How often do you all stretch???

naughtoj

naughtoj

Cathlete
Hi everybody!!

I was curious about this because I have had chronic upper back pain for about 2 years now and have begun to see a Rolfer to try to alleviate some of my pain. I have MILD scoliosis and the doctors tend to attribute the pain to this and to my computer desk job. They never give me painkillers cuz I guess I don't whine enough (and I know anyway that they are not good for me. Basically, they act like nothing can be done other than for me to pay attention to my posture, strengthen, and stretch.

Finally I gave up with finding another reason for my pain other than scoliosis and decided I should just take matters into my own hands. Well, I have got all the cardio and strength training down and do stretch, but, apparantly not often enough or long enough.

Seems I am SO muscle-bound and inflexible, that my Rolfer has told me that I should reduce all strength training to around 1.5 hours a week, little to no cardio, and stretch, either through yoga or a stretch tape, atleast 5 hours a week!!!! Basically, he has told me to stop "tightening down" my body and start "lengthening it out". I am a mesomorph, 5'0 tall and 134 pounds. This condition really seems depressing to me, as right now I strength train atleast 3 hours a week, cardio around 5 hours a week, if not more. My Rolfer says he cannot help me unless I start lengthening my muscles.

I got really angry, not because he told me to stretch, but because I know SO MANY people that never stretch and don't have the problem I have. Those people are still flexible!! Why so many hours of stretching. Right now I can almost lay my hands flat on the floor when touching my toes (muscles fully warm).

I was just wondering if anyone else has been given recommendations to stretch for long periods of time, or if anybody else finds this very helpful. It is very disconcerting for me to have to give up all my other workouts for this!! I guess I must be as tight as a rubberband!!
 
I'm not sure I should be trying to answer you since I know nothing about Rolfing and have not been given any specific "how many times to stretch" advice but I can't resist sticking my thoughts in anyway.

First, what's up with the little to no cardio?? My stretching tapes generally recommend doing stretching after at least some cardio because the cardio warms your muscles, making them more stretchable--you can go further into the stretch with less chance of injury. (Some do note that if you don't do cardio first, a hot shower or bath is a decent substitute.)

Second, if you can bend over and almost touch your palms to the floor, that doesn't sound so inflexible to me. Although I do know that a person can be flexible in some areas of the body and tight in others.

As far as my own stretching experience, I first added Tamilee Webb's Beginner's Stretch for Flexibility, doing it about three times a week after cardio. It's about 30 min. long and just a lovely tape. After several weeks I noticed that some of the stretches were getting hard to feel because my flexibility had improved significantly so I moved to yoga. I do Bryan Kest's Power Yoga series and find it excellent for both balance and flexibility work, and I really like his attitude about conforming the poses to your body instead of the other way around. I do his tapes at least twice a week and when I have time I'll throw in a third session or do the Tamilee Webb tape for an easy relaxing time.

Now, since I don't know either Rolfing or your body, I have a lot of nerve saying this, but I just can't help wondering if even though your Rolfer knows Rolfing, he may not really know that much about various exercises and their positive effects on your body. Maybe you have to experiment on your own? Just my thoughts. --Karen
 
I stretch 2x/week. I add a 30 min stretch after my cardio workout mid-week (usually a Wed or Thur) and a 30 or 60 min stretch every Sunday.

Donna
 
I stretch every day. I do Yoga 2X per week for 60-90 minutes and on the days I don't do Yoga, I do basic upper and lower body stretches for 10 minutes. I have not given up either strength training or cardio (I do about the same amount of those as you do) -- I think they are all important to give you body balance.

Have you ever read any books on Rolfing? I have done a bit of reading. I'm not an expert by any means, but I thought the purpose of Rolfing was to teach your body to align itself so that you can continue with your normal activities (including strength training). Have you ever seen a sports physiotherapist? It might be helpful to get a different point of view from a different professional. I'm guessing that you may need to build up strength in some areas (upper back and rear deltoids?) and stretch others (neck, trapezius, chest?).
 
