Pet food.....TOTALLY off topic...and long

Kimenem

Kimenem

Cathlete
I was reading Chastity's post about her little dog and it got me searching the internet on back issues in Daschunds, which led me to a site that tells HORRORS about commercial pet food. Basically, it said that if we continue to feed our pets commercial pet food, they will die an agonizing death. Lovely. So I looked further and found other sites dedicated to making pets as healthy as possible by feeding them all natural or even "homemade" dog food....no, they weren't selling it. Well, one site had a "confidential" list of 9 commercial pet foods that were fine but you had to buy the program, bellive it or not, to get it. Anyway, I did find a site created by a trainer/researcher and ordered 4 Ebooks that they are going to put on CD and mail me. Other books coming included different breeds and which health problems they are prone to (what to watch for, etc), and other ways to check your pet for injuries, ilnesses that the vet may miss. I figure that even if the commercial foods aren't as bad as the one site claimed, natural food couldn't hurt right???? After losing my 2 other dogs, I'm willing to do anything to keep the babies I have now. Any thoughts on this????
 
I have done a lot of research about this subject, and I feed my dogs (and cats) a natural, homemade diet because I was shocked to find out what some Petfood Manufacturers actually put in the food.

Here is the link to a thread about this subject

http://69.0.137.118/dc/dcboard.php?..._id=379713&mesg_id=379713&listing_type=search

but feel free to email me directly, or ask if you need further information.

By the way, your post wasn't long at all. My posts tend to be LONG }(

Take care,

Carola
 
Hey Carol!

I thought I'd tell you my doggie is on what I call a 'modified' rotational diet. The man at the pet food store helped me. She gets her regular Nature's Variety dry in the AM - occasionally with some sweet potato or an egg thrown in, or some leftover people veggies (except carrots, which she doesn't like).

In the PM she gets either Bravo raw food or a can of wet food. I picked Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul brand because it was the least expensive, although I picked up a few cans of Innova just to try it.

And here's the best part - her dry food is only $.50 each day, the raw is $.60 per serving (6.4 ounces), and the canned is somewhere between $.95 - $2.89 per serving, depending on the brand I give her. The canned is by far the most expensive.

So I think I'm doing OK by her. Do you think so? I mean, it's still easy for me to do, and, I hope, better for her.

So thank you so much for your help and info (and links)!

Susan L.G.

Kimenem -

I am totally on the "natural" band wagon as much as I can be, although I don't let my dog chew on the deer bones she finds at the barn because they smell so gross, which of course makes it PRIME doggie goodness!
 
I feed my doggies organic raw food from the www.thehonestkitchen.com

I also add the Missing Link with glucosamine to the food as well. Great product.

It is amazing what it does for them... natural and close to the way they would eat naturaly in the abundant wild. It is a tad more expensive, but i buy organic for us.. so why not our dog. I also only vaccinate in puppy stage and then continue with rabies only. My vet recomends this unless traveling often. He does the same with his dogs and thinks over vaccination does serious harm as well as comercial dog foods, dog treats and chemical treated rawhides and such. Natural foods are the best imo.
 
Hey Susan!

It sounds awesome! It is wonderful that it works out well for you budgetwise as well, I know that was a concern.

I agree canned food is outrageously expensive and I like the frozen food much better, I am kind of sensitive to smells.

Actually Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul is on the Whole Dog Journal recommended list of wet/canned dog food, so I think it should be good. I have the list of recommended dog foods (wet and dry) from the Whole Dog Journal as a .pdf file. Let me know if you want me to email it to you.

The raw food works out really well for me and the dogs, it is easy to do without much prep time, no complicated cooking, preping, etc. which was a big concern for me, like most of us, I am always pressed for time

Anyway, I am excited it works out for you and your furry friend. Thanks for the update, let me know in a few months if you see any changes in your dog.

Take care,

Carola
 
I also only vaccinate in puppy stage and then continue
>with rabies only. My vet recomends this unless traveling
>often. He does the same with his dogs and thinks over
>vaccination does serious harm as well as comercial dog foods,
>dog treats and chemical treated rawhides and such. Natural
>foods are the best imo.

I do the same thing, only vaccinate the initial series for puppies and then only the rabies shots. I have had good experience with it over the years.

Do you ever run into a problem with not doing the booster shots, like at the groomer or training classes because you don't do the yearly booster shots. Just curious, because I encounter some problems with it.

Thanks,

Carola
 
You know, Cosmo was toothless from the time she was a puppy so she always got canned food, & of course I'd get it from a pet store that sold "human grade" dogfood. I swear sometimes when I was hungry & I opened a can of that food I thought "hmmmm, this smells really good........" :eek:

Anyway, it's one reason I believe she lived such a long life. Even in the last few months when she was suffering w/the arthritis I had people remark to me how great she looked for her age b/c her coat was still healthy & shiny, & she still had her spirit.
 
