How to get fat without even trying
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trevor
Guest
Hi Bobbi!
I think you and I are just on different sides of the fence here, which is cool. You want regulations on the food ads and perhaps other things so that people won't be swayed into doing things that are bad for them from a health aspect. I don't want any regulations because I don't want my choices taken away from me. I also know that once the government starts up with telling us what to eat, what to watch, etc. it will not stop there and more things will continue to be "regulated" for our own good because we cannot think for ourselves in the government's view. Before you know it, the regulating has spread to all areas of your personal life and daily routine.
What you want to do is regulate for everyone because the village idiots in society don't "get it", or don't want to "get it". I think you help people by giving them all the info that's available in order to help them make their decisions. I admit the ads on tv target certain audiences but again that's what the kill switch on the thing is for. Parents can always turn the thing off. They need to explain to their kids that television is just a bunch of visuals and not reality. They need to give their kids alternatives and be ready for explanations of what is good and what is bad, despite what tv may have on it.
You asked if I miss cigarette ads. No I don't but if they want to show some woman with huge breasts smoking 3 ciggies at once I wouldn't care. And it wouldn't phase me. I know the dangers of cigarette smoking and so I wouldn't run out to the 7-eleven with drool running down the side of my mouth to buy some. And I am a breast man!!! Just kidding!
And to answer your question about what brand names I have in my cupboard.....the answer is whatever brands I like to chow down on. I eat what I want to eat, when I want to eat it, and how I want to eat it, knowing full well what the known consequences of the foods I am eating may be. I take the time to know the choices and to pick them wisely. It's called thinking, and I just believe that we are in a society that doesn't want to think much these days or be very responsible.
Just my opinions. This is a great discussion.
Trevor
I think you and I are just on different sides of the fence here, which is cool. You want regulations on the food ads and perhaps other things so that people won't be swayed into doing things that are bad for them from a health aspect. I don't want any regulations because I don't want my choices taken away from me. I also know that once the government starts up with telling us what to eat, what to watch, etc. it will not stop there and more things will continue to be "regulated" for our own good because we cannot think for ourselves in the government's view. Before you know it, the regulating has spread to all areas of your personal life and daily routine.
What you want to do is regulate for everyone because the village idiots in society don't "get it", or don't want to "get it". I think you help people by giving them all the info that's available in order to help them make their decisions. I admit the ads on tv target certain audiences but again that's what the kill switch on the thing is for. Parents can always turn the thing off. They need to explain to their kids that television is just a bunch of visuals and not reality. They need to give their kids alternatives and be ready for explanations of what is good and what is bad, despite what tv may have on it.
You asked if I miss cigarette ads. No I don't but if they want to show some woman with huge breasts smoking 3 ciggies at once I wouldn't care. And it wouldn't phase me. I know the dangers of cigarette smoking and so I wouldn't run out to the 7-eleven with drool running down the side of my mouth to buy some. And I am a breast man!!!
Just kidding!And to answer your question about what brand names I have in my cupboard.....the answer is whatever brands I like to chow down on. I eat what I want to eat, when I want to eat it, and how I want to eat it, knowing full well what the known consequences of the foods I am eating may be. I take the time to know the choices and to pick them wisely. It's called thinking, and I just believe that we are in a society that doesn't want to think much these days or be very responsible.
Just my opinions. This is a great discussion.
Trevor
C
Carol_is_fit
Guest
Thanks for the kind words and encouragement, Trevor! I know you will love the book, and I'm glad to hear it's still in print! Those classics need to stay alive!! Let me know how you like it.
Carol
Carol
MadnNatsmom
Cathlete
Bobbi -
I think you've made very valid and thought-provoking points.
What some of us fail to realize with the blanket cautionary statement of "read the labels and make good food choices" is that many people in this country cannot read - what about them?
Also, what happens when almost everything in your local market except fruit and vegetables are laden with processed foods containing chemicals/preservatives that we, as consumers, know nothing about regarding it's ill effects? Please don't tell me you know that each and every ingredient in cereals are healthy.
I love fruits and veggies, but there's no way in hell I can eat just those two food groups day in and day out. I would like to have some chicken, a cookie or pastry without worrying about it's consequences on my health.
Who can make sure that "bad" things stay off of our grocery's shelves? You? Me?
For every person who is educated/knowledgeable about healthy/unhealthy foods, you will have 100 people who are clueless, just as we still have the majority of women in this country eschewing weight-lifting because they don't want to look like a bodybuilder DESPITE all of the articles and stories touting the benefits.