Agreeing with Karen

Hi Naughtoj!

I don't mean to butt in, either, but I just want to say that I totally agree with Karen's comments. Like Karen, I especially question this fellow's advising you to give up cardio, not just because it is indeed important to have warmth in your muscles before you stretch but also because cardio is so vital to your body's health.

And it sure doesn't sound like you're terribly inflexible. Your hands reach closer to the floor than mine do! I'm not a naturally flexible person, either, but in my mind that simply means that I have to warm up more carefully, stretch longer and more often, and expect maybe a little more modest results. I can and do stay fairly supple and, within my own range, reasonably flexible. But doing a split isn't in my future (wasn't in my youthful past, either! :))

I wouldn't know a Rolfer if I tripped over one, but Karen's correct to caution you that this person may have great expertise in some areas and none at all in other important areas. Why not think about getting a second opinion from another physiology expert -- e.g., a personal trainer, orthopedist, or physical therapist?

Good luck to you -- let us know how you're doing!


http://www.clicksmilie.de/sammlung/sport/sport003.gif Kathy S.
 
Thanks for the advice everyone.

Well, the thing is, yes, I can reach my hands almost flat on the floor, but I focus much more on lower body stretching because of my running, than I do upper. Although Mr. Rolfer man says my lower body is so tight he cannot understand how I don't have tons of pain in my hips..hip flexors and such I guess, although I do those stretches all the time. I told him when I stretch I hold the stretch for 10-15 sec. each time for about 3 reps, and he laughed. He said I needed to hold it for atleast 1 minute!!

I think he really means well. I mean, when you look at me, I look like a very fit 26 year old woman. No health problems except this EVERYDAY constant nagging upper back pain. So everyone wants to help me, but is running out of explanations. All I have ever had done was X-rays..have seen a chiro that helped none, and went to a physical therapist who also didn't help, just showed me how to do stretches I already knew and wanted to charge 200.00 for that!!

My rolfer gave me a video called Flexability by some guy that trains Olympic Athletes in stretching and has been doing it for 20 years. The tape is 1 hour 15 min. in length and is BORING!!! I either have to do that or yoga.

I am more frustrated because I don't understand why I am not like everybody else. Everyone here seems to do Cathe tapes 3-5 times a week, and the Rolfer acts like that is way too much for me, since I am so muscular. It is easy to come to this conclusion though..in defense of my rolfer even though I don't like him anyway...because many people think I am too " bulky". I have the whole buff person walk, you know?? Where you have no neck and your legs are like tree trunks?? :):)
The frustrating thing is that my body has always been that way and it has just been recently that I started lifting seriously, yet everyone thinks I do too much. It is kinda funny. It is like ..hey ..news flash...this is HOW I AM NO MATTER WHAT!!!!

The rolfer is taking all my money..he cost 150.00 a session..once a week!!!!!His personality is really annoying so I am just putting up with it to see if he helps me. No one wants me to give up yet, since I have tried everything but seeing a specialist. Oh, and he told me little to no cardio, because when I told him I have always been muscular even when I only did cardio, he said that cardio as well, was tightening me down without adequate stretching to balance it. Right now, he said, I am so far gone from limber, I literally have to give up some of my other pursuits in order to quickly increase my flexibility. It is hard though, for 150.00 a session and no relief to keep going to him, but when you are desperate....you are desperate!!

Thanks again everyone. I guess I am just angry that I am apparantly the mesomorph of all mesomorphs with the tightest body this man has ever seen!! And I have only been lifting for about 6 mos...go figure!!! I guess I will partially compromise with him and atleast work in stretching a few times a week. I NEED cardio to feel alive MON- FRI at my ultra boring desk job!!!!! Janice
 
I am also going to call a specialist for the spine tommorrow and see if I can get an appointment. Atleast THAT is covered by insurance!!!! Thanks again..Janice
 
How often? After every workout but usually not for long. If it's a video, just the stretching segment. For outdoor cardio, I like Tamilee Webb's 10 min stretch w/ some extra work on the legs. I try to do 1 long stretching video (Scott Cole, Webb, or yoga) each week. And at least 2 Pilates mat sessions.

