Need advice from veggies, please

[morningstar]

My thought is that I don't see any chimpanzees in the wild running around with a calculator, checking if their protein intake is sufficient, or if they need to cut back on their carbs on any given day. And most of them look pretty darn good. I just make sure that I eat a wide variety of foods. I feel really good and my bloodwork is great.

As chimpanzees are omnivores, it would hardly be necessary for them to worry about combining their proteins. Chimps are generally fruit and plant eaters, but they also eat insects, eggs, and meat, including carrion. Still sure you want to emulate them? I've got some roadkill that will cook up nicely on the grill!

 

[Afreet]

I think the point was: chimps and other great apes (gorillas, bonobos, etc) eat mostly plants. They occasionally eat insects. They eat meat, but rarely (this really varies group-by-group among chimps and bonobos - gorillas eat no meat, per se, although they do eat termites and caterpillars from time to time). So if their bodies weren't capable of utilizing "incomplete" proteins, they shouldn't be alive. They are perfectly OK living on an overwhelmingly plant-based, dairy-free diet without freaking out about food combining, etc.

Obviously nobody wants to eat carrion. But yeah, in general, I think they set a good example and one worthy of emulation. It's the same principle advocated by Michael Pollan: "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants."

 

[hiitdogs]

As chimpanzees are omnivores, it would hardly be necessary for them to worry about combining their proteins. Chimps are generally fruit and plant eaters, but they also eat insects, eggs, and meat, including carrion. Still sure you want to emulate them? I've got some roadkill that will cook up nicely on the grill!

I hadn't heard of chimps going to Williams Sonoma to buy grills to cook up roadkill I agree that omonivores don't need to worry about combining proteins or worry about their protein intake, that was my point. What do you think humans are? Just a hint, Michael Pollan's book comes to mind "The Omnivore's Dilema".

Thanks for clarifying, Afreet! Yes, that was the point I wanted to make.

 

[morningstar]

I hadn't heard of chimps going to Williams Sonoma to buy grills to cook up roadkill I agree that omonivores don't need to worry about combining proteins or worry about their protein intake, that was my point. What do you think humans are? Just a hint, Michael Pollan's book comes to mind "The Omnivore's Dilema".

Thanks for clarifying, Afreet! Yes, that was the point I wanted to make.

Well, duh, that was my point too- that omnivores DON'T need to combine their proteins, but vegans are NOT omnivores! They are herbivores stuck in the bodies of omnivores and have to somehow make veganism work for them.

 

[hiitdogs]

Well, duh, that was my point too- that omnivores DON'T need to combine their proteins, but vegans are NOT omnivores! They are herbivores stuck in the bodies of omnivores and have to somehow make veganism work for them.

Who do you say "duh" to? Wasn't this thread about vegetarians, pescetarians, etc.?

I was just counteracting the claim that humans need animal protein in order to survive and I said that our closest relative, the chimpanzee, eats a wide variety of foods, mostly plants and survives just fine without obsessively calculating about combining the right plants.

Omnivores can eat EITHER plants or other animals. They don't have to eat animal protein in order to be healthy. Herbivores and carnivores are limited. Vegans are NOT "herbivores stuck in an ominvore's body" I kind of like being an omnivore because I can chose to be vegan if I want to and it won't effect my health negatively.

Dairy is on no omnivore's list of needed foods. Humans are the only species who thinks that we need to have the breastmilk of other mammals until old age in order to be healthy. But then again we are also the only species with advertising agencies

 

[morningstar]

Who do you say "duh" to? Wasn't this thread about vegetarians, pescetarians, etc.?

Yes, the whole thread was, but you responded to my point originally, which was about vegans - hence, the "duh".

 

[hiitdogs]

Yes, the whole thread was, but you responded to my point originally, which was about vegans - hence, the "duh".

Well, then keep your "duh" comment to yourself. You talked about complete proteins and then your vegan conspiracy theory. My response to you was that your theory about proteins only remaining in the body for a couple of hours is flawed. This was a general statement and doesn't only apply to vegans or vegetarians.

 

[morningstar]

Well, then keep your "duh" comment to yourself. You talked about complete proteins and then your vegan conspiracy theory. My response to you was that your theory about proteins only remaining in the body for a couple of hours is flawed. This was a general statement and doesn't only apply to vegans or vegetarians.

As I don't take my marching orders from a self-righteous left-wing conspiracy theorist, I don't believe I will keep my comments to myself.

Peace out, y'all.

 

[hiitdogs]

As I don't take my marching orders from a self-righteous left-wing conspiracy theorist, I don't believe I will keep my comments to myself.

Peace out, y'all.

Geeh, don't hold back! Is personal insults all you got?

 

[Stephanie0523]

As a big fan of both you ladies, I mean no offense when I say LIGHTEN UP!!! Geesh. Aren't we vegetarians supposed to be peace lovers? By the way... I've been one whole week without consuming any meat (not even fish). Yay me!

