Please somebody help me help someone else

naughtoj

naughtoj

Cathlete
Hi all,

I so much need advice. My father has fallen into a very profound depression. He won't eat unless you put food in front of hime and say "EAT" and even then it is only a couple of bites. He just goes from the recliner in the living room to his bed (mostly bed) with the drapes closed all day. He hasn't showered since last Wed!!! (over a week ago!!!!!:eek: ) My sister and I were over there yesterday and suggested it because the weather was warm so he would not get cold and he blew us off. You try to talk with him and he gives one word answers or stares off into space or snaps cuz he is irritable. Not so much irritability now. There was a lot a couple of weeks ago but now it just seems like profound sadness and despair. It is so sad to watch yet I just don't know how to change it or what to say. The odds of him seeking out a therapist or AD is very slim. He already has unmedicated bi polar disorder. He couldn't care less.


In my Dad's defense, he has been battling lung ca and cancer tx for a while. HOWEVER, it hasn't been that long and he certainly is not doing as bad as he could be!! The doctor told him only 6mo to 1 yrs to live. It has almost been 6mo!! I think he really thought the chemo was going to really kill everything. I think he thought HE would be the miracle. I think he failed to research what was wrong with him. No, I KNOW. Well, anyway he isn't the miracle. He is likely a statistic. With metastatic lung cancer the prognosis is months, even with treatment. He has four brain lesions, one lung tumor, and a mass on his pancreas initially. Well, after the first round chemo, a NEW TUMOR grew in his other lung. Dissapointed with that the onc started second line tx, Hycamtin (topotecan). Made Dad very sick for a while; he even needed a blood transfusion. Well, since a couple rounds of that his stomach started to hurt where he felt he could not eat. He also had a growing pressure in his chest. Well.....last Friday he apparantly felt somewhat better, the pressure was relieved and he could eat!!! My sister said his spirits were better a bit. I think he thought he has won. Fast forward to 5pm. Doc calls. "It's back and there is more" "other organs are involved". I think he was crushed.

Now, he is more than ever acting how I previously described. To make it worse, he is MOVING!!! My brother is trying to move him (and himself) into this new house that already had furniture in it. So..we are making trips to the old house to get the furniture there to bring to the new, yard sale.....it's a mess to say the least, but necessary.

So........here is my question. How do I approach this ever so sensitively?? I want to say that I care for him, that we hate to see him like this. I REALLY REALLY want to say "you knew the statistics, what did you choose to live for". I want to cry and flail and beat on him. I mean, what did he think?? And now, because it did not go his way, he is going to waste the last month (possible) of his life. We go to see him and he does this. It is like "HELLO!!! Aren't WE what you chose to extend your time on this earth for??" He honestly would be better off right now with a big ol' hefty shot of morphine to stop his respirations. He is that miserable. How can I help him realize that he is not dead yet and in fact, he likely feels physically better now than he ever will again on this earth? I realize he has been thru a lot, but what can be done from here. It's like they said in Shawshank Redemption:

"Get busy livin' or get busy dyin'"

Which do you choose???

Thanks for any help.;)
 
Janice, I'm wondering about the locations of the brain lesions. You know, the depression could be related to those lesions. It could also be from the untreated bipolar disorder. There may not be anything you can do about it. Just BE with him and maybe see if you an get him back on his medication.

Janice, please know that you and your family will remain in my prayers. You have had an unbelieveable amount of stress in the past year. I don't know how I would fair in similar circumstances. Please keep us posted.

ETA that I was wondering if Hospice is involved? I would get a referral ASAP. They are WONDERFUL! And they will know just how to help. They will be a great support for ALL of you.

Michele
 
My good friend's mother recently passed away from liver disease. My friend feels extremely guilty because she did not force her mother to go the the hospital early on, even though her mother made it clear that she did not want to go. Her situation was quite different from your fathers - however, in both cases, these people's suffering would be a lot less if they'd accept medical treatment. If medicine can't slow or reverse the disease, it can at least make your father more comfortable.
 
Maybe his emotional and physical pain is more than you can imagine
:-( and he feels the best thing he can do for himself is to give up!

Try seeing things from his point of view. If you can, you may be able to understand why he is behaving the way he is. Then again, because of his bipolar disorder, trying to understand may be impossible. Based on how you have described him the past, he doesn't always act rationally. The more psychological and physical stress, the more irrational he may become.

I thinik the best advice is to contact a hospice in your area. They are well equipped to help you deal with your situation.
 
Janice,

Wow...I don't even know where to begin. Forgetting about your father for a minute and concentrating on you, you must be having the most difficult time in your life emotionally and physically right now. I can't even imagine what you are going through, and won't pretend as though I do. For you all I can say is keep your chin up and be there for him should he request it from you. It is important that you completely understand that there probably isn't much you can say or do to change the way he's feeling right now. Like others have stated it's hard to determine where the depression is coming from...if it's due to the brain lesions, or the untreated bipolar disorder, or just from the incredibly heavy and daunting news he seems to keep getting from his doctors. Any of those situations in and of themselves are enough to send anyone into a crazy depression wirlwhind, and it's hard to know what, if anything, can bring someone out of that.