You & I share the same trouble spot - upper back. I thought that leaving a desk job would alleviate it, but it's still very tight. I don't know anything about Rolfing but if it doesn't fit your lifestyle maybe you should look into other things. Personally, I enjoy Pilates which also works on muscular balance, improved posture & flexibility. Yoga has helped too (when it's in my routine). One of my fellow Spinners is getting certified in Feldenkrais (a very long process) & she's working with some friends on posture & movement with great success. I've also read the a tight upper back indicates a muscle inbalance between chest & back - food for thought. So I'm suggesting you look into other approaches that will allow you to continue the activities you enjoy.

Your ability to touch the floor indicates you're not inflexible, but have a problem area. Like the others, I don't see the logic in eliminating cardio.

Good luck finding relief.
 
Hi Janice,
I can certainly sympathise and relate to your situation! I have mild degeneration in my thoracic spine (upper/middle back) which causes me nagging pain on a regular basis. I also have a condition of the lumbar spine (lower back) called "spondylolisthesis" (bit of a mouthful!). Basically, this means that one of the lumbar vertebra is made up of spongy tissue/cartilage rather than bone. Apparently this condition is common in athletes and gymnasts. People who have this condition are usually very flexible through their lower backs and are able to drop down and touch their toes or put their palms to the floor without any kind of warm-up. Now I'm not suggesting that you have this condition, but am just highlighting the fact that if you are able to put your palms to the floor, then flexibility is definitely NOT a problem for you - at least not as far as your lower back/hamstrings are concerned.
My specialist has actually told me NOT to do alot of stretching as this will aggravate/worsen the problem. However, he did recommend regular core stability work in order to strengthen the deep abdominals/core stabilsers and back muscles.
With regard to the upper back pain, have you tried taking anti-inflammatories (natural or otherwise)?. Sometimes, a short spell on anti-inflammatories can break the "muscle-spasm-pain-muscle-spasm-pain" cycle. I took anti-inflammatories for 6 weeks, and although I hated the idea of them, they did do the trick for me. Obviously, this would be something to discuss with your GP.
Sorry to be so long-winded, but I hope this helps a little.
Kaz.

PS - I am also a classic mesomorph - broad shoulders, large frame, build muscle easily, and "look" bulky/muscular (especially when overweight!) even without the weights work!

Today Is The Tomorrow We Worried About Yesterday And All Is Well.
 
Willowe..
Well, I can reach the floor with my hands, but DEFINETLY not if I am not warmed up!! I would consider myself rather inflexible, even with the ability to do that, as that hamstring and hip flexor stretch is about the only one I do really regularly.

I never had this pain until I got a desk job. I remember in high school having a little back trouble in the same spot, but it entirely went away. Through college I weighed 98 pounds..30 pounds less than now. I attribute the onset of pain to the weight gain and the job, because if anything, I am in better overall shape now. But I am not overweight...certainly not in the way where you would experience many negative side effects. So, it looks like it may come down to quitting my job. Sitting makes it very much worse, as it is almost like that provokes the pain. I have been on two different kinds of anti-inflammatory...Daypro and Naproxen, neither of which seemed to do anything for me. Baths usually alleviate the pain for awhile, but it always comes back. When I wake up in the AM I feel the best and then it always goes downhill from there.

It is nice to know that their are other people with simialar problems. I wish I had another place to go to talk to someone about this. I do think it is important, however, to see a spine specialist. Maybe they will know. The rolfer thinks that it was my ankle that at one time took some trauma that in turn tweeked out my right knee, that in turn twisted my right hip joint, which in turn, is pulling on my upper back. Little hard to swallow. Chiropractor thinks I have simple scoliosis, with no signs yet of degeneration, but says my neck is "going the wrong way"...something called cervical kyphosis. He thinks they are two unrelated conditions and that at some point in my life I had some trauma to my neck. So, go figure!! The best explanation I have is that whatever this is, is congenital...I was 4 months premature and my mother was told that I was going to die (back in '76). Of course, I lived, but I am more inclined to believe my problem rooted there.