I think you've made very valid and thought-provoking points.
What some of us fail to realize with the blanket cautionary statement of "read the labels and make good food choices" is that many people in this country cannot read - what about them?
Also, what happens when almost everything in your local market except fruit and vegetables are laden with processed foods containing chemicals/preservatives that we, as consumers, know nothing about regarding it's ill effects? Please don't tell me you know that each and every ingredient in cereals are healthy.
I love fruits and veggies, but there's no way in hell I can eat just those two food groups day in and day out. I would like to have some chicken, a cookie or pastry without worrying about it's consequences on my health.
Who can make sure that "bad" things stay off of our grocery's shelves? You? Me?
For every person who is educated/knowledgeable about healthy/unhealthy foods, you will have 100 people who are clueless, just as we still have the majority of women in this country eschewing weight-lifting because they don't want to look like a bodybuilder DESPITE all of the articles and stories touting the benefits.
Bobbi
Cathlete
Trevor, I was also going to suggest a ban on those Victoria's Secrets ads. For my, husband you understand! They are so hard on his intelligence. Everytime one comes on, his IQ drops 80 points!
I have enjoyed this and it has me thinking. We have a problem and we need to work out solutions. I can't say what they might be and this is just one aspect of the whole. MadnNat's mom is absolutely right. I worry about pesticides and environmental toxins but it is hard to know where to begin to change things for the better. I think we are just moving too fast and our ability to know what we need to know hasn't caught up with all the nifty things that can be engineered. Hopefully, it will. My son loves his Cheerios because he saw a commercial that they are good for his heart! I am aiming for balance, allowing them some choices I don't like as long as they know that overall, it's gonna be clean in the diet department!
I am off to save the world! LOL! I tend to get a little over-enthusiastic at times! But I love when we get these dialogues going and whether we agree or not, I hope we will all keep discussing and learning from one another!
P.S. Mogambo, that's what I love about you!
http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/user.gif Bobbi
I have enjoyed this and it has me thinking. We have a problem and we need to work out solutions. I can't say what they might be and this is just one aspect of the whole. MadnNat's mom is absolutely right. I worry about pesticides and environmental toxins but it is hard to know where to begin to change things for the better. I think we are just moving too fast and our ability to know what we need to know hasn't caught up with all the nifty things that can be engineered. Hopefully, it will. My son loves his Cheerios because he saw a commercial that they are good for his heart!
I am aiming for balance, allowing them some choices I don't like as long as they know that overall, it's gonna be clean in the diet department! I am off to save the world! LOL! I tend to get a little over-enthusiastic at times! But I love when we get these dialogues going and whether we agree or not, I hope we will all keep discussing and learning from one another!
P.S. Mogambo, that's what I love about you!
http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/user.gif Bobbi
kathryn
Cathlete
Perhaps what we need is not regulation so much as a different type of "truth in advertising" policy. For example, ads for McDonalds wouldn't show fit-looking people chowing down on burgers and fries, but have actors who reflect that type of body one would get after following a diet heavy in Mcfoods. Candy-as-cereal ads would show children with bad teeth hyperactively running around the house. Ads for soft drinks would be promoted by people showing signs of malnutrition. Ads with African Americans like Aretha Franklin promoting dairy products would show her in the thows of intestinal pain brought on by lactose intolerance. A narrator at the end of the ads would quickly tell us what the negative effects are of all this bad stuff (like they do now with ads for medications).
The vast majority of Americans are very poorly informed about nutrition (I've heard people say things like "Oh, you're buying almonds, those have so much cholesterol in!")
Perhaps what we need is not regulation of advertising, but better health education in schools, that is NOT subsidized by the various food industries (many informational posters and such are provided by the meat and dairy industries, for example).
The vast majority of Americans are very poorly informed about nutrition (I've heard people say things like "Oh, you're buying almonds, those have so much cholesterol in!")
Perhaps what we need is not regulation of advertising, but better health education in schools, that is NOT subsidized by the various food industries (many informational posters and such are provided by the meat and dairy industries, for example).
Bobbi
Cathlete
food for thought
Nicely put, Kathryn, but a most discouraging thought! Truthful advertising smacks of oxymoronism! Can you imagine? It would be like Jim Carey's movie, Liar, Liar. I could do a Pop Tart commercial wherein I agree to buy them for my whining child brown stub-toothed child, but only as a desert, and some little speel about diabetes and the consumption of refined flour and sugar. And there's the rub, you can't sell a lie unless you make it look appealing and there's nothing appealing about the reality. I came to the conclusion yesterday, that I hate advertising. It's slick and pervasive and yet it's intrinsic to our society. I am as suscetible as the next guy, not about food but I have a Swiffer duster under my sink and OxyClean above my washer. I was impressed by neither.
