Perception of business practices

[butterflygurl]

Wow!! When I logged in I saw that my last log in date was July 15, 2009. That is suprising b/c I was once a daily visitor to the Cathe forums. I still visit other fitness forums daily; but, stopped visiting this forum b/c of the various issues that I disliked about the forum. I exercised my right to visit or not visit. Well, I have been reading a thread about this forum on another forum. ( http://forum.videofitness.com/showthread.php?t=139305) It is now 10 pages long and 100 post strong. I just had to wonder, why are these issue still not being addressed. Some of the complaints are very vaild. As a professional business person, I am well aware that you can not please everyone. However, I would certainly want to feedback from my services (good and bad). I have to wonder why are some of the business practices that are complained about not being addressed or corrected and why has management of this company not addressed those forum members who make other feel bullied and unwelcome. I believe that we all have one common goal- FITNESS. I am posting this here b/c as an attorney who depends on clients perception and word of mouth referrals, I would want to know if clients had valid concerns with my service. It is not clear that Cathe knows of these issues. I see many people who have never used Cathe being turned off by the negative posts. I think she puts out an excellent product; despite the numerous problems with customer service/feedback on pre-order questions. I also believe in coming together to mediate and conciliate to resolve concerns instead of letting them feaster. Finally, I have tough skin and could not give a good hot chocolate what strangers (and some who are familiar) say to or about me.

Here is hoping this can finally be resolved to some degree.

Yours in fitness!

Kim

 

[Havingfun]

perceptions

Hi,

Let me start by saying that this is not meant to start anything negative and is purely my opinion.

I just recently wondered why the forums were pretty much dead and then stumbled on the thread that you mentioned. I too have been put off by some of the business practices and threads, but I keep checking to see if the community will return to what it once was. Over the years, the people that participate in the forums have come and gone but eventually there is usually a nice group of people who share their comments. After reading that thread though, I must admit that if I was ever doubting my negative reaction, it was confirmed by others. Maybe this is just another example of how profit making and growth changes a company, no matter what the intent.

I still think that Cathe consistently produces great product, but I'm sorry that the experience has been tainted.

Tracy

 

[pixiesis]

I don't really understand. What are you identifying as being a problem? I'm not saying they aren't real problems, but could you be more specific? What exactly are the issues? What specifically are the problems with the CS? With the forums? With SNM? It's obvious that some people are generally disgruntled but it's unclear to me why. On that thread you linked to, they seemed to all understand what the problems were, but I don't quite get it. For example, what is the problem with Cathe's presales taking a long time? Why do we need and deserve more updates and a firm schedule? Why are we upset that the dates aren't guaranteed? I truly do not understand this.

I'm not saying that Cathe and her company can do no wrong (I and others are puzzled and upset about the Egglands Best thing, for example), I just don't understand the generalized air of criticism and dissatisfaction about these particular issues (presale, forums, CS). Thanks to anyone who can explain!

 

[LasVegasFitGirl]

WEIRD

I've never had an issue preordering any of her products. I KNOW it's going to take a long time and I'm willing to wait. I made this deal well aware of what their intentions are. And I'm not going to hound her for it because she does give periodic updates. If there's nothing new, what's to update. They said the fall, it just turned fall.

What's great is some time in the future, I'm going to get a great product that's already paid for.

As for bad customer service, if it you're so bothered by it, why don't you address the issue with SNM at the time of the occurrence rather than slamming them on forums.

 

[FiddleFit]

If your attempt is to alert Cathe and SNM about these issues, and to "reconciliate", etc., why did you post this link in the OD forums?! All this post will do is create a hornet's nest and get people all riled up, either defending Cathe/SNM, or joining in on the bashing. There's nothing that any of us can do among ourselves to change the "problems" mentioned. So, why are you bringing it up? Get real!

The reasons the forums have quieted down is because we now have a LOT of forums! People have sorted themselves into smaller check in groups, or started a private group. If one was inclined to start reading alllll the forums and discussions everyday, you'd still find plenty of activity.