Thanks for all your advice and by all means, if you all have any other suggestions, I would love to hear them!!!
 
I do a lotta Yoga. I need it. I need the stretching and lengthing of my muscles. I would say 5 hours a week may not be too much in the long run, but I only do about 30 minutes 5 days a week so.... There are many, many good Yoga tapes out that are not a bore to do also. Look around, try some things and different styles too.

Also I highly suggest Beryl Bender Birch's book Power Yoga it's a program specifically for athletes who work out A LOT. You'll get a lot of good info from this book for sure. Especially info on how Yoga can assist with the tightness from training. She however does not suggest to STOP working out.

Another book and video is Beth Shaw's Yoga Fit. GREAT!! AND, I know Cathe is planning on "Yoga Max" do I have that right? :-jumpy, sure hope so.

HOWEVER, I do not feel I need to stop lifting weights or doing cardio in the name of Yoga only. I have the same spinal issue you do and a problematic left knee and the Yoga has helped a great deal. I see the Yoga as phsycial therapy for the tightness that can come from lots of weight training and from some cardio with hamstring and foot issues and knee problems.

Hope this helps a little. :)

Edith
 
It seems all of your back problems in some way come back to your desk job. Chronic back pain is very common in people who do prolonged sitting during the day. Have you tried standing up and doing a few stretches at work on a regular basis, ie. at the top of every hour? Other suggestions could be to wear a lumbar support under your clothes to work. Also what about your posture and the type of chair you are sitting in?? Some chairs are better than others for promoting better posture, the so-called ergonomic (I think that's right??) chairs. There are alot of websites on lower back pain/desk jobs, some sites better than others, you may want to check some of them out, could even maybe get your employer to help with some of your medical bills if it's work-related. I'm not at all trying to seem litigational. And for what it's worth, I'm in the medical field, and your Rolfer seems like a flake, and mild scoliosis in and of itself is NOT a painful condition, just my two cents.

Stacy
 
Stacy..
Thanks. Yeah, I stretch all throughout the day and have made it a point to educate myself on ergonomics and everything else my problem COULD BE.
Just want to know WHAT IT IS. you are correct about mild scoliosis, which is why I am finally going to a specialist. I called today and made an appt. for a month from now..which is a long time, but I have been living with this for 2 years now, so one month isn't long at all.

The chronic pain is really starting to effect all aspects of my life in a really negetive way. This is why I am so concerned with a reason why. I have to use a heating pad when I sit at work and now have a rash..similar to burn scars..on my back that will only go away when I stop with the heating pad. Can't until I get help!! I have really crappy insurance, which also doesn't help.

I am going to stop with the rolfer for awhile..atleast until I see this spine specialist. At this rate, I will have to take out a second mortgage to afford him!!

I did Karen Voight Pure and Simple Stretch today, and it really doesn't even help. It would be uplifting if something actually helped, but nothing seems to. I think I just need to be something like a construction worker full time!!!

Thanks for your concern, but at this point I have tried almost everything and am really angry and just want a diagnosis. Maybe I will never get one, and eventually I might have to go back to my rolfer, but I will try. Thanks again..Janice
 
Hi, Janice. I was Rolfed and I loved it. My Rolpher charged 95 a session and I thought that was alot! Anyway, you don't sound as if you are too inflexible and, while increasing stretching is great, I would not decrease my cardio nor give up strength training because they are so important to a fit lifestyle. At times, I do Yoga in place of strength work but I have found that I need to go back to strength work to see real muscle mass increases. I do love yoga and I have a yoga tape which makes me feel as if I have strength trained particularly in the shoulders and triceps. It is Aerobic Yoga by Tracy Rich and Ganga White and it is very intense. I like to use it in conjunction with weight training and cardio. I stretch frequently, mostly after strength training with some yoga and sometimes before bed after a canldlelit bubble bath! Here's a link to a website which offers some great yoga tapes: http://www.whitelotus.org Since you are experiencing back woes, have you considered doing more core strengthening exercises? Strong abs protect the back from injury. Whatever, you decide, keeps searcing until you find something that works for you! Good luck!

