OMG - please help w/ my 3rd grader

L Sass

L Sass

Cathlete
Ugh. It's killing me to write this, but I need your input. My 3rd grade daughter - my oldest of 3 - cheated on a spelling test yesterday. We are devastated. Now she did have a lot going on last week, and she struggles academically, but we always work with her and try to boost her confidence and her self esteem, letting her know she CAN do anything she works hard at. Blah blah blah.

So we are devising the consequences and came up with this. I need some input please - on target? Too severe? Not severe enough? Please help.

1. She will write her teacher a letter of apology this weekend.
2. Today our whole family is going to buy trick-or-treat costumes for the kids - except for DD. There will be no trick-or-treat for her this year. She will not go out on the 31st, and she will not participate in the school events, but rather join the other kids who do not acknowledge it in the library.

Lorrie

www.picturetrail.com/lsass
 
I have a dd in 3 grade, she struggles in school as well. We just found out she has dyslexia. Although, she had never been caught cheating in at test I can relate. I kinda think taking away Halloween is a little too much especially since it comes once a year.
The letter is great. Maybe no T.V or computer or something.
Did she say why she did it? I'm sure she's a good kid who just had alittle weakness.
 
If this is a first offense, I agree that taking away Hallowe'en might be too severe. I'm sure you've sat and talked with her about why she did it, and maybe you can talk together about what SHE thinks a suitable punishment would be?
 
Hi Lorrie,

I'm sorry to hear you and your dd are having a difficult time. Cheating is cheating, however what were the circumstances surrounding it again??? Did she for example, peek over at someone elses paper, or was it something more severe like getting a copy of the teachers answers and copying them down? I feel the punishment should fit the crime, figuratively speaking. Being a 3rd grader probably makes her around 8-9 years old. This is a difficult age to start with. They are still learning boundaries.

I definately feel she should write the teacher a letter, but I also feel that you should arrange to talk to the teacher after school and see if you can't come up with something more appropriate geared toward the learning environment. As an elementary teacher myself, it will most doubtedly make the learning process for your dd worse in the classroom, if she is anxious about her punishment. Three weeks from now is a long time for someone so young to have to anticipate a punishment. On the other hand, you are her parent and know her best. Maybe her teacher has an idea. I have had different students "cheat" on occassion and have found an effective preventive measure is too have them stay with me after school for whatever time I feel is appropriate. They also lose their recess time. It is very effective at that age.

Hope this helps. By the way, I'm in Geneva, Oh. I guess we're neighbors;) I hope everything works out alright. Take care.

Carrie

http://www.3fatchicks.net/img/tulip-bar/bee01/lb/215/145/185/.png
 
Ok, well, let's start from the beginning. Why did she cheat? Is she afraid to bring home an 80 or even fail because she doesn't want to disappoint Mommy and Daddy? Let her know that you'd rather have her fail the spelling test than cheat just to satisfy you and your husband.

She's only 8. She made a mistake. I remember when I cheated on a math test once in 7th grade--. I was so sick to my stomach with guilt (literally--I was very sick) that I eventually went to my father that night and told him. He said ok, well, you need to go to your teacher tomorrow and tell her. He went with me. I have a feeling your daughter is punishing herself for this more than you and your husband ever could. Little kids these days have so many pressures and sometimes they make mistakes like this. I would say, DO NOT have her write a letter to her teacher--have her TELL her teacher and apologize face to face and let the teacher deal with the consequences. Maybe she'll get a zero for the spelling test.

Also, children need immediate consequences. Halloween is what, three weeks away? Do not punish her for three weeks for a mistake she made. I can pretty much guarantee that she'll be punishing herself for just as long--she doesn't need you to take away a holiday that she looks forward to all year. Now, if Halloween were tomorrow, that may be a different story. If she had a birthday party to go to tomorrow, then maybe you could say, "you're not going to the birthday party tomorrow". But 3 weeks from now? That could actually do more damage than you think.

Don't be so devestated. It's a small mistake in the scheme of things. She's so little and probably felt so overwhelmed and scared and didn't want to disappoint you. Make it clear that you will not tolerate this behavior and if it were to ever happen again, there will be severe consequences. But let her learn from this mistake. And please don't punish her for the rest of the month.

Allison
 
I have a DD who struggles. She is 14. Last spring in her government class she chose not to study or do homework the first 4 weeks of a 9 week course. I happen to find out because I emailed the teacher to find out when the constitution was and he told me she was failing the class.

