifically about shoulders and arms. Larger muscle groups like legs and back are not included in this question.

For developing more definition in shoulders should I increase the weight load when I can reach 15 reps at a certain weight regardless of the "burn" or wait to increase the load when I don't feel the burn as intensely?
I've been in the 8-10#db range for quite some time and I'm wondering if I need to just push myself over the edge?

Presses (overhead/arnold) I can use 15#db usually, sometimes having to drop to 12# for a 3rd set.

Raises (front/side/rear delt) I am stagnating at 8-10#db and can't seem to go higher? I feel a significant burn in the muscles, especially for front raises, but should I be pushing myself to go higher in a certain time frame regardless of the burn?
I know those are smaller muscle groups so I don't want to risk injury, but I do want to increase muscle.

Next, biceps: I'm also stuck at 15#db for curls/hammer curls, and although I do feel a burn, it usually isn't until the 3rd set of any workout, so am I wasting my time with the first 2 sets? But using 20#db is excrutiating and my form is not very sharp because that 5# increase on either side is like "whoa!" So do I try set 1 with 20# to try and fatigue the muscle first, then drop to 15# for the other 2 sets even if my form isn't that sharp with 20#'s?
And this is just for heavier weight work like PS Series or MIS, not talking about endurance at all! :)

Thoughts/suggestions?

Donna




Fitness~It's a journey, not a race!
 
I probably would increase my weight load if I wasn't feeling "the burn".I always feel as if I am wasting time, if I don't feel what I am doing.
Over head presses, we are at the same weight.I don't have 12lbs so on the third set I drop to 10 lbs.
Side raises: I am also stuck between 5-10 lbs.Sometimes it isn't b/c I am burning to much but I just can't get a higher weight up there with out losing control.10lbs are to heavy for some of it but 8lbs would be perfect.Guess who don't have any 8 lbs either?
For your biceps, say if you are doing 16 reps.Sometimes she does 32 reps.Why not switch half way through.Do 8 or 16 with 20lbs and then pick up your 15 lbs.Your only gonna miss one rep by doing this.Then maybe the next set you can do the same thing, until you can lift the 20 lbs with good form.Then maybe on the thrid set do all 15 lbs.
I sometimes grab my 15lbs for hammer curls and bicep curls.I won't do all of the reps with the 15lbs.It's weird b/c I am lifting a heavier weight but i don't feel the burn quite as much if I were using a lighter weight.It probably as alot to do with form and I think that when I am using a lighter weight, I am really concentrated on squeezing the muscle at the top of the movement.
As far as I am concerned.This as alot to do with what Cathe said one time.I think it was in Slow and Heavy, about wishing that companies would make dumbbells by the pound.It would be alot easier if we could just go up one pound.
I probably did help much.But I know where you are comming from.Alot of the times I am looking at my weights and wondering which one I should use.Seems like I have been stuck on certain weights forever.
Lori
 
[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jan-08-03 AT 09:31AM (Est)[/font][p]Let me see if I can answer some of these questions....

For your shoulders (regardless of which exercise) if you are feeling a burn when using the 8/10#, how "intense" is it? If you are getting 15 reps, I've read that you need to increase that weight. HOWEVER, as you are aware, shoulders can be injured very easily. If increasing to say 12# is really difficult for you, drop back to 10. Try doing the first few reps with the higher weight & drop down for the last few. I have found that I can increase my weight if I do this for about a week & increase the number of reps I do heavier each week. For example wk 1 do 2 reps at 12 lbs, wk 2 do 3 reps at 12 lbs.

When I first started doing the Firm, I was a real light weight & bought 1 lb dumbbells (cute little plastic coated things). When I am increasing my weight, I hold the larger weight & one of those puppies. If that is too much, I have some of those ankle weights witht the .5# inserts & I will use that.

For biceps--do you have dumbbell handles that came with your weight set? If not you might want to consider investing in them. There's no way in hell I would increase from 15 to 20# curls. Make your own weight incriments with plates & handles. I've offered it before, I have a fitness shop that sells 1.25# plates (they are so cute!) for $0.49 each. I would be happy to go buy them & ship them to you at cost.

Hope this information helps you.

Deborah

Came back to say I just read on VideoFitness that if you are using handles instead of dumbbells you could use large washers to "microload." They weigh about 6 ounces. Purchase them at Home Depot or hardware store. HOW COOL IS THAT! I'm going to get some today!!!!

http://www.mindundermuscle.com/web pages/banners/HelpBanner.gif
 
I think the "burn" should be part of your consideration; the biggest part of your consideration, as you yourself have noted, is whether you can complete your reps with good form both in the working joint / limb AND trunk form. And, the burn should come from the muscle and not the joint, which would be a very sharp pain.