Bobbi http://www.plaudersmilies.de/chicken.gif Chick's Rule!
 
Hi Janice. I don't know anything about Rolfing but I do have mild scoliosis and sometimes have back pain. I'm also a mesomorph (but do gain fat on my abs & back). I don't want to make contrary advice to your professionals' opinions. I do think that no cardio is probably not a good idea especially since you enjoy it. One thing I have noticed (and read in Yoga Journal as well), is things like running and other forms of cardio, without lots of stretching, tend to tighten our hamstrings. And, tight hamstrings can really effect the rest of your body and how you move. In fact, many people injure their backs when they are doing forward stretches because their hamstrings are too tight and they don't move with enough caution. So, perhaps, that's where your Rolfer got the no cardio recommendation. Similarly, all the gym workouts can really tighten up our muscles. I never used to do more than say 5 minutes of stretching at a time and never noticed any problems. Occasionally, I"d have back pain but didn't really know why. But, I started doing yoga, pilates and ballet (well, New York City Ballet tape) and that's when I realized: hey I'm tight and muscle bound. Now, I try to focus on doing at least 3-4 one hour workouts a week that focus on yoga, pilates (lots of stretching) or ballet stretches. And, when I do my other exercise tapes, I hold the stretches much longer than the tape instructor does. If I go for a run or go to the gym, I make an effort to do at least 15 minutes of stretching after my workout. I've noticed I don't have back pain (unless I push myself too much in a Cobra yoga pose). I feel much better; and, I spend about 12 hours a day sitting (unfortunately, I commute 3-4 hours a day to a yucky desk job. sigh.). I know a lot of people don't bother stretching and perhaps that's okay for them, for now, but, I think it really is an important (but neglected) part of our lives. My entire family works out (my brother is a fitness model and works in the sports pharmaceutical industry) but not one of them stretches properly. Somehow, I believe this extra time and effort will benefit us when we are older. Keep working at your quest of ridding yourself of back pain. Good luck!
 
Hi Janice. I don't know anything about Rolfing but I do have mild scoliosis and sometimes have back pain. I'm also a mesomorph (but do gain fat on my abs & back). I don't want to make contrary advice to your professionals' opinions. I do think that no cardio is probably not a good idea especially since you enjoy it. One thing I have noticed (and read in Yoga Journal as well), is things like running and other forms of cardio, without lots of stretching, tend to tighten our hamstrings. And, tight hamstrings can really effect the rest of your body and how you move. In fact, many people injure their backs when they are doing forward stretches because their hamstrings are too tight and they don't move with enough caution. So, perhaps, that's where your Rolfer got the no cardio recommendation. Similarly, all the gym workouts can really tighten up our muscles. I never used to do more than say 5 minutes of stretching at a time and never noticed any problems. Occasionally, I"d have back pain but didn't really know why. But, I started doing yoga, pilates and ballet (well, New York City Ballet tape) and that's when I realized: hey I'm tight and muscle bound. Now, I try to focus on doing at least 3-4 one hour workouts a week that focus on yoga, pilates (lots of stretching) or ballet stretches. And, when I do my other exercise tapes, I hold the stretches much longer than the tape instructor does. If I go for a run or go to the gym, I make an effort to do at least 15 minutes of stretching after my workout. I've noticed I don't have back pain (unless I push myself too much in a Cobra yoga pose). I feel much better; and, I spend about 12 hours a day sitting (unfortunately, I commute 3-4 hours a day to a yucky desk job. sigh.). I know a lot of people don't bother stretching and perhaps that's okay for them, for now, but, I think it really is an important (but neglected) part of our lives. My entire family works out (my brother is a fitness model and works in the sports pharmaceutical industry) but not one of them stretches properly. Somehow, I believe this extra time and effort will benefit us when we are older. Keep working at your quest of ridding yourself of back pain. Good luck!
 
