Jealousy? Anyone?

I just want equality. The ability to be who I am. I would never want to passionately kiss in public, but would want to hold hands and show my love for another person. That is universal surely.

The thing is I’m not brave enough. Strong enough or (I guess) manly enough. I just don’t want comments being made. Comments are fifth grade stuff and adults should know better. Of course it’s only ever straight men that make comments. Threatened?

I sometimes think that programs like queer eye for the straight guy and will and grace, etc… while funny and good to laugh at, don’t actually help dispel the myths that exist. Not all gay men are camp or dress to impress everywhere we go. Me, I look like I’ve just got out of bed most mornings. Hair all over the place, etc… and I like that.

Sadly, Abergavenny is a million miles away from LA.

W x
 
Well, I have never been to Abergavenney - but if it's anything like Aberystwyth (I went there once for a University Open day and thought - "Nah!") then it's a pretty 'small town' place - am I right?!

I guess you feel more comfortable in an environment where there are other gay people, although this seems to mean going to gay clubs. I used to love going clubbing during my student days (even after I graduated for a few years!) but I've really outgrown that now. I still like listening to the music though (dance and trance).

I am in Llandudno now - pretty small town, there is a gay community here but it is fairly hidden. A lot of the entertainers at the hotels are (I am told) gay and there are now gay nights at a couple of the local clubs. There is also a gay hotel/spa somewhere! The closer you go to Bangor or Anglesey, however, the more narrow minded people are unfortunately and that upsets me.

I certainly wouldn't want to live in London - too expensive and crime-ridden. Apparently Manchester is quite 'fashionable' now - lots of trendy bars and cafes and designer shops - not at all like the 'Coronation Street' image! But having said that, I wouldn't want to live there either - no, I'm just emigrating to the USA instead! LOL! :D

I am so glad you haven't had any narrow mindedness directed towards you. I know a couple of gay women in Bangor who have been beaten up on the streets purely because of their sexuality; one of them doesn't fit the stereotype at all and still she is a target.

I think that as long as you are comfortable and happy with with yourself, then that is all that matters.
 
Even with my husband being in the military which means we are often apart more than we are together..he makes sure I am feeling secure and gives me no reason to be jealous. Men and women enjoy a little eye candy every once in a while..it's normal:)
 
Wayne, I don't think you lack bravery just because you don't show affection in public. I think it's very gracious of you, first of all, to behave differently than you'd like to simply because people don't understand. But you have a real reason to be concerned for your safety, too. People can be vicious.

Shari
 
Ah Wayne ... first of all, I have to say this ...

GOOD FOR YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! For having the courage and the confidence in who you are and how you live to speak your mind on here. I'm very, very proud of you.

Anyway ... I know a lot of gay people, although I admit most of the ones I know are women, not men, so my perspective may be a bit biased. It's been my experience in listening to people talk about their relationships - gay and "straight" - that people are people, no matter what their sexual orientation. They get jealous. There are insecure gay people, and there are insecure straight people. And, wouldn't you all agree that there is at least a little bit of insecurity behind every jealous feeling? Either that, or the "jealously" is really how the control freak in that person is manifesting itself. I'm sure I'm not the only one on here who has seen a control freak use their alleged "jealousy" as a weapon.

(edited here to say that NO, I am not saying you are a control freak! LOL!!)

I dated a boy (he was too immature to be termed a "man") for four years in college who would (pardon my French) "do" anyone who even remotely resembled a female, but he wouldn't let me go hang out with my friends for fear another guy would look at me. Now ... tell me ... who's the REAL fool here? Him, for being a dumbas** jerk with more double standards than anyone on the planet, or me ... for putting up with his crap for four solid years??? It's rhetorical - please - I KNOW the answer - LOL!!

My point is ... when two people are secure in a relationship, they are going to allow the wandering eyes, and the flirting, and the looking. We ALL do this. Men and women ... straight and gay. It's normal. It's human. It's when this behavior causes distress for the other person, or when it's waved in the other's person's face like a talisman that it becomes destructive. I don't feel ANY relationship can truly survive behavior like this, Wayne. Not in the long run.

I feel for you ... I really do. I mean, isn't that what we all want? A real relationship with someone we love, and someone who loves us, and with someone where we know there is mutual respect and trust? Sound too good to be true? No. It's not. But it is difficult to find at times. Even in the hetero world.

You hang in there, okay? Maybe your partner isn't "the one" ... maybe he is. Have you told him what you just told us? Can you talk to him about this? Would he ever consider going to counseling with you?

I hope things work out for you, and I hope my rambling helped!!

Carol
:)
 
Thanks Carol.