I'm not weighing in about whether the problems discussed are legitimate or otherwise. My point is that this is the wrong place to post this discussion. If you were truly concerned, you'd be bringing it to Cathe's attention directly.

Sandra

 

[Miss Lee]

If your attempt is to alert Cathe and SNM about these issues, and to "reconciliate", etc., why did you post this link in the OD forums?! All this post will do is create a hornet's nest and get people all riled up, either defending Cathe/SNM, or joining in on the bashing. There's nothing that any of us can do among ourselves to change the "problems" mentioned. So, why are you bringing it up? Get real!

The reasons the forums have quieted down is because we now have a LOT of forums! People have sorted themselves into smaller check in groups, or started a private group. If one was inclined to start reading alllll the forums and discussions everyday, you'd still find plenty of activity.

I'm not weighing in about whether the problems discussed are legitimate or otherwise. My point is that this is the wrong place to post this discussion. If you were truly concerned, you'd be bringing it to Cathe's attention directly.

Sandra

Sandra took the words right out of my mouth . I'm not saying you don't have a legitimate gripe -- I don't know if you do or if you don't -- I'm just saying that it's best to contact Cathe or SNM directly with your concerns. Frankly, posting something of this nature on the OD forum makes me dubious of your intent.

 

[fit_fairy]

Honestly, it's threads like these that have me not coming here much anymore I am perfectly happy with my pre-order and how it's being handled. I just don't care for the discourse that exists here now.

 

[morningstar]

• These forums exist because Cathe gave us a place to talk to each other, ask questions and get support (I'm not using Cathe's DVDs much right at the moment in my rotation, and I'm still here all the time)
• Cathe actually talks to us through these forums, answering our questions personally
• The customer service is freakin' awesome - anytime I have had any issue, they bent over backwards to make it right
• There is no one else out there - NO ONE - with the quality of product that Cathe consistently puts out year after year
• Cathe's company continues to grow, expand and diversify, all signs of a healthy company that will survive these harsh economic times
• All forums everywhere have a natural ebb and flow to them
• There is less nastiness here than any other forum I have visited
• I consider many of the people here my friends, and some I value as much as people I have met in person
• Ain't no one have to order something on a presale - it is a privilege that Cathe offers presales at a reduced price, when the vast majority of all products of any kind are not available through a presale.

 

[teddy16410]

Honestly, it's threads like these that have me not coming here much anymore I am perfectly happy with my pre-order and how it's being handled. I just don't care for the discourse that exists here now.

DITTO!
May I add my opinion as a business owner as well. As long as you are in a people/product business there will be complaints. I appreciate as an owner critique of my business practices, customer service etc. What I appreciate about how my customers give me feedback is the way in which they do it!

I don't personally believe that public forums are the place where you file a legitimate complaint - thats what customer service emails/phones #s are for.

My feeling is, and remains after reading this thread, that people who want to stir up hornets nests post complaints on public forums- people who care about helping a business grow stronger settle individual issues privately.

I have experienced customer service that is nothing less than outstanding for several years from SNM. I have preordered every DVD put out in that time and understood (perhaps because I read what SNM said and actually believed it!) that there are absolutely no guarantees about time & updates. My first preorder was the 2006 series when Cathe was injured and the delay was quite long- never once did I perceive that to be poor customer service. I also understand my responsibility when I place the preorder - I also understand my right to cancel it. What I dont believe is my right is to dictate how SNM handles their pre-sales.

The tone of some of the threads do get quite nasty indeed...So I acknowledge that it is my right to not read those threads. It is not my right to say they should be shut down.

 

[lori254]

Just my opinion -- I don't expect everyone to agree with me: I'm happy that I have the choice to preorder or not. The workouts will still be available to those of us who do not preorder. So I'm not really sure what the issue is, as we are not being told that if we don't preorder then we cannot get the DVD's.
Also my opinion -- I can choose to bypass 'negative' posts. The world is full of people with differing opinions and different methods of expressing those opinions (thank heavens we have the freedom in our countries to express different points of view). A lot can get lost in the writing of those opinions, and sometimes a tone can come across as harsh or disrespectful when it was not meant to.
Thanks everyone

 

[Aquajock]

Count me in as another who is completely satisfied with how Cathe's business is operated, as it directly affects me. In fact, I'm in a fair amount of awe that Cathe has been able to build such a business, and create such a brand, in an industry that is overrun with cutthroat competitors cum mediocre producers, and I totally respect Cathe's insistence on marching to her own drummer and building her own brand, rather than succumbing to said mediocrity.