Hi Carola,

I have not run into any problems as i who did the training and my doggies do not need grooming.. or what they do need i do myself. Only sad part is i cannot bring them across the border when i go home to NYC. I have in-laws here that they stay with.
 
Hi Kimenem,

There are a lot more high quality dog foods available to us now than there used to be. I've been the parent of a very cancer-prone dog breed (Boxers) for several years, so I'm very interested in this topic.

I believe the Whole Dog Journal (http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/) has one of the better and most current compilations of dog food reviews, but you do have to subscribe in order to get it.

Here's another web site with info on dog food, but I don't know how up-to-date it is. http://www.dogaware.com/dogfeeding.html

My Boxer, Rascal, gets three meals a day that include Nature's Variety kibble (we rotate the variety venison, lamb, beef, etc). At breakfast and dinner he also gets some variety of Merrick canned food thrown in as well. He also gets fresh food from time-to-time in the form of yogurt, raw carrots, bananas, raw beef bones, peanut butter, whatever I happen to be eating at the time. :) I guess you could say that I'm striving to feed him as varied a diet as possible.

Also, every dog is different, and a food that might be great for one dog may not be great for another. Several years ago I had a Boxer and Boston Terrier. I decided to try feeding home cooked dog food based on Dr. Pitcairn's book "Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs and Cats" and some home cooking recipes that other Boxer owners used successfully. My Boxer did great on it, but my Boston didn't. :( So, I ended up finding a kibble and wet food combo that suited both.

ETA: After reading Laura's post, I will admit...I did taste the canned dog food...and it wasn't bad...needed salt though. :D
 
Lots of info here. I'm waiting on the Ebooks I mentioned but will probably switch to some kind of natural food. I don't know that our schedules will always allow for "homemade" food so do you think if I get some natural/organic, that would suffice? I want them to be araound as longa s possible!!!!
 
Huh, I thought I was doing good by giving my doggies California Naturals. They get a Lamb and rice blend of kibble.
I have to say that one of my friends gives her dogs organic raw food that she makes herself. I'm just not quite there yet. My dogs seem to be pretty healthy on what I'm giving them. They like it, and it's not dog chow, so I'm pretty pleased with myself for it.
I give my cats California naturals as well. They get the herring and sweet potato blend, due to one having food allergies.

Kathy
 
Kathy,

California Naturals actually is on the recommended food list of the Whole Dog Journal. So don't beat up on yourself;)

My problem is with most dog chows and commercial dog foods that is at the supermarket or most Petcos and Petsmarts. I guess my thought is that we are kidding ourselves that you can get the same quality in a $ 10 bag of dog kibble than one that has human grade ingredients at $ 30. If you are able to sell a bag of dog kibble for $ 10 something's got to give.

I believe that a good human grade ingredient canned food is good or much better nutrition than commercial dog chow. I personally, if I have a choice of canned veggies or frozen veggies for myself or my family, I will always go for frozen because the canning process depletes the nutrional value more than freezing.

The other consideration for me was that good quality canned dog food is much more expensive than the frozen food I am getting. With 4 dogs, needing 6 to 8 can per day at $ 2 to 3 each, it's just too expensive.

I don't spend much time cooking a "gourmet meal" for my dogs. I cook the grains in batches and keep them in the fridge or use Dr. Harvey's Canine Health, it cooks like oatmeal, is done in 5 to 8 minutes and just mix the thawed meat and veggies in and some vitamins, and I am done.
I did Dr. Pitcairns recipes for a while but it was too time consuming for me, so I am pretty happy with what I am doing now.

Just like LauraMax and someone else, I had a dog whose family history showed he was prone to cancer. All of his family died before the age of 7, he ended up getting cancer but he was almost 11 years and I do think his diet made a difference.

Just my 2 cents.

Carola
 
I used to make my dogs food (I'll never forget the first time I gave him a chicken thigh) but I found a very nice food from www.auntjeni.com I've been feeding it for 4 years now and so happy w/the results! My baby thrives off of it (I know he's a dog):)

He also loves carrots, grapefruit, oranges, you name it. So it works out really good....sometimes if I make a pot roast (I leave out onions) or vegetable soup, I'll give him that instead of the Aunt Jeni's!

A couple other places that sell prepared raw diets are Bravo and Oma's pride.

Isn't it amazing how many "kibble" makers are coming out with organic foods w/awesome ingredients.
 
>Lots of info here. I'm waiting on the Ebooks I mentioned but
>will probably switch to some kind of natural food. I don't
>know that our schedules will always allow for "homemade" food
>so do you think if I get some natural/organic, that would
>suffice? I want them to be araound as longa s possible!!!!