My partner is lovely and we talk all the time regarding these issues. He is a great guy and is easy to talk with. It just tough at times, you know...

W x
 
Wayne, I'm glad to hear you and your partner can talk! It's so important to keep the communication going. I'm sorry you're struggling so much with this. I hope things get better for you. Jealousy can consume you and eat you alive. It distorts the truth. If you trust him, and he trusts you, I think maybe the posters who suggested you avoid the places where the things you describe happen have the right idea. Maybe you and he and can go out to other places instead? If you don't put yourself in the situation where something is very likely to happen to make either of you feel jealous or insecure about the other, perhaps it won't happen, or at least not as often? Just a thought. I hope things work out well for you!

Carol
:)
 
>
>My point is ... when two people are secure in a relationship,
>they are going to allow the wandering eyes, and the flirting,
>and the looking. We ALL do this. Men and women ... straight
>and gay. It's normal. It's human.

Just wanted to add my two cents. I don't think it's fair to generalize and say "ALL" people do this. I don't have any desire to do this. In the FOUR years that I've been with my Fiancee I've NEVER once seen him notice anyone or have wandering eyes or flirt either. He's so loving and is always saying how I'm the only one who can turn his head. He's completely 100% satisfied with me. I'm his fantasy girl he's always dreamed of. He loves to tell me that other women have to compare to me, and that I set the standard. At first I couldn't believe it because my ex would always do this and I thought all guys were the same, but he's shown me that they're not. Even all of his friends constantly tell me how crazy he is about me and all he does when they're together is talk about me.

Don't get me wrong, I can tell if someone is attractive or not attractive (so can he), but we have never been attracted to anyone else or had wandering eyes either. Maybe when I was in 8th grade!! People are just people...it doesn't matter what anyone looks like. We are very attracted to and 100% satisfied with what we have. I wouldn't care if he did notice someone else (not the gawking thing of course) but he just doesn't do it and neither do I. I've just never seen him do it. I guess we're one in a million. :p Sometimes I'll point out someone who I think is pretty and he'll just say "So, she's got nothing on you". He's the best!!!

Trust me, I've been with someone before who had wandering eyes all the time right in front of me. I know there's a difference with some people.
 
Dani,

How sweet and so romantic! You have a great guy there and he definitely sounds like a keeper to me!

I have some friends who are the same way. They are so into each other it is so cute watching them.
 
Oh Wayne, stop. London is lovely. You need to get out of your little narrow-minded town and go live in London where you'll be a little more anonymous and no one will care one wit what you do or who you do it with, and there will be plenty of other terrific people just like you. Please, at least say you'll give it some thought.

-Nancy
 
>>
>My point is ... when two people are secure in a relationship,
>they are going to allow the wandering eyes, and the flirting,
>and the looking. We ALL do this. Men and women ... straight
>and gay. It's normal. It's human.


I also have to disagree with this. I have been in this relationship for 11 years. Neither of us have wandering eyes, and we absolutely do not ever flirt with other people. Not only would we never be this disrespectful to each other, but we honestly just don't feel the need or urge to do this. We are with each other because we completely love each other. We are attracted to each other. We certainly can see that other people have beautiful faces or bodies or personalities. Our eyes, however, do not wander towards those people, because they are too busy looking at each other. We are completely secure in our relationship.
Now, that doesn't mean that people who are in a relationship in which the partners DO flirt and look necessarily have a problem (although they might). I just wanted to agree that not ALL of us do this.

:)
 
Nancy, I think that's wonderful advice you've given Wayne. I grew up in Cleveland, and I've lived in smaller towns since then. The attitude toward "alternative" (I hate that word - it makes it sound like we're defining what is normal and what is not) lifestyles is much more open and tolerant in a larger town.

Wayne, I think that's a great idea. I think you and your partner would find the entire atmosphere, and certainly the nightlife, a lot more pleasant and comfortable.

Carol
:)
 
Ooops. I wrote my comment last night under the influence of several glasses of wine and neglected to mention that I was responding to Wayne's comment about London being crime-ridden and expensive.

Let me give you my perspective of London: I was walking down the street and saw someone sitting on the street begging for money. He had clean hair, two matching shoes, was wearing clean clothes and was wrapped in a clean, fluffy blanket. In New York he would have been lucky to have a piece of cardboard to put over himself, let alone clean clothes and shoes. Everything about London is so civilized and gentle by New York standards! The big, bad city seemed quite lovable to me. And being gay in London is about as noticable as having brown hair. I'm just saying that if I were you, I would think about living there. Just a thought for your consideration.

-Nancy from New York City
 
I also disagree with the idea that wandering eyes and flirting when in a secure relationship is fun, normal and acceptable.