It's said in Hollywood that only hits get sued, not failures. I think there are parallels to Cathe's business and industry: only successes get slammed, not the lame-asses that lurk on the fringes. I think as well that Cathe has demonstrated an enormous amount of class in NOT allowing herself become ensnared by the troll contingent; she continues to put herself out there for us in the studio and on the forums, and allows even the trolls to have their say.

Cathe and Chris have forgotten more than we can ever know about building and growing a successful home-exercise video / DVD production business. They certainly need no help from me, or from others who have no direct experience in the field.

A-Jock

 

[upnorthchick]

If your attempt is to alert Cathe and SNM about these issues, and to "reconciliate", etc., why did you post this link in the OD forums?! All this post will do is create a hornet's nest and get people all riled up, either defending Cathe/SNM, or joining in on the bashing. There's nothing that any of us can do among ourselves to change the "problems" mentioned. So, why are you bringing it up? Get real!

The reasons the forums have quieted down is because we now have a LOT of forums! People have sorted themselves into smaller check in groups, or started a private group. If one was inclined to start reading alllll the forums and discussions everyday, you'd still find plenty of activity.

I'm not weighing in about whether the problems discussed are legitimate or otherwise. My point is that this is the wrong place to post this discussion. If you were truly concerned, you'd be bringing it to Cathe's attention directly.

Sandra

DITTO DITTO DITTO!! Couldn't have said it better myself.

Butterflygurl: If you have a concern or gripe you should address it directly with SNM/Cathe. No need to post passive aggressively to a forum full of people that aren't able to fix any perceived problem or problems you have had or are having with SNM/Cathe.

 

[aproudfit]

Just my opinion -- I don't expect everyone to agree with me: I'm happy that I have the choice to preorder or not. The workouts will still be available to those of us who do not preorder. So I'm not really sure what the issue is, as we are not being told that if we don't preorder then we cannot get the DVD's.

ITA!!

I am 100% thrilled that Cathe's business model lets me get discounts for pre-ordering! I just dont get all this issue with getting a discount and not needing a fixed ship date. I dont know anyone else that gives the updates and information that Cathe does. Of course I get anxious and excited and want these workouts in my hands NOW - BUT I know they will be worth it when they are ready and I am happy to wait!

DONT PREORDER IF YOU DONT WANT TO WAIT!!!! Problem solved!!!!

I am really baffled at how this is a bad business decision. Personally I think that giving loyal customers a discount for pre-orders is a pretty GREAT busniess decision. I have been preordering since the Intensity series and my wallet thanks me for it. I saved over $100 on STS!!!!!!!! Wow - I think that is a pretty great thing to do to your loyal customers!!!

 

[goldenpath]

Why do we need and deserve more updates and a firm schedule?

Because she had our money!!!

I have ordered her pre-sales before and I expected a long wait but I also expected more updates (like her other presales). I think the updates this time around have been few. I am speculating but I am thinking that is because she is so busy in other areas of her business (eggland best, Daytona, etc.).

 

[aproudfit]

Because she had our money!!!

The point is she has our money willingly under the condition that we dont have a fixed time schedule - and so far we have - they said Fall, and look - it's fall and their filming!! They have said over and over that they should be done in the Fall. Fall doesnt end until December. So I dont understand the issues with this presale at all.

Oh - and if you follow her on Facebook - she has given updates constantly - I think we knew almost everytime the did rehersals and planning. So she might not put it all here everytime- but she did a ton of little updates on FB and Twitter.

 

[pixiesis]

Because she had our money!!!

