OMG - please help w/ my 3rd grader

One other thing just came to mind. Kids at this age can be very cruel. Is she getting teased by other kids for her grades? There is a boy in our neighborhood who is "behind" in class and he gets teased pretty relentlessly by a another boy in the neighborhood. It has gotten so bad his parents don't let him come out to play anymore because it's so stressful. I hope that's not the case, but you may want to investigate that angle. Good luck!

Sally
 
>>Without reading anyone's replies, I wanted to voice my
>>opinion. I don't think the "punishment" fits the "crime."
>I
>>know I have posted about this before, but for everything a
>>child does, it should be followed by NATURAL and LOGICAL
>>consequences. So, a natural and logical consequence would
>be
>>failure of her test. You could also tie another consequence
>>(besides what the school has set for her) but not going
>>trick-or-treating is NOT a logical consequence. It's not
>>relatable to what she did. Research has shown that
>>consequnces are much more meaningful when they are natural
>and
>>logical. You can do a Google search on "natural and logical
>>consequences" and you will find TONS of information. Also,
>>Halloween is way too far away for it to have any real
>bearing
>>on the behavior she has already exhibited. The consequnce
>>needs to be as immediate as possible.
>>
>
>
>Thanks Lorie - I will look into that. We have had her tested
>for LD, etc and everything came back normal. We know she is
>going to struggle and always praise her not only when she does
>well, but also when she doesn't if she has "tried her best" -
>that's all we ever ask that she try. We let her know
>different kids are different - not better not worse, but
>trying is what really matters in everything we do.
>
>Funny - both the teacher and I told her that we would rather
>she get every single word wrong (and she KNEW these words cold
>when we reviewed yesterday morning, that's why the issue of
>WHY she did it has me stumped) than cheat. Yes, she is
>hurting inside, and it kills me to see it happening to her.
>Thanks so much to all of you for the advice.
>
>Lorrie
>
>www.picturetrail.com/lsass

Just so you know, the school tested my DD in 5th grade and found no LD. We had her privately tested in 7th grade and she does have a LD that affects Math and Science and her IQ is actually gifted. So if the testing seems wrong, it may be wrong. The $ we spent on outside testing helped a lot with how to help her and helped understand why sequencing in Math is so hard, or puzzles, different things like that never made sense to us. Now we know to work around things in a different manner. Her Freshman year she is getting all A's except Science and that is a high C. She has almost flunked Science in middle school, so big change.
 
I don't see the relationship to not getting a costume, being alienated from her friends even more, and cheating.

I haven't read through all your replies. And, it might be a tad bit late to reply.

If it were me, I would focus more on correction/discipline and natural consequences rather than punishment.

Spelling can be tough! My daughter was the WORST speller at the start of third grade. I tested her and she scored at 2nd grade, 2nd month. Her word lists consisted of "word families", words with similar endings (make, bake, cake). All she had to do was memorize her spelling word endings for the test. But, when it came to actual writing, where she would have to recall those words she had previously learned, she always spelled them incorrectly. It wasn't until I changed curriculums that her spelling took off by leaps and bounds. After a couple of months with the new program, she tested at a 4 year, 4 month grade level.

Unlike you, I can change curriculums. But, you can ask the teacher what you can do to help her learn her spelling words. You could even buy phonogram cards and spelling rules and teach her a different way of spelling. Or go to the library and check out The Writing Road to Reading to help give her additional tools for spelling.

As for the cheating, I look at it the same as lying in my home. We talk about the natural consequences for lying. Naturally, everyone who knows what she did will not be able to trust her. Her peers might consider her not as smart. As a parent, you can't fully trust her either. I would have her win back the trust. I would take away some of free time and make her devote that time to studying. I think writing a letter to her teacher is a great idea. Maybe, you could have her incorporate some of her spelling words in the letter. LOL Just joking!

We do other things because we are Christian. (If my girls went to school, they'd be the ones in the library anyway.LOL) This is just some ideas of what I would do.

Wendy
 
Lorrie,

Even good kids make bad choices sometimes despite their parents' best efforts. Try not to take this incident so hard. It's a good learning opportunity for DD.

I agree with the concept of natural and logical consequences. Failing the test and writing a letter of apology to the teacher are consequence enough. I imagine she feels quite ashamed for having let down both you & DH and the teacher and for jeopardizing your trust.

But taking away Halloween would not be appropriate, IMO.

One other natural consequence: I would be more on top of her HW and upcoming tests and make sure that I was helping her prepare and study. You sound like the kind of parent who is already involved and supportive, but sometimes providing even MORE parental oversight and guidance is necessary.

[font face="heather" font color=brick red size=+2]~Cathy [/font face] http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/wavesmile.gif
"Out on the roads there is fitness and self-discovery and the persons we were destined to be." -George Sheehan
 
Lorrie-

I also have a 3rd grader (my oldest) and can empathize. I just wanted to tell you that I'm so touched and encouraged to see a parent involved, concerned, and devoted to bringing up a child with good character. It's so easy to feel overwhelmed by the pressure of figuring out the "right" thing in parenting and I want you to know I think you're doing a great job. You obviously love her completely and you know the importance of being the authority in the household.