It's amazing anyone could not know that almonds are cholesterol free since I have noticed that's a great selling point for products that have never had cholesterol in them. I agree absolutely that better and unsubsidized education is important but will it work if you go home to a mom who isn't in the know?
I have a sister who pops microwave popcorn and pours a whole stick of melted butter on it as well as another who drinks her half and half with a splash of coffee in it.
My dad was a farm kid who, when advised to switch to skim milk, said he used to slop the pigs with it. He was a tall, spare man and he certainly didn't drink three glasses of milk a day and he was naturally active, gardening and working in the yard but he was an old dog for whom there would be no new tricks in regard to eating. Of his thirteen children exactly two of us follow the guidelines for nutrition and exercise that meet the standards. Of the 30 grandchildren, how many do you think are buying into a healthy lifestyle and how many just following the old way? It's about 1/3 in the fitter camp, partly due to school sports programs and we tend to be naturally pretty lean, thanks to my dad's genes.
So, I think it's deeper than education although we need to do better there. We also need to reeducate those who have never gotten it and that is trickier because once a lifestyle is established, it tends to stick and then to be handed down. When you say supersize it to someone who thinks they should eat their meat and potatoes and clean their plate, an obesity epedimic is brewing. We are living in the land of milk and honey. There are three grocery stores within 3 miles of my house and plus two more within six. Two are open 24 hours a day and close only on Christmas day. We make up around 5% of the world population and consume 30% of the world's resources.
Yet every second I sit typing, someone dies from hunger in the world. Two hundred thousand children die from preventable causes and a half a million Americans will have died from heart disease caused by overconsumption in this year alone. The Big Picture is much larger than advertising or education, pro or anti-regulation and it's pretty bleak.
( Singing) "I'd like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony...."
http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/user.gif Bobbi
Nicely put, Kathryn, but a most discouraging thought! Truthful advertising smacks of oxymoronism! Can you imagine? It would be like Jim Carey's movie, Liar, Liar. I could do a Pop Tart commercial wherein I agree to buy them for my whining child brown stub-toothed child, but only as a desert, and some little speel about diabetes and the consumption of refined flour and sugar. And there's the rub, you can't sell a lie unless you make it look appealing and there's nothing appealing about the reality. I came to the conclusion yesterday, that I hate advertising. It's slick and pervasive and yet it's intrinsic to our society. I am as suscetible as the next guy, not about food but I have a Swiffer duster under my sink and OxyClean above my washer. I was impressed by neither.
It's amazing anyone could not know that almonds are cholesterol free since I have noticed that's a great selling point for products that have never had cholesterol in them. I agree absolutely that better and unsubsidized education is important but will it work if you go home to a mom who isn't in the know?
I have a sister who pops microwave popcorn and pours a whole stick of melted butter on it as well as another who drinks her half and half with a splash of coffee in it.
My dad was a farm kid who, when advised to switch to skim milk, said he used to slop the pigs with it. He was a tall, spare man and he certainly didn't drink three glasses of milk a day and he was naturally active, gardening and working in the yard but he was an old dog for whom there would be no new tricks in regard to eating. Of his thirteen children exactly two of us follow the guidelines for nutrition and exercise that meet the standards. Of the 30 grandchildren, how many do you think are buying into a healthy lifestyle and how many just following the old way? It's about 1/3 in the fitter camp, partly due to school sports programs and we tend to be naturally pretty lean, thanks to my dad's genes.
So, I think it's deeper than education although we need to do better there. We also need to reeducate those who have never gotten it and that is trickier because once a lifestyle is established, it tends to stick and then to be handed down. When you say supersize it to someone who thinks they should eat their meat and potatoes and clean their plate, an obesity epedimic is brewing. We are living in the land of milk and honey. There are three grocery stores within 3 miles of my house and plus two more within six. Two are open 24 hours a day and close only on Christmas day. We make up around 5% of the world population and consume 30% of the world's resources.
Yet every second I sit typing, someone dies from hunger in the world. Two hundred thousand children die from preventable causes and a half a million Americans will have died from heart disease caused by overconsumption in this year alone. The Big Picture is much larger than advertising or education, pro or anti-regulation and it's pretty bleak.