I have been with the man who is now my husband since 1987. Neither of us has, in that time, had our eyes wander nor have we flirted with others. Why? We don't need to. We love eachother, and there's no-ne else either of us is interested in. Sure, there are zillions of guys better looking than my husband and zillions of women way more typically stunning to look at than me, but neither of us ever looks at them. I can honestly say that my husband NEVER comments on any other woman, nor does his head turn to swivel and watch their ass recede down the road. Neither do I ever find myself wishing I could see at close hand the contents of another man's pants. No thank you very much, he can keep them.

I say, if your partner can't stop eyeing up others, there's a problem there. Why aren't his/her eyes on you?

Clare
 
Actually it was me who said that London was expensive and crime-ridden! I've spent a lot of time there and certainly wouldn't want to live there permanently! But having said that, it is so cosmopolitan and people do seem as though they can just be themselves there.

Josie
 
Wayne, I'm just going to add that I too wonder if a change in your address wouldn't do you and your partner a world of good. I have a lesbian friend who had lived in Texas for the past 15 years. She moved back to our small mid-western town to be close to her son and her new grandson. When she lived in Dallas Texas being gay wasn't an issue because there is a large gay community there. When she decided to move back up north her partner didn't come with her so she's been 'single' ever since and believe me, it has been very hard for her to meet other gay people because our community is small. She got herself into a very bad situation last year when she invited a gay friend she met on the internet to come and stay a weekend with her. The woman ended up being very violent and it all ended very badly. Since that incident my friend has laid very low, re-evaluating what she needs and wants from life. I really wish she would move back to Dallas or at least to a larger city in the midwest where her chances of finding a new partner would be much better for her. It isn't that being gay in our community is dangerous, most people don't really give it a second thought but it's just that she doesn't have anyone to share her life with here on an intimate level. You know, you can have a hundred good friends but they're no substitution for intimate love and affection and we all need that in our lives. But she also wants to be a part of her grandchildren's lives so she is very conflicted at this point.

Good luck to you Wayne. I hope you can find a happy place, both mentally and physically, so you can live your life to the fullest.
 
Thanks for all the advice you guys. Thing is, i don't want to move closer to where more people are gay. I don't want to live within a gay community. I like living around every day people. Its normal. It keeps me sane! I don't think i could handle alot of gay men at any one time. Its not my cup of tea. I don't actually have that many gay friends anyway. They're mostly straight couples. I (for me anyway) its healthier.

London is a no, no. Its too busy. Too active and too scary! I like the quite! God i'm getting old!

I really appreciate your advice.

W x

ps - With regard to wandering eyes (ie - can notice someone attractive) but now that i'm with someone i love, i would never do it in front of them. Even if he is in front of me. I don't want to install that in my partner.
 
Wayne, you have to do what's best for you and your partner. I wish you all the happiness in the world, and I sincerely hope you find the way around this issue. It is there. Sometimes you just have to look a bit deeper. As long as you keep the lines of communication open with your partner, you'll be fine. Being in love is a lot like walking a tightrope sometimes, but the cheers from the crowd when you make it across to the other side are SO worth it!! Hang in there!! You're going to be fine!!

Carol
:)
 
Hello Wayne,

I am glad that you know what you want and know what is good/not good for you. I like the fact that you are not into this whole 'gay scene' and that you prefer just the quiet life with ordinary people.

I live in London and I don't always think it is perfect. It can be rather harsh and some people feel the need to make an exhibition of themselves. I am a v. quiet person and I hardly ever go out to the nightclubs and bars in London. I have always lived in a big city so I can't compare, but I do find big cities can be cold, lonely, fast paced and expensive lifestyle.

My impression of gay people in London is that they are showy, outlandish and like to be noticeable. I am glad you don't fit the stereotype, nor like the stereotype.

You stay where you feel happiest.

Yen
 
Hi Wayne - Gay woman here. I remember too well the games played in bars in the seventies and eighties. Don't know how old you are. I'm fifty and pretty much stay away from bars. I socialize with both straight and gay, neighbors, family, people from work, etc. I have a great network of people and many times we go out to hear live music, have dinner, a couple of drinks. The only gay bar I go to now is a place owned by a good friend (male). His place has always been open to men, women, straight, gay. It's unique. The place is small, crowd is mature. No games. We play pool, dice, dance, couple of drinks. A group of us meet there once a month which is enough for me.Perhaps there's a place like that in your area. I don't go for the loud, crowded places anymore. I love to entertain at home. Maybe that's an option for you. Anyway, I'm rambling. Good luck.

Mar;-)
 
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