I am an exercise snob!

Bobbi, what are your credentials in the fitness field? The hip flexors FLEX THE HIP. When analyzing movement during strength training, the joint action of the working muscles designates the primary movers in the exercise, and the hip flexors ARE NOT PRIMARY MOVERS in a lunge or a squat on the concentric phase (coming up from gravity). The hip flexors act to control the movement eccentrically (toward gravity) on the front leg, but they are not working as prime movers on either leg - the quads, glutes and hamstrings (to a lesser degree - every hear of passive insufficiency or would you like to debate that as well?) are the prime movers on the front leg, and the quads and calves of the back leg. You get brownie points for the statement about the adductors and abductors acting as stabilizers, which is correct.

Cathe states that during a static lunge, the hip flexors and quads of the BACK leg are working, and the hip flexors are not working (being strengthened as a prime mover). Yes, they are on stretch, but since there is no movement taking place at the hip joint of the back leg, they are not a prime mover in the exercise. In fact, if someone has tight hip flexor muscles, they can even be the weak link in a lunge.

I appreciate your concern for Cathe but you are incorrect. And I don't recall ever seeing any fitness related credentials in any of your posts. Care to share them with us?
 
Trevor
I just thought I would say hi to you here and Thank you for the cardio advice you gave me and the points on lifting heavy Also from others like Kathryn and A-jock I have been doing this and feeling very strong Cut my cardio back to 20 muinutes hi intensity and more weights and I LOVE IT and am seeing great results!
Thanks
Merry Christmas
Lisa
 
Congratulstions Lisa! It realy does work doesn't it!? I'd love to hear more if you'd like to email me. Just let me know..
Merry Christmas to you too!!!
Trevor:)
 
Roe,
Calm down will ya? You're being a little touchy on this, no? I think Bobbi will be willing to discuss this disagreement without heading down the inflamed argument path. I've been in a few flame wars in here and I refuse to do it again. I would hate to see you two get at it.
I'm sure the answer to this can be found in a few mins. of searching the internet.
T.
 
Hip Flexor debate....here's a link

Root around in this link and see if you find the answer...


http://www.exrx.net/Lists/ExList/HipsWt.html#anchor1938598

Also did I miss something or aren't you both saying the iliopsas is involved in lunging? Is it degree of involvement that's the issue?
Another thing...to say the hip flexor isn't involved in the back leg during a lunge may technically be incorrect. It is being stretched, no? So at the very least it can be called a hip flexor stretch, right?

My concept of the hip flexor is that it is primarily used in moves that bring the thigh to the abdomen.

Lastly, why don't y'all just forget lunges and do a basic exercise like squats for god's sake! LOL! Just kidding. I do lunges as an auxilliary exercise every so often.
Trevor


:)
 
Roe, I don't know you, but I really think your reply to Bobbi was a bit ... shall we say ... challenging and harsh? It sounds as though you know what you're talking about, and since you are working in the field you obviously have knowledge about this the rest of us don't. I can appreciate that, certainly. But there are nicer ways of answering people, don't you think? Your post read as though you were in the playground, and you're the bully telling Bobbi to "put up or shut up". We are all adults here. We're talking about muscles, not military secrets or something. I don't have a degree in exercise physiology, and I'm not a trainer, and I only have as much knowledge about anatomy and physiology as I learned in nursing school, and as I've picked up from reading on my own and in these forums. But when I workout, I simply workout. I know which basic muscles I'm working, but beyond that, I don't give a rat's behind which head of which whatever I'm targeting. As long as I know my form is correct (one of the reasons I use Cathe!!), I'm not thinking about anything except getting through the set. All this talk about which teeny tiny fibers are working on which lunge or which whatever is like ... blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, ... what??? What was that wind noise? Yes, it's important to you, and you've made that painfully obvious. It needs to be. It's your job. Just like a patient's care and everything related to that is important to me ... when I'm doing my job! Not here. I really think you owe Bobbi an apology. Just my humble opinion, of course. Happy holidays.

Carol
 
No, I am not incorrect. To say that is to say you don't work your hamstrings in a straight legged dead lift where the hamstring does not flex as it would with a curl. I get terrific results from the straight legged deadlift and feel the work intensely in my hamstrings.

Regarding the hip flexor and the lunge, the exercise is wonderful in that it works so many muscles at once. Stepping the rear leg back a bit further SHIFTS the emphasis to the hip flexor and glute. So it really depends upon your stance during the lunge. You state there is no hip flexor involvement at all in the back leg of a lunge, then you contradict yourself saying, yes, there is but it's not a prime mover. A muscle does not need to be the prime mover to be worked which is what makes the lunge such a wonderful exercise since it targets all the lower-body muscles at once. Cathe states that the hip flexors are working; they may not flex but they ARE working. Her statement is correct.