I think you need to do what you feel comfortable with. I don't spend a lot of time on the "homemade" food for my dogs. I cook the grains, put in the veggies and the meat and some vitamins or supplements, it's a few minutes and I am done. Granted, it is a little more time than opening a can of dog food or throw a cup of kibbles in the bowl, but not much more time consuming.

I do have the lists of recommended dry and canned foods from the Whole Dog Journal in a .pdf format. You can email me directly if you want me to email it to you.

Carola
 
Carola,

My STUPID internet at work is NOT cooperating and it won't let me access the direct email. However, I'm VERY interested in the list you mentioned. If you have a chance, could you email it to me at [email protected]??? (that's a zero after the 11).

Also, I think it was you who mentioned the Glucosamine supplement? Do you think that would help my Doxies at all as far as back injury prevention? If so, where do you get it and how is it given? Re: the food, would a dry food, supplemeted with eggs or chicken a few times per week be a good diet for them? One is 5yrs and the other will be 1 yr in June. Thanks SO much for all of your info and help!!!

Kim
 
Hi Kim,

I emailed you the lists as requested, hope you got it.

I think it was someone else who mentioned the Glucosamine supplement, she said she used the "Missing Link with Glucosamine", I also have that supplement, however, without the Glucosamine.

I have one dog with a little bit of a "loose" hip, at the advise of my vet I got a supplement that also contains chondroitin, so he gets "Glyco-Flex II" soft chews from Vetri-Science. They have Glyco-Flex I, II and III, # I, I believe is for prevention, II is for prevention and less severe problems and III is for more severe problems.

The best price I have found for both, the Missing Link and Glyco-Flex is www.kvvet.com.

As to supplementing the kibble with raw egg and chicken or meat, be aware that this could throw off the calcium : phosphorus ratio. Meat and eggs are fairly low in calcium content compared to its phosphorus content. So you will either need to add a calcium supplement like bonemeal, or add raw bones, chicken necks, turkey necks, etc. to your dog's diet.

Dr. Pitcairn has some good recipes for supplementing kibble with fresh meat, egg or cottage cheese, you can throw it together in a minute or less. http://www.amazon.com/Pitcairns-Com...=pd_bbs_1/102-3643553-8544965?ie=UTF8&s=books

I would rotate the foods and meats (chicken,beef, turkey, venison, etc) / eggs/ cottage cheese to offer variety and avoid nutritional deficiencies. I don't think it is rocket science and it does not have to be a totally balanced meal EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Once or twice a week I feed them canned salmon with bones (don't use raw salmon) which I mix with brown rice and veggies, that's pretty easy to prepare. They also get organic yogurt once or twice a week to substitute one meal.

Carola
 
Giving them bones scares me. This seems a little complicated right now. Hopefully, I'll get it down. What would the disadvantges be of just giving them the dry food, and maybe sometimes canned?
 
HI all,

I will apologize for this long post ahead of time. Below is a dog food rating system that I pulled off a discussion forum for Great Danes. The system basically teaches you how to read a bag of food. Then a couple of enterprising people went through and rated some of the more common brands.

I also want to say that I think the BARF diet is the best for any animal that is a carnivore, which includes dogs and cats. BARF stands for Bones and Raw Food and that's exactly what it is. Raw meat and bones. Dogs and cats are not omnivores (like people) and get no nutritional value from veggies or fruit. Since they do not have any flat teeth to grind the cell walls and get the nutrients out they serve no purpose in the diet, except if your dog(s) like them. I could go on and on about this diet and the crap-in-bag that is sold at the grocery stores....and some vets offices. But, I won't.

You will need your kibble's list of ingredients, as found on the bag (or often times their website). Please note, however, this is for ingredients ONLY.... so before feeding a pup be sure to look at the protein and fat and calcium and calories in the Guaranteed Analysis.

Start with a grade of 100:

For every listing of "by-product", subtract 15 points

For every non-specific animal source ("meat" or "poultry", meat, meal or fat) reference, subtract 10 points

If there are no specific meats or meat meals, subtract 25 points

For every grain "mill run" or non-specific grain source, or grain "middlings", subtract 10 points

If the food contains BHA, BHT, or ethoxyquin, subtract 15 points

If the same grain ingredient is used 2 or more times in the first five ingredients (i.e. "ground brown rice", "brewer’s rice", "rice flour" are all the same grain), subtract 5 points for each occurrence

If the protein sources are not (specific) meat meal and there are less than 2 meats in the top 3 ingredients, subtract 3 points

