Well, considering that we are talking about politics on this thread, I think things have remained quite civil. I think that is awesome!
As Nancy said, as we are sharing opinions, I just wanted to give some input. I am not sure where someone would hear that other countries pay 65 % in taxes. It's simply not true!
I grew up in Germany but also spent several years in other parts of Europe for school, work, etc. The year before I left Germany in 96, my income was in the vicinity of $ 200k, my total tax was between 38 to 44 % of my income (depending on deductions I could realize).
I paid
12.5 % towards Social Security / Retirement / Disability,
1.8 % what was called a "solidarity contribution" (to pay for the additional funds needed when the wall came down),
1.5 % for long-term care insurance,
7.5 % for health insurance (but only up to a cap of $ 60k in income, for a total of $ 375, the remainder of my income was exempt for health insurance purposes)
That was 12 years ago, the caps for health insurance have changed bringing the monthly payment to somewhere in the vicinity of $ 600 but that would cover both of my kids (or any additional kids) and a non-employed spouse.
Keep in mind though, if you are making, say $ 40k, your health insurance premium will be 7.5 % of 40k, equaling $ 300.
All of that being said, the highest you pay at current is 47.65 %. That doesn't take into consideration any deductions.
I have also worked and lived in Sweden (which admittely has the HIGHEST tax rates and is the most "socialized" country in the Western hemisphere) as well as other countries in Europe. My payments in Sweden were about 5 - 7 % higher, going as high as 51 % of your income. But that is still a far way from the quoted 65 %.
I just wish people would not listen to the scare tactics or politics of fear, and actually talk to people who live and work in those "socialized" countries.
In Germany, the health insurance "industry" is somewhat complicated and divided, you have 6 or 7 different health insurance companies that are NOT government-owned but government-regulated and you also have private health insurance carriers which are NOT regulated. The private health insurance is AWESOME as long as you are young and have no pre-existing conditions, in fact, they are cheaper than the ones that are regulated in your 20s, 30s and 40s, and they cover more. However, you only have access to them IF you make over a certain cap or if you are self-employed.
To make a long story short, you will ALWAYS be able to get insurance and your payment is based on your income. AND most importantly, you don't have to fight for coverage, your doctor has the last say on what treatments need to be done.
And no, there NEVER were ANY waiting periods!! Two of my closest friends here, are from France and Canada, both of them unanimously stated that there were waiting periods for non-life threating procedures of 7 to 21 days, but serious issues were addressed IMMEDIATELY. As far as I am concerned, the waiting periods in "socialized" health care is a myth, put out there by oponents in the US to scare people. Which only goes back to the influence of lobbyists for the pharmaceutical and insurance industry in Washington. They DON'T want to lose or diminish their profits!
In fact, the only time I had experienced waiting periods was in the US through DHs HMO before we signed up for the PPO. That being said, we pay through our teeth for that PPO and I have so many oopsies on my credit report because they are just dragging their feet on things that they are supposed to pay and don't until you get really massive. Not to mention the horrendous deductibles.
I am not a fan of anything government-run or government-mandated, I do think that Obama's plan sounds somewhat similar to what I think could work and similar to the plan in Germany which I think is a great approach (just in Germany if you are not employed and cannot pay for insurance the government will pay for you). I don't think that would be an option here, nor should it be!
Geeh, people, getting comprehensive health care will NOT turn the US into a communist country. Health care should be a basic right, not only because it is the right thing to do, but also because it will help people getting out of the wrap they have gotten into AND get the economy going. Health care has gotten out of control here, for crying out loud, just look at the profits of the pharmaceutical industy and health insurance companies!!!
I think it is pretty easy to say, I don't want "socialized" health care, let's talk again, when YOU have a child that is in urgent need of a liver transplant and your health insurance turns you down and you watch your child deteriorate in front of your eyes!!
The other notion, that Obama has NO experience. If we are talking about experience, the Democratic nominees based on experience should be either Joe Bidden or Chris Dodd, but they didn't stand a stinkin' chance, did they?
Talk about experience, Cheney and Rumsfeld were probably the MOST experienced politicians out there, and where did that get us? No matter what side of the aisle you are on and aside from how you feel about the war, everyone agrees that the war was totally mismanaged.
Great experience doesn't always equal great results!!! Leadership doesn't necessarily have anything to do with experience.
I just don't see that "experience" will move us forward. When I started my business 10 years ago, I went up against a lot of people who had a LOT more (try 20 ro 25 years in the business) experience than I did and they were pretty arrogant about it, in my first 4 years, I was challenged / or my contract was with people in the business who told me that I had no clue, 3 times it went to the board/arbitration and I (or my clients) won every single one of them. I had my t crossed and i dotted, they didn't, and they had 20+ years of experience. Experience doesn't equal knowledge! And sometimes experience equals arrogance.
I just want to see something different. I don't know why we keep doing the same thing and expect different results.
Finally, for the past 25 years I had JFK's speech hung framed in my office, before I even moved here. It was one of the handful of things that I took with me when I moved here, I left almost everything I owned behind, aside from a few things that were important to me. I just want to quote it because I think even now, 40+ years later, it applies:
"We observe today not a victory of party, but a celebration of freedom—symbolizing an end, as well as a beginning—signifying renewal, as well as change......
Let the word go forth from this time and place, to friend and foe alike, that the torch has been passed to a new generation of Americans—born in this century, tempered by war, disciplined by a hard and bitter peace, proud of our ancient heritage—and unwilling to witness or permit the slow undoing of those human rights to which this Nation has always been committed, and to which we are committed today at home and around the world.
Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty.......
And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country.
My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man "
No matter who you vote for, make it clear to them that this is a government from the people for the people. And never forget that!
Just my opinion, for what it is worth.