I think the idea for hospice care is a good one. These are experienced professionals dealing with these issues every day and may be able to help your father deal with what is going on with him, but in all honesty it may not. It's important to realize that he is struggling day in and day out with his own mortality and that's a huge thing to try and wrap your brain around (as I'm sure you are more than aware as you are dealing with the same things involving your father). Not everyone who is dealing with a terminal diagnosis is going to be able to hold their head up and assume an "I'm going to fight till the end" type of mentality. This is a very difficult psychological stance to take and if he's already dealing with a mood disorder/brain chemistry imbalance it's going to be even harder for him to assume such a positive attitude when his doctors aren't really giving him anything to latch onto that's positive.

My heart is breaking for you, your father, and the rest of your family. I would be unable to think straight if I were dealing with this with my father...like I said I can't even imagine your heartache right now. Just try and keep it in the back of your head that his reacting this way is in no way a direct reflection of how he feels about you. This is his personal struggle within himself and unfortunately for right now he's chosen to try and isolate and distance himself. Try your hardest to stay positive and upbeat for him. Try and make his experiences with you as predictable, positive, and consistent as possible and maybe if he sees in you that YOU haven't given up then maybe it will act as a catalyst for him to start feeling the same way. Please take care and know that many here are thinking about you and your family during this very difficult time.

Deni
 
I'm so sorry for the situation you're going through right now. I feel like I need to tell you about the experience a good friend of my husband's had with his mother the entire last year before she passed away. A couple of years ago, Dale and his sister, who were both in their late 20's, noticed that their mother had changed a lot. She was quick-tempered with her grandchildren (something she NEVER was before), she refused to help her son out with his business (she was considered the sole proprietor of it because he had some credit issues),she forgot to pay the bills, and she refused to leave her home. Her weight went from 150 to 105 in just a little over 2 months because she refused to eat. After several months, they thought she may be showing signs of early Altzheimers, even though she was only in her early 50's. As it turns out, she had brain cancer. The leisons on her brain really caused her to act in a way that no one would have dreamed! I remember the months before the diagnosis was made, and how hard it was on her two children. She had said some very ugly things to them, and they almost cut their ties with her because she had stated that's what she wanted them to do. Even after the diagnosis, her behavior didn't improve, but at least they could justify it and see where it was coming from.

If your father's cancer has spread to his brain, then just realize that he may not be able to control all of this erratic behavior. My friends just had to end up focusing on the good memories of their mother (yes, sadly, even when she was living her last days). They also ended up keeping their small children away from her because she would say such ugly things to everyone around her, and the kids (who were 3, 5, and 7 at the time) just couldn't understand what was going on with their grandma. Oh, and one other thing. This woman, who once went to church ALL the time and did her Bible devotions everyday, ended up cussing like a SAILOR during those last days. When her kids would tell us some of the things she had said, we couldn't help but laugh a bit because we remembered her as this proper church-going lady who never said a cross word to anybody!

Sorry this is so long. I just thought it might help to mention this situation because, no matter what the doctors say, cancer of the brain CAN cause serious changes in people, and I'm not sure if there's anything you CAN do to alleviate it.

I'll keep you in my prayers,
Sarah
 
Janice,

I am so sorry for the suffering of your father and your family. My prayers are with you.

Our family went through similar times w/ my MIL who was dx w/lung cancer Sept one year and passed away the following February. Such rapidly spreading cancer is a devastating and heart wrenching experience for all the family. Please contact hospice if your family has not already.

My prayers and thoughts will remain with your father and all of your family. Remember, you can't take care of your dad if you don't take care of yourself.

{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}
 
Janice -

I just lost my mom to Liver Cancer, and a lot of what you describe is what she went through. Eating was very tough for her as she was simply not hungry and worse, the treatments made her sick to her stomach. My mom went from a size 18-20 to a size 10 in six months. She simply could not eat. Oh, I know how frustrating it is for the family - eating gives you the necessary nutrients to keep fighting, but she could not eat. She drank a lot of Ensure and Boost.

Make sure he is being medicated for any pain (my mom hesitate getting a morphine patch, until the doctor ever-so-gently pointed out that it really did not matter if mom became addicted to morphine) because some kinds of cancer can be very painful. Cancer does weird things to your body. My mom was one of the cleanest people I know, but when the cancer started advancing, she took showers less and less because she simply did not have the energy.

I think the idea of Hospice care is a fabulous one. We did end up with Hospice, but we got it on Friday and my mom passed away on Sunday. We wish we would have gotten it sooner. They have so much experience with these kinds of things and they can tell you more what to expect.