She was 14, she made a bad choice, so we grounded her until the end of school. But you know what the worse punishment was? I made her come in to meet the teacher before school with me to explain her actions and to devise a plan of attack so that she would pass the constitution test. She hated that worse than anything.

So maybe taking away Halloween is too severe, but sitting face to face and figuring out why she did it solves two things. She will hate doing it, so may not cheat again, and you may find out what motivated her to do it and you and she and the teacher will have better communication going forward.

BTW, DD got the highest grade in the class on that constitution test. She worked 2 hours a night on the work to get caught up.
Her teacher signed her year book...Nice save on the government class....}(
 
Thanks all. We do take away TV or computer when there are "attitude issues" that get out of hand, but since this is more serious we thought the consequences should be more serious.

Yes, she was feeling very guilty when she came home yesterday with a "behavior log" sheet. I knew about it because the teacher had e-mailed me already, but I didn't look at the log. Rather - I made her TELL me what had happened. How did she cheat? The kids stand notebooks up around their papers to create "offices" so straying eyes cannot peer. She put her spelling words against the "office notebook" in front of her (points to her for ingenuity?) When confronted by the teacher, she said she had too busy of a week and didn't get to study enough. When confronted by me, she said it was an accident that her words were on front of her. Yes, I know that's the guilt and having been caught, but it's also making up a story to try to justify a wrong.

I have e-mailed the teacher to ask her input on the punishment. Thanks for all of your thoughts - I'll let you know what the teacher thinks.

Lorrie

www.picturetrail.com/lsass
 
Hi Lorrie,

I agree with what the others have posted. Taking away Halloween is absolutely too severe for an 8 year old. It's a public shaming that she is in no way equipped to handle at her age. Other kids will ask WHY she can't go--then the word gets around that she's a cheater. Trust me, kids talk. Every test she takes after that will be scrutinized by her peers. (Why did she get an A--did she cheat again??) Kids can be extremely cruel and arbitrary.

Also, if you come down too hard on her, the lesson she may "learn" is not to tell you when she does something wrong. Have her talk to her teacher and let her/him decide the appropriate action.

Finally, 3rd grade and middle school are the most common times for learning disabilities to be discovered because curriculum changes force more independent work. Keep your eye on her for potential learning issues. Since she's struggling academically, there may be more the story, as someone else suggested. Good luck!

Jonahnah
Chocolate IS the answer, regardless of the question.
 
You've gotten some excellent advice. I'm not a parent but as a child I did cheat...a number of times. It's something I not proud to admit, even as an adult. For me it was really self-esteem. I wasn't a good student. I didn't have parents that pushed me but I did want to feel stupid either. I was never caught and apparently I wasn't really good at cheating because my grades didn't get any better.

If I had to apologize in person to the teacher I would have been horrified. Yes, missing Halloween would have been tough but the teacher thing would have been worse.

Ok...I feel better for getting this off my chest.

Good Luck!!
 
When confronted by me, she said it was an
>accident that her words were on front of her. Yes, I know
>that's the guilt and having been caught, but it's also making
>up a story to try to justify a wrong.

At the risk of sounding like a total dilinquent and horrible person, I would have said the same thing to my Mom. Getting caught in the act and being confronted about it (especially by Mom or Dad) is one of the scariest things that can happen to a child.


Allison
 
Without reading anyone's replies, I wanted to voice my opinion. I don't think the "punishment" fits the "crime." I know I have posted about this before, but for everything a child does, it should be followed by NATURAL and LOGICAL consequences. So, a natural and logical consequence would be failure of her test. You could also tie another consequence (besides what the school has set for her) but not going trick-or-treating is NOT a logical consequence. It's not relatable to what she did. Research has shown that consequnces are much more meaningful when they are natural and logical. You can do a Google search on "natural and logical consequences" and you will find TONS of information. Also, Halloween is way too far away for it to have any real bearing on the behavior she has already exhibited. The consequnce needs to be as immediate as possible.

I think the letter of apology is a great idea.

Also, you really need to get to the root of the behavior. Why did she feel she needed to cheat? Does she feel pressure to be perfect? Did she not have enough time to prepare? Is she trying to cover up a significant learning problem?

Just my opinion. I do have experience in working with children as I am a school psychologist, although *disclaimer* I am not giving any professional advice as I have not seen your child and am not treating her or you (sad, but I feel the need to put that in these types of posts!).

Good luck!
 