( Singing) "I'd like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony...."
http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/user.gif Bobbi
kathryn
Cathlete
RE: food for thought
And there's the rub, you can't sell a lie
>unless you make it look appealing and there's nothing
>appealing about the reality. I came to the conclusion
>yesterday, that I hate advertising. It's slick and pervasive
>and yet it's intrinsic to our society.
Hmm...is advertising primarily a way of trying to convince people that they need something that is of absolutely no use to them? I've seen statements to the effect that to eat a healthy diet, you should avoid anything that's advertised on TV. Seems pretty much true!
I think another problem is that people cue in to certain buzz words regarding food, and don't look beyond them. "Low fat" was one for a while (maybe still is). And many foods labeled that way contain TONS of refined sugar and often no fewer calories. "Low carb" seems to be the new one. Some people go for "sugar free," which just means the stuff is sweetened with some noxious artificial sweetener, while others gravitate toward the "no artificial sweeteners" label, which just means that the food is sweetened with sugar!
And putting "cholesterol free" labels on bananas? Oy!
And there's the rub, you can't sell a lie
>unless you make it look appealing and there's nothing
>appealing about the reality. I came to the conclusion
>yesterday, that I hate advertising. It's slick and pervasive
>and yet it's intrinsic to our society.
Hmm...is advertising primarily a way of trying to convince people that they need something that is of absolutely no use to them? I've seen statements to the effect that to eat a healthy diet, you should avoid anything that's advertised on TV. Seems pretty much true!
I think another problem is that people cue in to certain buzz words regarding food, and don't look beyond them. "Low fat" was one for a while (maybe still is). And many foods labeled that way contain TONS of refined sugar and often no fewer calories. "Low carb" seems to be the new one. Some people go for "sugar free," which just means the stuff is sweetened with some noxious artificial sweetener, while others gravitate toward the "no artificial sweeteners" label, which just means that the food is sweetened with sugar!
And putting "cholesterol free" labels on bananas? Oy!
Jenne
Cathlete
RE: food for thought
I also hate advertising. It's the primary reason I avoid most popular media when I can. I grew up in the military with advertising-free TV (our "commercials" were about what you could mail at the post office, or amazing moments in military history. And they were usually factually correct, since the military has higher standards for what it will put on the air.) I've been back in the states for nearly five years, and the level of advertising nauseates me. If it weren't for my husband's addiction to TV, I probably would have gotten rid of cable three years ago.
You're right... the Big Picture is much bigger than any of these single elements.
I also hate advertising. It's the primary reason I avoid most popular media when I can. I grew up in the military with advertising-free TV (our "commercials" were about what you could mail at the post office, or amazing moments in military history. And they were usually factually correct, since the military has higher standards for what it will put on the air.) I've been back in the states for nearly five years, and the level of advertising nauseates me. If it weren't for my husband's addiction to TV, I probably would have gotten rid of cable three years ago.
You're right... the Big Picture is much bigger than any of these single elements.
T
trevor
Guest
RE: food for thought
Not sure I understood your comment about "no cholesterol" labels on bananas Kathryn. I must have brain freeze this afternoon. lol!
Trevor
Not sure I understood your comment about "no cholesterol" labels on bananas Kathryn. I must have brain freeze this afternoon. lol!
Trevor
kathryn
Cathlete
RE: food for thought
>Not sure I understood your comment about "no cholesterol"
>labels on bananas Kathryn. I must have brain freeze this
>afternoon. lol!
>Trevor
Sorry, it's not clear. I was assuming everyone could read my mind! I just remember that when talk of cholesterol started, I began to see "no cholesterol" or "cholesterol-free" labels on things that never had cholesterol in the first place, like bananas. Just seemed weird to me.
>Not sure I understood your comment about "no cholesterol"
>labels on bananas Kathryn. I must have brain freeze this
>afternoon. lol!
>Trevor
Sorry, it's not clear. I was assuming everyone could read my mind! I just remember that when talk of cholesterol started, I began to see "no cholesterol" or "cholesterol-free" labels on things that never had cholesterol in the first place, like bananas. Just seemed weird to me.
Bobbi
Cathlete
RE: food for thought
And vegetable oils too, Kathryn. They love to proclaim their cholesterol freeness. Fat free and low fat foods have contributed to the obesity problem tremendously. People eat it as if it's calorie free.