I have ordered her pre-sales before and I expected a long wait but I also expected more updates (like her other presales). I think the updates this time around have been few. I am speculating but I am thinking that is because she is so busy in other areas of her business (eggland best, Daytona, etc.).

Oh - and if you follow her on Facebook - she has given updates constantly - I think we knew almost everytime the did rehersals and planning. So she might not put it all here everytime- but she did a ton of little updates on FB and Twitter.

This is what I mean! When I said why do we need more updates, I was assuming that everyone knew that she gives lots and lots of updates and that things are moving along just fine. Do we need updates multiple times a day? For me, once every few weeks is more than sufficient, so she more than meets my expectations. Then again, if she didn't, I wouldn't feel entitled to criticize her either over this. It's her business after all...

And I *know* she has our money. She didn't force me to give her my money! She gave me the opportunity to get an awesome deal on an awesome product, in exchange for a little bit of patience. I don't feel like there's any mistreatment there or bad business practices there. I'm still confused about those who do feel this way.

 

[EricaH]

The point is she has our money willingly under the condition that we dont have a fixed time schedule - and so far we have - they said Fall, and look - it's fall and their filming!.

That's not entirely true. We were told that the DVDs would be done in fall, but filming, editing and authoring would be done before the eggland tour this weekend. Since filming just started, that isn't going to happen. It would be nice to get updates on why the project has been pushed back.

Erica

 

[goldenpath]

Why do we need and deserve more updates and a firm schedule?

You asked the question and I gave you my answer. The reason I feel that I need and deserve updates is because she has my money. You can agree or disagree but that is my take on it.

The point is she has our money willingly under the condition that we dont have a fixed time schedule - and so far we have - they said Fall, and look - it's fall and their filming!! They have said over and over that they should be done in the Fall. Fall doesnt end until December. So I dont understand the issues with this presale at all.

Oh - and if you follow her on Facebook - she has given updates constantly - I think we knew almost everytime the did rehersals and planning. So she might not put it all here everytime- but she did a ton of little updates on FB and Twitter.

I never said that she took my money by force. I willingly gave it to her but I do expect updates. I was just answering a question that was asked. I never said that she was behind schedule (even though I do remember seeing a September date.. and September has come and gone - However, I am not holding her to it). I just said that there has not been much updates.

And just because she offers facebook and twitter, it should not be expected that everyone is going to add her. She is not my friend, nor my family member but a fitness instructor who I purchase DVD's from and therefore I choose not to add her. I would expect that her updates would be on the forum as they have in the past.

Do we need updates multiple times a day? For me, once every few weeks is more than sufficient, so she more than meets my expectations. Then again, if she didn't, I wouldn't feel entitled to criticize her either over this. It's her business after all...

I never said that I needed updates multiple times a day. There has been weeks where there were no updates.. In fact, we never knew when filming was taking place up until last weekend. I was simply comparing last presale updates with the current one.

 

[aproudfit]

That's not entirely true. We were told that the DVDs would be done in fall, but filming, editing and authoring would be done before the eggland tour this weekend. Since filming just started, that isn't going to happen. It would be nice to get updates on why the project has been pushed back.

Erica

There was never a post from SNM saying it would be done and edited by the tour. There was only one post where SNM was explaining that the post production time on these DVD's would be no where near the time it took for STS weights and gave an example that it was a possibility that the turnaround will be much quicker. But they never said before the tour. They have maintained all along that they fully expect them to be done in the Fall like originally stated. And the fall lasts until December. They are fully on schedule.

 

[EricaH]

There was never a post from SNM saying it would be done and edited by the tour. There was only one post where SNM was explaining that the post production time on these DVD's would be no where near the time it took for STS weights and gave an example that it was a possibility that the turnaround will be much quicker. But they never said before the tour. They have maintained all along that they fully expect them to be done in the Fall like originally stated. And the fall lasts until December. They are fully on schedule.

Actually, there was a post by Chris in a thread in June saying that they planned on having the workouts filmed, edited and authored by the tour and we may even have our DVDs by then. Just because you didn't see it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. If we were given updates instead of having to find information in random threads, then you would have seen this information months ago.

Erica