 

[morningstar]

As a big fan of both you ladies, I mean no offense when I say LIGHTEN UP!!! Geesh. Aren't we vegetarians supposed to be peace lovers? By the way... I've been one whole week without consuming any meat (not even fish). Yay me!

Didn't you know? Carola and I get into it frequently. Don't worry about it. It's not close to the first time and it won't be near the last time.

Interesting article: http://www.americanscientist.org/issues/pub/chimpanzee-hunting-behavior-and-human-evolution/1

Chimps are not just incidental insect eaters.

 

[hiitdogs]

I am sorry, Stephanie!!! I shouldn't have turned your thread into a pissing match.

So how do you feel so far?

 

[Stephanie0523]

I am sorry, Stephanie!!! I shouldn't have turned your thread into a pissing match.

So how do you feel so far?

Not "my" thread, silly, just wanted harmony among everyone. (You know I adore your political views/debates/pluckiness!!) I feel great! I have been super tired this week, but I think it's from lack of sleep. I bought the stupid book New Moon and got sucked in as if I were a teenage girl. So I stayed up late each night reading. I'm pretty sure that's the reason for my sluggishness. I've also gone off my birth control pill too in hopes of reducing some of the estrogen in my system. I'm hoping that all these things will balance me out and I will start feeling more energetic AND lose these very pesky last 15 pounds of baby weight (not obsessing over it anymore though).

 

[Fidget Queen]

The weird thing is, I have felt sick over the past three months. Lots of headaches, 2 sinus infections, I have a fever today, I'm tired a lot... Here I am eating extremely healthfully and I'm feeling like crap! Do you see anything listed above that I might be doing wrong?

Thanks,
Wendy

I've had the same problem as you. I started dating my SO over 4 years ago now and he is a vegetarian and eats completely vegan at home (which is most days). As I was already heading towards vegetarianism and even toying with raw vegan, I was more than fine with this. He cooks and I have no problem with his cooking. But these last 4 year have been a medical hell for me. I've been sick constantly, my acne exploded, my skin started scarring badly, I came down with mono that knocked me out for a year, I started losing my hair, my menstrual cycle turned wicked, I now have PCOS, my energy left me completely, and, of course, the depression that followed turning into a listless, ugly, and sick freak didn't help either. Before I went vegetarian, I was not sick often at all. Then I started coming down with every cold, flu, and bug that went around. It's like my immune system died. I ended up suffering with severe insomnia and anxiety as well. Oh, and my digestive system and bowels have been an absolute NIGHTMARE since then.

Anyway, I had several doctors (regular physicians as well as holistic MDs and several acupuncturists) tell me that I needed to start eating meat. I didn't buy it. I kept thinking that if I just worked harder to balance out my diet with all veggie stuff, I'd be fine. I drowned myself in greens, green powders, spirulina and chlorella (a very good source of easily digestible protein) and goodness knows how many things. I did everything "right" according to all rules vegan. Finally, after being told that I couldn't have beans anymore because of an allergy, I started adding in bits of meat. Just a little of everything, but mostly fish. Meat genuinely grosses me out now, but I have to see if it helps my health. While many things haven't gotten better, my energy has improved pretty dramatically. I have been sleeping a bit better and my anxiety is no longer out of control. I don't overdo it, and I still have days when I just don't want meat, but it's becoming regular in my diet again.

A couple of weeks ago, I bought a book about eating for your blood type. I'm O and apparently we are the "meat eaters." I wouldn't so much buy it except that all of the foods that the author says we are supposed to avoid showed up on my allergy tests as no-nos. There are a few things that I don't relate to, but I do fit the profile most of the way.

I believe very strongly in kicking processed crap to the curb. There is no need for it. But I don't believe we all thrive on the same diet. It is unreasonable to think that we could. It just took me a lot of heartache and a lot of years to accept it for myself. It has been difficult for me to accept eating meat again for ethical reasons, but I'm so screwed up that I need to start doing what feels better for my body. So, just keep in mind that what works for some will not work for you!

 

[PhyllisG]

Just my experience---I am also blood type O and have been vegetarian on and off since l980. I have not experienced any of these problems and really am seldom sick--at least so far. I read that book also on the advice of a friend and saw that we are supposed to be "meat eaters". I really don't pay much attention to food combining but do eat quinoa, lots of greens and salads, some lentils and beans and yogurt. The only supplement I take is B12. So I am not sure about that blood type diet. I have been vegetarian now for the past 5 years and so far so good. Hope you are feeling better. There really is no one answer for everyone.