IMHO, the way to go in terms of increasing weightload is very incrementally, especially for long-lever work (posterior, lateral and anterior delt raises) but also for short-lever work like biceps curls. Trying to go from 15 lbs to 20 lbs is too risky. If you have metal hex dumbbells, invest in PlateMates (available through Perform Better www.perform-better.com, as well as other fitness equipment outlets); these come in a couple of different increments. I have 2 pairs of PlateMates; each PlateMate is 1.25 lbs each, and a pair adds 2.5 lbs onto the dumbbell.

Also consider adding weight load through adjustable wrist weights; although the weight load will be a tad less on the wrist because the wrist is closer to the working joint, added weight is added weight.

I almost never add more than 1 lb each time I increase my weight loads for upper body work, and that seems to work well for sustained strength increases.

Hope this helps - hope it was in English . . .

A-jock
 
If you feel like you can get more reps out then you should increase your weight. But, only if you still have good form. It sounds like you may have to do some shopping for your biceps weight.

I also will start out with a high weight and when I hit failure or bad form I'll go down to the next weight and finish out the set.

I'm impressed with the amount of weight you ladies lift. I've been lifting for almost two years now (and also lifted before my pregnancy) and I am not up to your weights. Good job!

Andrea
 
Agree with what others have said: my own method is similar, when I hit a bit of a "plateau" with a weight load, I revisit my form. I usually find that I can improve it and it makes the exercise harder all over again; this is particularly true for me with shoulders and lat rows for some reason, I have a tendancy to increase weights and subtly compensate by slacking on form. If it's still easy but I need to move up just a bit, I picked up a pair of soft 1 1/2 pound each wrist/ankle weights at walmart for nuthin', I slip these on. They are tight enough to stay on my writs (ie, they don't ride up my arm which would change the weight load). I find holding two dumbells (say, a 12 and a 3) compromises my form cause I have to grip so tight not to drop them, so the wrist weights work well.

Christine
 
Have you tried holding the little wrist weight in your hand with the dumbell? It is easier to grip than 2 dumbells.
 
One good guideline I read about when to increase weights is the "two for two" rule. You start with a rep range (for example, 8-10 reps) and when you can perform two reps above the high end for two workouts in a row, increase the weight. So if you are workiing out to a tape, and Cathe does 12 reps, you could use a weight that allows you to do 8 reps with good form (but not 9), then continue with that weight, increasing reps when you can. When you can do the 12 reps Cathe does, increase your weight. But going from 10# to 15 # on an upperbody move is to much of a leap. You can go to 12#, perhaps, or get some platemates so you can go up in smaller increments.
 
Thanks you guys, you've given me some great ideas and I'm going to look into the platemates for my hex's and I'll be checking out those "cute little" 1.5# plates also, that sounds like a good investment for increasing upperbody weight on barbell exercises. (I'm thinking specifically for crazy 8's and triceps exercises!)

Donna

Fitness~It's a journey, not a race!
 
Donna,
I can really relate to your problem. I find I can pretty easily increase poundages in all areas other than the shoulders. Man, those suckers burn. And I am STILL stuck at 5's. I can start with 8's, but they will be a-droppin'.

I don't really have anything to add other than that, as it seems everyone has given awesome advice already, other than to compliment you on your poundages. You GO GIRL!!

Janice


http://www.picturetrail.com/thrashej
 
Donna,

Forgive me for repeating if someone else has already said this.
What works for me is doing a few workouts *like* Slow and Heavy *except* I do only 3 to 6 reps!

I go really, really heavy (how much can you lift with good form for only 3 reps?!) and take long (2 min) rests.

I do 2 to 5 sets, working with the heaviest comfortable weight possible for very few reps. Like 25 pounds for overhead presses. I'll drop to 20 on the 2nd or 3rd set. I only do as much or little as I want. I do it slow, or faster than S&H.

This makes it possible to break that plateau. I hope I wasn't too vague here. Just don't limit yourself to 8 reps, try 3 reps and heavy up. Never sacrifice form and never get too close to "failure."

Pavel Tsatsouline, a fitness writer, is where I got much of the info. Also, Scott Connelly (author of BodyRx).

-Connie
 
Thanks Connie,

I think I get so focused on completing each rep in a set that it doesn't occur to me that I can "do my own thing" within the workout itself. It's been mentioned above about going really heavy for just 2 or 3 reps, then dropping back to a lighter weight and try adding 1 or 2 more heavy reps each week until I can handle that weight, so I've got a lot of options here and I really appreciate all the ideas and info. :)

Donna

Fitness~It's a journey, not a race!
 
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