If it contains any artificial colorants, subtract 5 points

If it contains ground corn or whole grain corn, subtract 3 points (subtract 5 if corn is listed in the top 5 ingredients)

If the food contains any animal fat other than fish oil, subtract 3 points

If lamb is the only animal protein source (unless your dog is allergic to other protein sources), subtract 2 points

If it contains soy or soybeans, subtract 5 points

If it contains wheat (unless you know that your dog isn’t allergic to wheat), subtract 2 points

If it contains beef (unless you know that your dog isn’t allergic to beef), subtract 1 point

If it contains salt, subtract 3 points

If it contains corn syrup, molasses, or other added sweetener, subtract 10 points

Extra Credit:

For every different specific animal protein source (other than the first one; count "chicken" and "chicken meal" as only one protein source, but "chicken" and "turkey" as 2 different sources - do not count egg, cheese, or other similar ingredients), add 1 point

If the food contains 3 or less different mentions of grains (or other high-carb plant-based foods like potatoes), add 5 points

If any of the meat sources are organic, add 5 points (if the number 1 ingredient is organic meat, add 10 points)

If the animal sources are hormone-free and antibiotic-free, add 3 points

If the food is baked not extruded, add 5 points

If the food contains probiotics, add 3 points

If the food contains fruit or vegetables (NOT corn or other grains), add 3 points

If the vegetables have been tested for pesticides and are pesticide-free, add 1 point

If the food contains barley or oats or oatmeal, add 1 point

If it contains sunflower, hemp, flaxseed, or other polyunsaturated vegetable oils, add 3 points (add 5 if it is the #1 fat)

If the vitamin and mineral sources are chelated, add 5 points

94-100+ = A

86-93 = B

78-85 = C

70-77 = D

<70 = F


Timberwolf Organics Lamb and Venison-136 points A+
Solid Gold Bison-123 points A+
Innova-117 points A+
Eagle Pack Holistic Chicken-114 points A+
Chicken soup-113 points A+
Pedigree Adult Complete-14 points F
Ol Roy-9 points F
Iams Lamb Meal and Rice-74 points D
Eukanuba Natural Lamb and Rice-87 points B
Nutro Natural choice Lamb and Rice-85 points c
Science Diet chicken adult maintainance-45 points F
Bil-Jac select-37 points F
Canidae-119 points A+
Natural Balance Duck and Potato-114 points A+






Jeanine

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/Xenasmommy1010/foster boys and girls/MeThor.jpg

What you lacked in health your heart and soul more than made up for. RIP my good friend Thor.

www.cfgdr.org
 
Wow, that is great information Jeanine!

Kim, giving dogs raw bones sounds scary to many people. I guess, technically the dog could choke on a bone, but technically they could also choke on kibble - I am not trying to be sarcastic.

As to your question what would be the disadvantage of kibble, I can only give you my personal opinion. When we put aside the more than questionable ingredients in many petstore/supermarket and even vet offices commercial brands and for argument's sake assume it is all high quality, human grade ingredients, it still remains highly processed food. Even the high quality ingredients have to be extruded or baked at high heats to sterilize, this process does not only kill off any bacteria but also depletes or diminishes any nutrients.

Maybe this is some food (no pun intended :) ) for thought. Let's imagine someone puts together a packaged food that has all nutrients that are essential. It is marketed as a complete diet for humans. If you look at the label it contains all the recommended requirements for proteins, carbs, fats, and then add vitamins and minerals. Now you have a complete diet, that is cheaper, completely balanced with less hassle. Just need to shake it in your bowl for breakfast, lunch and diner.
Want variety, sure, just add some water, makes it's own sauce! Or put it in the mixer with water or skim milk for a great smoothie, or make a casserole by adding water, broth or milk and baking it. If it is too hard to chew, try the softer canned varieties.....

I don't know about you, but for me this concept sounds repulsive. I mean, technically, SlimFast (or even take one of those "healthy" varieties at the health food store) claims to have optimal and balanced nutrition, why don't we eat that for the rest of our lives?? I think most people would get tired of it, and would want a little more than 4 or 5 different varieties and long for a more natural diet, like a salad or fruit, or anything else.

I do believe eating highly processed foods, although they claim to be balanced and complete, the body knows there is something missing. I think it lacks "life" (can't think of any better word right now). We don't have a "genetic" program for that and we get sick and weak. Same thing, I believe is true for pets.

That's what I think the disadvantage of kibble and canned food is, however, this is my personal opinion and I am not judging anyone who feeds their pets differently, everyone needs to do what they are comfortable with.

But I am getting off my soapbox now, and I have to get going, my DH is taking me out to diner, it is our 10-year wedding anniversary today!

Carola

Take care
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Our Newsletter

Get awesome content delivered straight to your inbox.

Top