Jenne, I usually only get the chance in the early AM when all you can get is infomercials which are unbelievable when it comes to lying. Fitness product commercials are the worst. The Wasteland of television. Three hundred channels and nothing on. There's some good stuff but overall, I'm not impressed. But happily, it doesn't matter to me because I am obsessed with my computer and my new BB's!
http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/user.gif Bobbi
And vegetable oils too, Kathryn. They love to proclaim their cholesterol freeness. Fat free and low fat foods have contributed to the obesity problem tremendously. People eat it as if it's calorie free.
Jenne, I usually only get the chance in the early AM when all you can get is infomercials which are unbelievable when it comes to lying. Fitness product commercials are the worst. The Wasteland of television. Three hundred channels and nothing on. There's some good stuff but overall, I'm not impressed. But happily, it doesn't matter to me because I am obsessed with my computer and my new BB's!
http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/user.gif Bobbi
As a general rule I am against regulation in many arenas and advertising would be no exception. I agree that advertising that targets children, whose brains are not fully developed and therefore naturally lack some of the reasoning and deductive skills that adults have, is repugnant. I agree that advertising is very powerful and the impact of that power should not be overlooked (I have Nike crosstrainers that I workout in, name brand cereal in my pantry, Estee Lauder cosmetics in my medicine cabinet). I agree that the state of nutrition in this country is reaching a crisis point. Regulating advertising will not change any of this, IMO.
If people are ignorant about nutrition, they should be taught. Parents should be offered classes (in multiple languages) to learn about what constitutes sound nutrition, how to read a food label, how to plan meals that are sensible. Children should be taught about nutrition and the ill effects of bad choices in school and this education should be as valued as the reading, writing and arithmetic that they are tested on every year to meet 'standards'. If people say that don't have access to good food choices, they should be pointed to resources which have them. Lots of grocery stores, food banks, and food businesses in my area discount or donate 'day old' stuff or produce. You have to know where to look.
I won't even get into the area of how physical education is failing our children and the turn of this country as a whole to a very sedentary lifestyle.
Bobbi, I agree with you that it takes a village sometimes. I think that the village should not create dependence on this entity to do everything. A village should provide the opportunity for personal growth were the individual is responsible for that growth. Have the village teach someone to fish. As the saying goes, 'give a man a fish and you feed him for one day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime'. We need to do some teaching!!!!!
Just my two cents.
If people are ignorant about nutrition, they should be taught. Parents should be offered classes (in multiple languages) to learn about what constitutes sound nutrition, how to read a food label, how to plan meals that are sensible. Children should be taught about nutrition and the ill effects of bad choices in school and this education should be as valued as the reading, writing and arithmetic that they are tested on every year to meet 'standards'. If people say that don't have access to good food choices, they should be pointed to resources which have them. Lots of grocery stores, food banks, and food businesses in my area discount or donate 'day old' stuff or produce. You have to know where to look.
I won't even get into the area of how physical education is failing our children and the turn of this country as a whole to a very sedentary lifestyle.
Bobbi, I agree with you that it takes a village sometimes. I think that the village should not create dependence on this entity to do everything. A village should provide the opportunity for personal growth were the individual is responsible for that growth. Have the village teach someone to fish. As the saying goes, 'give a man a fish and you feed him for one day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime'. We need to do some teaching!!!!!
Just my two cents.
T
trevor
Guest
RE: food for thought
Gotcha Kathryn!! Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Trevor
Gotcha Kathryn!! Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Trevor
Bobbi
Cathlete
I agree, Sabine, and I think we need to get them in motion too. I'm turning forty-one next week and was musing about how different the world is today. When I was kid you could get cartoons on Saturday mornings, not 24/7 on myriad cable stations. We played our butts off. We have to factor in computers, cable, video games and the fact that these kids are so used to high tech entertainment that running and playing just isn't exciting enough. My mom used to buy Doritos and Little Debbies and we loved them but they were consumed, mostly on grocery day, when we ate them like there was no tomorrow and she never headed back to restock them. They went on the next grocery list. The world has changed. In some ways it's better but our children grow up too fast, they are exposed to too much garbage in the guise of pop culture and it's all taking it's toll.
I think we are the village, Sabine! We have to figure out how to get some changes made. And I know the best way to bring about big change is one small change at a time. Think globally, act locally. I could certainly help educate folks. I am proud to call myself a nutrtion buff and I am a busybody!
http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/user.gif Bobbi
I think we are the village, Sabine! We have to figure out how to get some changes made. And I know the best way to bring about big change is one small change at a time. Think globally, act locally. I could certainly help educate folks. I am proud to call myself a nutrtion buff and I am a busybody!
http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/user.gif Bobbi