My heart goes out to you, honey. It's not easy to watch a parent go through this. Chances are if this change in him is sudden it is the cancer. If it's spreading he may be experiencing different things now. Seriously, the best thing you can do for him and yourself is to be with him. Help him when you can. If you need to talk, please feel free to PM me or email me. I wish you all the love and luck in the world! HUGS!
 
two words for you - HOSPICE CARE - and I mean that with a lot of love.


"you miss 100% of the shots you never take"


Debbie
 
Janice, I don't have any advice for you, but I will pray for you and your father. How hard life can be sometimes. Best wishes.
 
Janice, I don't have the words, the wisdom or any experience with that, but I am also sending hugs and heartfelt prayers your way. You will continue to be in my prayers from this day.

((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))

Missy
 
When my DMIL was diagnosed with cancer and a short time to live (6 months), at first we all tried to deal with it alone. Once we called Hospice, it felt like we weren't alone and there was SO MUCH support. We did not enter DH's mom in a hospice facility - they came to us! She had the familiar setting of her home (though that's changing with your father), and a nurse came every day to help with medication. They were truly a godsend.

Hugs to you and your family - you sound like a family that just is trying to do what's best for your father.
 
I'm so sorry to hear of your situation--it sounds very stressful. I just wanted to add that I agree about the hospice suggestion. It helped my mother get through the last months of her life with cancer and it helped my father deal with her death. Also, if you can, talk to your dad's doctor(s)--they may have access to resources to help your dad and the rest of your family. You can also contact the American Cancer Society--there are local chapters that may have support groups and other ideas for help and support for you. I wish you the best in this.
 
The poor man is dying. I have no idea how I would behave if I were in his shoes and I'm sure you don't either but I would just recommend being there, trying not to take it personally. My brother is also struggling with lung cancer that has metastasized to his brain in the form of 5 tumors and it is now in three of his ribs. He rides a constant emotional roller coaster. He's crabby and cantankerous and I don't like it much but I cannot possibly imagine how he must feel when I consider the overwhelming sadness, pain and fear I have about it and I'm not the one who is sick. The only thing that I have attempted to do is simply not to demand anything from him and to let him know how very much I love him and how proud I am of his courage.

I'm so, so sorry. I know how hard it is.....
 
Thank you all for your support. It means a lot.

You all have many great suggestions. Hospice is one that I am pretty set on, I just did not know when to press the issue. During Chemo I did not feel it was appropriate, you know, because in some ways it seems like "giving up". But I plan to bring it up tomorrow in the doc office if the doc does not. Atleast maybe for homecare visits.

I was able to talk with my father briefly today. For whatever reason, he has lapsed on the Fentanyl patch. He called the doc and the doc said to put another patch on (now he has two on) and take some Percocet as well. After he did that he felt somewhat better. My brother thinks he was experiencing withdrawal sx from the fentanyl. I just don't know. He felt a bitter better tho and took a shower.

Our conversation wasn't good really. He snapped at me basically saying "he doesn't feel good and the doctors don't know anything and he is tired and it gets you down sometimes" Basically he said, "this is it take it or leave it" (referring to his moping around, depressive state).

I'll let you all know how tomorrow goes, what we find out. Thank you so much!
 
I'm so sorry for all that your Dad, you, and your family are going through! It's truly a nightmare.

If I remember anything about psychology from school there are distinct stages of dying - from a psychological point of view. Now, I have to try to remember them.


1. Denial (it can't be me, the doctors must be wrong, etc.)
2. Anger (you realize the diagnosis is correct, and you're really mad at the world for it.)
3. Bargaining (Oh...God if you make me better I'll do this....., that...., etc.)
4. Depression (it seems to me that your Dad may be in this phase now)
5. Acceptance (The final phase....you prepare yourself for the inevitable and you're almost ready for it when it comes.)

I don't know if this helps or you feel this pertains at all. It may help explain your father's behavior alittle. It's a well-known phenomenon (or theory) in psychology. I happen to believe it. I've seen the stages clearly in some people and it's not so obvious in others.

Just be there for him to make the transition the best way he can. I can't imagine being in his shoes and I pray I go quickly.

I'll keep you in my thoughts.

ETA: Hospice is invaluable!!!!!
 
Just wanted to let you all know that my Dad was told there is nothing more the docs can do for him. They gave him weeks to one month. Hospice has been called in. He has been having some pains in his chest (around his heart) and the doc confirmed that the tumor is pressing on his heart. So...hopefully it won't take long and won't be as painful. Anyway, I am trying to clear the schedule and be there. Nursing school, however, is pushing on at breakneck pace and I have tons of projects and test due in the next few weeks!! Arrggh. Oh well. Thank you all for your support.

God has his reasons I guess.
 
Janice {{{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}}

My prayers are with your family. You'll be so glad you called Hospice. I can't say enough good about them.

Michele
 
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