{{{{{Lorrie}}}}}

I know this much, you're one of the best and most conscientious parents I've ever known, and you know what kind of punishment your DD will respond to. I haven't read any of the other responses, but I don't think your punishment sounds too harsh at all. IMHO kids get away with so much these days and are rarely made to suffer the consequences for their actions. I don't think missing out on Halloween is going to damage her self esteem, but it make make her think twice about cheating and then lying about it . You're a FANTASTIC parent, so trust your own good judgment -- you have an excellent track record in this area;)
 
Hi Lorrie.
I'm so sorry you are going through this. I have an 8 year old who struggles in math and we worry about her. I have to tell you though, her punishments in school for not finishing work is to take away recess. She is devastated whenever it happens. She does, however, work harder at getting her work done and studying more at home. You are her mother and you know what is best for your child. I wish you luck with your DD and your decision :)
 
>Without reading anyone's replies, I wanted to voice my
>opinion. I don't think the "punishment" fits the "crime." I
>know I have posted about this before, but for everything a
>child does, it should be followed by NATURAL and LOGICAL
>consequences. So, a natural and logical consequence would be
>failure of her test. You could also tie another consequence
>(besides what the school has set for her) but not going
>trick-or-treating is NOT a logical consequence. It's not
>relatable to what she did. Research has shown that
>consequnces are much more meaningful when they are natural and
>logical. You can do a Google search on "natural and logical
>consequences" and you will find TONS of information. Also,
>Halloween is way too far away for it to have any real bearing
>on the behavior she has already exhibited. The consequnce
>needs to be as immediate as possible.
>


Thanks Lorie - I will look into that. We have had her tested for LD, etc and everything came back normal. We know she is going to struggle and always praise her not only when she does well, but also when she doesn't if she has "tried her best" - that's all we ever ask that she try. We let her know different kids are different - not better not worse, but trying is what really matters in everything we do.

Funny - both the teacher and I told her that we would rather she get every single word wrong (and she KNEW these words cold when we reviewed yesterday morning, that's why the issue of WHY she did it has me stumped) than cheat. Yes, she is hurting inside, and it kills me to see it happening to her. Thanks so much to all of you for the advice.

Lorrie

www.picturetrail.com/lsass
 
Awww Lorrie! I can feel your hurt! I see you have gotten some great advice. I agree that waiting til Halloween to punish her might be a bit harsh. If it happened the day before Halloween maybe then it would be more appropriate??? I kind of feel like grounding her NOW from TV/outside events/friends over for the next week and so forth would be more suitable but, you are the Mom and know your child. I am certain she has learned a BIG lesson already! If you still feel like you want to keep your initial idea, I would not think bad of you at all. I think the apology letter is a great idea along with a face-to-face apology. Good Luck and thinking of you. You are a fantastic Mommy. I KNOW!:)


http://www.PictureTrail.com/gid8692709


Your-Friend-In-Fitness, DebbieH (AKA "Den Mother Debbie") http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/aktion/action-smiley-066.gif[/img] If You Get The Choice To Sit It Out Or Dance, I Hope You DANCE!
 
Lorrie,

Sounds like she is exhibiting some perfectionistic tendencies if she knew the words but still cheated to assure she would get them correct. Maybe have a discussion about being "good enough" as opposed to perfect as long as she has tried her best.

I would talk to her again and, if you decided to change her punishment, explain why and ask her to help you figure out an appropritate consequence. I like to use consequence as opposed to punishment and ALWAYS stress the child's responsibility for their actions and behaviors and that all actions have consequences (some positive, some negative).

Definitely look up information on natural and logical consequences. It just makes so much sense.
 
Hi again:) I also wanted to add that sometimes on rare occassions, it's not the children at all, it can be the teachers. Sometimes the teachers can make the children extremely anxious and nervous. I have seen my share of ineffective teachers to say the least. Not that this is the case, but it's always a possibility.

Also, it could be something as simple as learning tools for testing. In other words, maybe your dd just doesn't do well under testing conditions. I never did well testing, even though I new the material backwards and forwards.

Take care,
Carrie :)

http://www.3fatchicks.net/img/tulip-bar/bee01/lb/215/145/185/.png
 
I also wanted to post the idea of test anxiety as a possible reason why she cheated. Since she knew the material cold, maybe tests make her "blank" out. It's not an excuse to cheat, but she may not be able to explain in a mature way that she felt anxious. Just my two cents. I have a third grade DS, so I can relate to your worries. It is important to nip a bad behavior in the bud. I caught my DS saying "fricking", and "Ass" the other day and was pretty upset. He's my oldest, so I have no past experience dealing with bad language.

Sally
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Our Newsletter

Get awesome content delivered straight to your inbox.

Top