As for my credentials, I have none. I was studying exercise physiology and nutriton when baby number three came along and I retired back into motherhood before completing my studies. Still, the original point of this thread was that credentials don't mean jack if an instructor can't execute form properly. Exercise physiology is not rocket science and while I have been out of the loop for awhile, I certainly know that during a static lunge, my hip flexor gets into the action.

The Cathe.com forums are perhaps not the best place to display your desire to rival Cathe. Your feelings are obviously ambivalent. Aren't you the same person who stated that Cathe has taken leanness to an extreme her recent workouts in the "I want to know thread? There's a second statement with which I disagree. Cathe is unrivaled in the exercise industry and she's exquisite! I'll take her word any day.


"http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/user.gif Bobbi
 
RE: Hip Flexor debate....here's a link

Hey, I'm ALL for skipping lunges and doing squats instead! Tee-Hee!
Your-Friend-In-Fitness, DebbieH http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/wavey.gif[/img] If You Get The Choice To Sit It Out Or Dance...I Hope You DANCE!!!
 
RE: Hip Flexor debate....here's a link

wow Debbie H
Is that an option If I'd only known But now I am actually liking them cuz I have gotten so much stronger This thread has certainly kept me up all night at my 12 hour shift so thanks to the debaters
Lisa
 
RE: Hip Flexor debate....here's a link

Hi Lisa!
In general squats are a basic move and lunges are used as an auxiliary move. That's in weightlifting circles of course, which is a little different from Cathe's routines. They are both excellent exercises so don't think you are getting off easy here. lol! You better not give up either of those!! Or there'll be trouble missy!! lol!
Trevor :)
 
RE: Hip Flexor debate....here's a link

How's miss Debbie H doing today? I miss talking with ya girl.
Trevor :)
 
RE: Hip Flexor debate....here's a link

I'm with you, Debbie! My favorite part of lunging is getting finished.

My argument was that the hip flexors is used during the lunge. I don't do any exercises to target my hip flexors while strength training. But I know they are work since I have a two-storied house and I like my step at 8". Short of hanging from my husband's chinning bar, I like a more functional approach. It's my favorite muscle to stretch though. Delicious!
http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/user.gif Bobbi
 
Hey Trev!

I miss talking to you too! :-( It's been a lil' nutty lately. I try to get here to keep up with everyone. It is sooo very nice to see you posting again. We missed you too. Well, I am running late for church. Been reading waaaay too long. Have a wonderful holiday season with your family. I'll be in touch soon!
Your-Friend-In-Fitness, DebbieH http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/wavey.gif[/img] If You Get The Choice To Sit It Out Or Dance...I Hope You DANCE!!!
 
RE: Hip Flexor debate....here's a link

Hello again
It is me w/another ? Basic Move and Auxillary Move could you explain this just wondering never heard the terms before. And no I will not give up on either.
Thanks again
Lisa
 
RE: Hip Flexor debate....here's a link

This is what Roe said:

And not to start a war, but Cathe herself has made
>some errors in regards to which muscles are working on certain
>exercises (such as the hip flexors and quad of the back leg in
>a lunge). There is no hip flexor involvement at all in the
>back leg of a lunge.

I responded to "there is no hip flexor involvement." Perhaps she meant no flexion?

http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/user.gif Bobbi
 
Trevor-

I agree! Those guys with the massive chests and twig legs always look like they're going to topple over! It's a frightening sight!
 
Big Picture Time

Ladies, ladies, as the self-appointed guru of peace and love during this holiday season, I command you to take a deep breath and stop! My only comment is this: when one gets so involved in the details, make sure you don't lose sight of the big picture. Details give you tunnel vision and a very narrow view of life (or exercise) if you don't watch out. Alexis
 
RE: Hip Flexor debate....here's a link

Hi Lisa!!
Here;s another link from the same site I put a link to before in this thread. It's a glossary section and will define alot of terms for ya.
Just click it and then scroll thru it. Auxilliary and basic are in there.
When you put a weight workout plan together you want to choose mostly basic moves. You can use auxilliary ones if you want but they are optional.
This site is awesome by the way. Cruise around in there and check it out.

http://www.exrx.net/WeightTraining/Glossary.html

Trevor :)
 
RE: Big Picture Time

Oh shut up Alexis!!!! :)
Just so you know I am kidding!!! Just trying to lighten the mood.
Trevor :)
 
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