LauraMax
Cathlete
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that, b/c I find it absolutely outrageous.
Deb, I'd go for cage free if it'd be more affordable. Oddly with all the options we have in my area, this stuff is just impossible to find!
How do you afford free range?
- Thread starter LauraMax
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I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that, b/c I find it absolutely outrageous.
Deb, I'd go for cage free if it'd be more affordable. Oddly with all the options we have in my area, this stuff is just impossible to find!
Well, I agree with you. AND. Tofu is wayyy cheaper and all soybeans are pretty much "free range." And "cage free!" (and the organic type is STILL affordable - and so are beans, nuts, seeds, and all my other happy protein sources...). It's worth considering adding some of these in place of animal proteins if you're on a budget.
hiitdogs
Cathlete
Free range and organic products are not more affordable because it costs a lot more money to feed the chicken real food, not cram 20,000 chicken in a small cage and not pump them full of hormones, antibiotics and drugs.
People keep asking for cheaper products but seem to forget that in order to get that companies will cut corners. Something's gotta give! And I guess the old saying is true here as well - you get what you pay for.
Personally, I'd rather eat high quality food without additional hormones and antibiotics but less of it. To me, in the long run it is a lot more expensive to pay with my healh - and / or medical bills. I realize though that some people don't think it makes a difference. I think it does and I also believe that a lot of our health problems these days are because of what we put in our mouth.
As to what another poster said about tofu. I don't eat chicken anymore but if given the choice between an non-organic chicken breast and tofu (ethical reasons aside - purely health related reasons), I'd pick the chicken breast. Tofu is highly processed food, it is far from all organic and healthy even if the package claims it. Soy not only contains high amounts of phytic acid, it's also highly mucus-forming and is also implicated in breast cancer. http://www.naturalnews.com/025513_soy_food_soybeans.html
Laura, have you checked out this website? http://www.greenpeople.org/OrganicMeat.html It gives links to where you can buy organic meat online. Maybe worth checking out.
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LauraMax
Cathlete
pixiesis
Cathlete
Hi catr, us 'vegpeople' know that already. But ethical vegans/vegetarians take their beliefs seriously, and the veggie position seems quite appropriate to mention in this discussion, especially since Laura is looking for cheap and ethical options. The few posters who gently said that Laura might consider a more vegetarian diet don't need to be chastised for politely chiming in. I don't think Laura is offended and if she is she knows how to stand up for herself!
Imagine our position. Should we keep silent about our deeply held beliefs because we are a minority? What would you do in a similar situation? If you believe that something is wrong, isn't is unethical to silently condone it in others? I'm not saying we have the right to be abusive or rude, but stating our position, when appropriate, is really okay, isn't it?
Imagine our position. Should we keep silent about our deeply held beliefs because we are a minority? What would you do in a similar situation? If you believe that something is wrong, isn't is unethical to silently condone it in others? I'm not saying we have the right to be abusive or rude, but stating our position, when appropriate, is really okay, isn't it?
lrayburn
Cathlete
Prices have not gone down because it is not a supply-demand issue but rather an issue of higher overhead costs, lower production per unit area and externalized costs. In fact, as demand rises we are seeing an increase in prices until supply grows to meat that demand. In time, that will happen but it hasn't happened yet. You can't just jump in and out of the farming business.
While food costs have risen, we in the US still spend far less of our income on a percentage basis on food than people in other parts of the world. We have an ag subsidy system that supports our commodity growers (corn, soy, etc) making prices for those goods artificially lower and thereby making the concentrated animal feeding systems possible. However, there are a lot of externalized costs there (we are not paying true cost of concentrates for feed use, environmental impact, health impacts including antibiotic resistance and development of resistant or virulent strains of salmonella and E. coli due to concentrate feeding and antibiotic use) that are not being paid at the grocery store but rather through our taxation, health care system and environmental costs.
Sustainable farming systems result in lower production per unit area so overhead costs are higher. Organic meat production requires feeding of organic feeds which are higher in cost. Animals grow more slowly because they are not being fed antibiotics whose main use is not to prevent disease but actually to speed animal growth.
I'm not pointing fingers at anyone, I'm just explaining why I WOULD expect organic or free range meat to cost 2x to 3x what conventional does. (5x no but that is probably a factor of the store you are shopping at.)