 

[Fidget Queen]

Just my experience---I am also blood type O and have been vegetarian on and off since l980. I have not experienced any of these problems and really am seldom sick--at least so far. I read that book also on the advice of a friend and saw that we are supposed to be "meat eaters". I really don't pay much attention to food combining but do eat quinoa, lots of greens and salads, some lentils and beans and yogurt. The only supplement I take is B12. So I am not sure about that blood type diet. I have been vegetarian now for the past 5 years and so far so good. Hope you are feeling better. There really is no one answer for everyone.

I agree with you. It rang true with me (and my dad, who is also an O), but my mom is an A and her section didn't make any sense to her at all. To me, it was only a validation of what I was already discovering for myself. I do think that most people can eat veggie or vegan and have no problems if they are balancing out their diet (regardless of their blood type). I became obsessed with nutrition and health because I was certain that I could be a veggie if I tried hard enough, but it just isn't true for me. A part of me still believes that it was all in my head, but 4 years is long enough of an experiment-gone-horribly-wrong to just swallow my pride and go back to what makes me feel good.

 

[kathryn]

I have a problem with tofu's texture, and "mock meat" things (except for soy crumbles in my chili, love those). If tempeh is the same texture as tofu, forget it!

I think you'll like tempeh. It's texture is actually more like soy crumbles (and you can make it moreso by crumbling it up before you stir fry or prepare it).

And about tofu: I've found that many people who don't like tofu's texture are using the wrong kind of tofu.

The aseptically packaged tofu (like Mori-Nu) is good for blending as a base for puddings or dips, or throwing in a smoothie, but NOT for scrambles or stir fries or baking. You need to get the water-packaged stuff for that.

And you can make it more dense by wrapping it in a dishtowel and putting a weight on it (a plate with a heavy jar of something) to press out more water, or you can freeze it (it will turn yellowish, but that doesn't make it bad) and before using, thaw and squeeze.

 

[kathryn]

Wendy,

if you are at risk for ovarian or breast cancer you need to cut out all milk and dairy products! Your symptoms of headaches and sinus infections also point to possible allergies to dairy. I would try and cut out dairy totally for 30 days and see what happens.

In addition to this, you might want to try removing wheat and high-gluten grains from your diet, as they can also cause these symptoms if you are sensitive to them. Stick with non-gluten grains, like quinoa, millet, amaranth, buckwheat. (you could try an elimination diet: take the suspicious foods out of your diet for 3-4 weeks, then if you wish, try adding them back in a bit at a time and see how you react).

Wheat and gluten grains are acidifying to the body, and while we do need some foods that are acidifying (about 20% of our intake), tipping the balance too much can cause an acidic state that can promote disease (some Nobel prize winner in the 40's discovered that cancer cells can't reproduce in an alkalline environment, which suggests that an alkalinizing diet may be more protective against cancer).

 

[kathryn]

I love split peas and lentils as well, and love soups in the colder months. I guess I could make salads with those in the warmer months...

I like to have sandwiches with homemade hummus and broccoli sprouts, tomatoes, cukes, basil, spinach... But finding bread that is high in fiber and not full of a bunch of chemicals is hard for me. Any suggestions?

Wendy,
You could make pâtés and dips with the split peas and lentils as well. Use the pâtés to fill wraps or make romaine lettuce 'sandwiches' or to spread on crackers or just to mound on a salad.

Lentils make really nice 'burgers' and loaves as well.

And you could use romaine leaves instead of bread for your sandwiches.

 

[marmalade]

You've got a ton of great advice here! I've been vegetarian since I left home at 18 (coming up on 30 years now!). I started for ethical/environmental reasons, and only later came to appreciate the health benefits. Wish you the best with it.

One note on tofu: if all you've ever had is tofu that comes in vacuum packs or plastic tubs from the supermarket, don't give up on it. That stuff can be pretty bad. Go to an Asian market, if you live anywhere that might have one, that is. They'll have fresh made tofu in their produce section, and it tastes great, totally different than the packaged kind. Give it a try, if you can.

Again, I'm loving all of the support here! Thanks for not judging me for only dipping my toe in to test the waters. There are some who believe that vegetarianism is an all-or-nothing deal and can be harsh critics of those who don't fully commit, but you guys have been very kind.

Just want to add, and I hope this sounds as supportive and kind as it is meant -- vegetarianism IS an all-or-nothing deal. If you eat fish, you're not a vegetarian. You may be a "mostly vegetarian" or an "almost vegetarian" or a pescatarian, or whatever -- and all those are great things to be, no criticism or judgment implied! -- but you're not a vegetarian. This matters because people like me, who actually are vegetarians (eg, do not eat any animals, fish or otherwise), end up in awkward situations, even get hassled by people who say to us "But vegetarians eat fish! My cousin/friend/son-in-law is a vegetarian, and he eats fish!" I'm sick of having to defend/argue/explain. I'm sick of telling people I'm vegetarian, and then having them pick a restaurant with no vegetarian food, because, well, what's my problem, just order the fish! Because I'm a vegetarian, that's why.