Hi Janice. I don't know anything about Rolfing but I do have mild scoliosis and sometimes have back pain. I'm also a mesomorph (but do gain fat on my abs & back). I don't want to make contrary advice to your professionals' opinions. I do think that no cardio is probably not a good idea especially since you enjoy it. One thing I have noticed (and read in Yoga Journal as well), is things like running and other forms of cardio, without lots of stretching, tend to tighten our hamstrings. And, tight hamstrings can really effect the rest of your body and how you move. In fact, many people injure their backs when they are doing forward stretches because their hamstrings are too tight and they don't move with enough caution. So, perhaps, that's where your Rolfer got the no cardio recommendation. Similarly, all the gym workouts can really tighten up our muscles. I never used to do more than say 5 minutes of stretching at a time and never noticed any problems. Occasionally, I"d have back pain but didn't really know why. But, I started doing yoga, pilates and ballet (well, New York City Ballet tape) and that's when I realized: hey I'm tight and muscle bound. Now, I try to focus on doing at least 3-4 one hour workouts a week that focus on yoga, pilates (lots of stretching) or ballet stretches. And, when I do my other exercise tapes, I hold the stretches much longer than the tape instructor does. If I go for a run or go to the gym, I make an effort to do at least 15 minutes of stretching after my workout. I've noticed I don't have back pain (unless I push myself too much in a Cobra yoga pose). I feel much better; and, I spend about 12 hours a day sitting (unfortunately, I commute 3-4 hours a day to a yucky desk job. sigh.). I know a lot of people don't bother stretching and perhaps that's okay for them, for now, but, I think it really is an important (but neglected) part of our lives. My entire family works out (my brother is a fitness model and works in the sports pharmaceutical industry) but not one of them stretches properly. Somehow, I believe this extra time and effort will benefit us when we are older. Keep working at your quest of ridding yourself of back pain. Good luck!
 
[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jun-02-02 AT 08:25AM (Est)[/font][p]Hi Janice. I don't know anything about Rolfing but I do have mild scoliosis and sometimes have back pain. I'm also a mesomorph (but do gain fat on my abs & back). I don't want to make contrary advice to your professionals' opinions. I do think that no cardio is probably not a good idea especially since you enjoy it. One thing I have noticed (and read in Yoga Journal as well), is things like running and other forms of cardio, without lots of stretching, tend to tighten our hamstrings. And, tight hamstrings can really effect the rest of your body and how you move. In fact, many people injure their backs when they are doing forward stretches because their hamstrings are too tight and they don't move with enough caution. So, perhaps, that's where your Rolfer got the no cardio recommendation. Similarly, all the gym workouts can really tighten up our muscles. I never used to do more than say 5 minutes of stretching at a time and never noticed any problems. Occasionally, I"d have back pain but didn't really know why. But, I started doing yoga, pilates and ballet (well, New York City Ballet tape) and that's when I
realized: hey I'm tight and muscle bound. Now, I try to focus on doing at least 3-4 one hour workouts a week that focus on yoga, pilates (lots of stretching) or ballet stretches. And, when I do my other exercise tapes, I hold the stretches much longer than the tape instructor does. If I go for a run or go to the gym, I make an effort to do at least 15 minutes of stretching after my workout. I've noticed I don't have back pain (unless I push myself too much in a Cobra yoga pose). I feel much better; and, I spend about 12 hours a day sitting (unfortunately, I commute 3-4 hours a day to a yucky desk job. sigh.). I know a lot of people don't bother stretching and perhaps that's okay for them, for now, but, I think it really is an important (but neglected) part of our lives. My entire family works out (my brother is a fitness model and works in the sports pharmaceutical industry) but not one of them stretches properly. Somehow, I believe this extra time and effort will benefit us when we are older. Keep working at your quest of ridding yourself of back pain. Good luck! p.s. don't be angry - we all suffer from various disorders and problems that other people, doing the same thing, don't. Everyone has different issues with their bodies and their health.
 
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