That said, go to your local healthfood store and ask for a recommendation for area farmers who sell direct. Costs are generally comparable to grocery store prices or no more than 2x. Your local farmers market may not sell meat but be able to point you to people who do. For some, you actually buy the animal while it is alive and they will have it processed for you, that avoids some of the legal issues. Go to the farmers market for eggs. I have yet to pay more than $2.50 for eggs at a farmers market and they are far superior to anything 'organic' or free range at the grocery store.
LauraMax, what part of the country are you in? CSAs (community supported agriculture programs) are starting to offer meat in more areas as well.
Lisa
LauraMax
Cathlete
Hi catr, us 'vegpeople' know that already. But ethical vegans/vegetarians take their beliefs seriously, and the veggie position seems quite appropriate to mention in this discussion, especially since Laura is looking for cheap and ethical options. The few posters who gently said that Laura might consider a more vegetarian diet don't need to be chastised for politely chiming in. I don't think Laura is offended and if she is she knows how to stand up for herself!
I wish I knew what makes you think that about me.
jacmar, the $15 split breast was at King's.
I do love the King's though, even though their meat prices aren't very competitive. Awesome produce section. Many free-range/humanely-raised/grass-fed producers will ship. Sometimes you need to buy in bulk to make it worthwhile. Eat Wild is a good resource for finding regional farmers/producers. http://www.eatwild.com/
Get to know your local farmers. All I've met have been very communicative through phone or email and very willing to work with customers.
ITA with Carola in that the quality is worth the extra expense.
Get to know your local farmers. All I've met have been very communicative through phone or email and very willing to work with customers.
ITA with Carola in that the quality is worth the extra expense.
gettingfitmom
Cathlete
I want to buy free range. I really do. But the only chicken I could find at my market was a split breast for $15.
Now clearly the poultry business is, well, a business, but don't these people supposedly believe in what they're trying to sell? I'm pretty sure they're making some serious profit here. If there was any altruism involved at all, wouldn't they cut back on their profits a bit to make it more affordable?
I'm really annoyed by this. I eat an awful lot of chicken, & there's no way I can afford free range if this is what I have to pay. Where does everyone else buy it? I already have to stop at 2 grocery stores a week, do I have to add a 3rd?
This has always been my issue w/free range & organics (well, more so w/free range, I have some other issues w/organics). This stuff'll never catch on until it becomes affordable.
My one neighbor has a dairy farm and every year she raises chicks to be used for "cooking" in the fall. I will buy a dozen for so from her and freeze them and I use the thru the winter. Very cheap! I know this is not a solution for everyone, but may be worth looking into. Good luck!
Lastchance09
Cathlete
I think you should read this link prior to plunking down the extra money.
http://www.betterhealthnews.com/2008/03/06/free-range-or-cage-free-is-there-a-difference/
There are also links to other articles.
http://www.betterhealthnews.com/2008/03/06/free-range-or-cage-free-is-there-a-difference/
There are also links to other articles.
kathryn
Cathlete
Neither "cage free" nor "free range" actually mean much.
The chickens still could be (and often are) crammed into tight quarters, are debeaked and not treated the way living beings should be.
http://www.goveg.com/organic_freerange.asp
http://www.cok.net/lit/freerange.php
Your best bet is small, local farmers. Those whose farms you could actually visit to see how the birds are kept.
The chickens still could be (and often are) crammed into tight quarters, are debeaked and not treated the way living beings should be.
http://www.goveg.com/organic_freerange.asp
http://www.cok.net/lit/freerange.php
Your best bet is small, local farmers. Those whose farms you could actually visit to see how the birds are kept.
RunnerGirl
Cathlete
Carola,
Thanks so much for that green people link. I found a delivery that has much better prices than my grocery store and not a very high delivery charge! Thanks again!
Thanks so much for that green people link. I found a delivery that has much better prices than my grocery store and not a very high delivery charge! Thanks again!
netsnotes16
Cathlete
I usually get the 'natural and fresh' chicken from Food Lion, especially when it is on sale (right after 8:00 Mass, all meats are reduced). It is a step below organic and free range but doesn't have that chicken smell. And it tastes better, even my family notices the difference, I don't have to season it 1/2 to death. (sorry about the pun)