I, too, think the Halloween punishment may be too delayed to have the effect you want--by the time it comes around you're probably going to hate enforcing it. I think having her apologize to the teacher in person and having some sort of agreement there would be horrifying to her and accomplish what you want. You're attitude of love for her and reassurance of your love will comfort her as she goes through the punishment, but the consequences will hopefully teach her a life lesson that she will respect you for enforcing.

I know how I would feel if it were my son in this situation and I would be struggling with feeling like this was a failure on my part more than anything--but that's wrong thinking. Don't beat yourself up. Think of how proud you'll be of her when she gets through this.

Kelly
 
HI Lorrie-
I haven't posted in a long time -- have had some trouble keeping up with my "activities of daily living" and being a regular poster....

But I lurked today (I'm coming clean...) and saw your post and.

I just wanted to add ((( hugs))) to you. I know how crappy it feels when our kids act below our expectations.

You've gotten great advice from everyone. Everyone on these forums is so great. What an amazing group of people!!! It's really nice you can post a family problem and get such good feedback from people.

I just want to add that it's really great that you and your daughter can talk about this. Keeping lines of communication open is so important.

Whatever way you handle this (I'm sure you'll do what's right for you and your kids. You are a great mom!) it needs to be in a way to keep your daughter feeling like she can come back to you to share her problems in the future.

My son started high school this year and it's so important to keep talking .to each other even if kids say stuff that's upsetting...Lying when you're a teen is much worse than in 3rd grade. I bet she will figure this out and so will you. But emphasizing that the two of you have trust and can work on things together in way that will help her be the best person she can be is so important.


Learning from mistakes, even making them a few more times, is what's most important and that she has a loving mom to share it with....that's as perfect as it gets..

:)
Barb
 
oops.

I have to say one more thing. (See, I just can't shut up...) to explain why I brought up the high school example.


Last year, when my DS was in 8th grade, there was a girl who had a boyfriend. Everyone knew. I even knew and I'm not particularly in the parent gossip loop. Well as months passed, it became clear this girl's parents didn't know. They had no clue and they are involved, caring, smart, hip parents. This girl didn't share -- and it all blew up and one thing led to another and this girl was punished by her parents by not being allowed to go on the class Washington DC trip. (analagous agewise to not being able to trick or treat?)

I understand their hurt & pain and it was a big mistake that the girl didn't tell them. They were definitely humiliated in a way.

But responding back to the daughter with the public humiliation part was a bummer for all the kids, not just their daughter. It was weird for all the kids to witness this public punishment. It has labelled this girl as a "problem" and I don't really know that she is a problem in the way she is being viewed by the parents..

All of my son's friends felt bad for this girl -- and since 8th grade, there have been a few more incidents, all met with this semi-public punishment. The girl is kept from participating..as the method of punishment because "lying" is viewed as a serious offense.

So I think that lying at a young age serioius. But at a young age, teaching how to be truthful, especially to your parents and adults who care for you might be the more positive way to approach it all....

Why is truthfulness an important family value vs. approaching it as why is lying not something we do.

:)

Barb
 
You all have given me such great advice. I guess I should add one twist that may or may not make a difference in the line of advice.

My DD is very social, and taking away recess with her friends would definitely be public and social humiliation for her. But we live in a very rural area - in the 6+ years we've lived here we have never had so much as one trick-or-treater. So we take our kids to another community in a subdivision where they can cover a lot of ground safely. But my kids don't know anybody in that subdivision and it's just our family that goes - so DD's friends would never know. On the school party end, there are many parents whose children do not do Halloween activities, so these children go into the library for some other group activities and nobody even asks why they go. So I guess our original thought was that consequence (and yes, we always use that term, not the punishment term) of losing trick-or-treat would still make an impact, but not be as humiliating for her as not going out to recesss and having all of her friends ask or know why. But I do understand the point about the time lag. Thank you again for ALL of your input! I really appreciate it.

Lorrie

www.picturetrail.com/lsass
 
Lorrie, I think you and your DD are going to be fine, no matter what you decide. It is clear that you care, and she is a good kid. Do what you feel as a parent is best and go from there.
 
Allison, the perfect response, said everything I was thinking.

The removal of Halloween is way too severe. Having to apologize to her teacher, in person, and admit she did wrong is all that is required. No further punishment is needed. Why are we so keen to punish our kids anyway, rather than look for reasons why they screw up when they do? As Allison said, she's a good kid and probably has punished herself inside her head enough already. The very fact that she has made you angry with her is, again, punishment enough. I'm sure she feels as bad as she possibly can.

Now, concentrate efforts on getting her teacher involved with helping her with her spelling so that she doesn't feel that cheating is her only course of action.

Clare
 
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