Friends' marriage is on the rocks...advice please.

4

40something

Guest
Hello all. I realize this is a fitness forum but this is the only website I visit anymore so I'm going to take advantage of the open forum and ask for help here. I apologize in advance if this topic is inappropriate here but I would greatly appreciate advice on this.

Okay, we have some friends that we have known for years, kids growing up together that sort of thing so we see this couple often. Her H is a workaholic and has his own business where he spends countless hours many times not coming home until 10:00 at night...maybe even 2 in the morning because he's working in his business (which happens to be a few blocks from their house). Okay, the wife works too at a very stressful job and is trying to handle all the chores at home plus running kids to sports, doc appts etc. because her H is always at work and won't help out.

Now, I know the first thing some of you will say is...she should have put her foot down long ago concerning him not being an active part of the family...I have been telling her to do this for the last few years as his worktime has stretched and stretched into these unGodly hours. My H also is self-employed and there are times I have to snap him back into reality that he needs to be here for the kids, and me, and participate in what's going on. But, that's water under the bridge now for this couple.

So anyway, I knew they had had a big argument a couple of weeks ago but I haven't been alone with her to find out what happened, how things were going, etc. Well, last night I see her and she just unloads to me that her H admits to having a 'female friend' that he has been seeing...just because he needs someone to talk to...but there's no sex involved. He says he doesn't want a divorce, he still loves her, wants to stay together, but he also wants to keep his 'friend' because when he's with her he doesn't have to listen to wife's problems at work, problems at home with the kids, being nagged about things he's not getting done around the house, etc.

Basically he wants his cake and eat it too. Now, the wife is wanting to work things out, believes this relationship with the other woman is platonic and is now talking about quitting her job so she can be more available for her H when he needs something. See, he told her that he isn't getting enough attention at home...the home he is never at. And that he thinks she should quit her professional career to be with him in his business. Now, I did tell her that no way should she quit working right now until they get their problems resolved, one way or the other. She was going to see about taking a leave of absence from her work which is a much better approach given that he already has some chick on the side and now he thinks she should quit her job...and then what if he decides to walk out and now she's left unemployed with two kids still at home.

So, this brings me to why I posted here in the first place. I don't know what advice to give and I feel totally helpless in this. My friend is asking me for help, guidance and I don't know what to say. I would love to tell her that her H is a pig for putting all the blame on her and tell him to get a lawyer...a good lawyer because she's an attorney and knows plenty of divorce lawyers. But I also know she's in a very delicate state of mind right now and the last thing she probably needs to hear is what a heel her H has been. She is physically ill over all the stress of finding this out, she can't eat without being sick, she is so pale and smoking non-stop and no wonder given what she's been hit with. I did ask if they were going to see a counselor and she said she also suggested it to her H and he said she can go if she wants to but he's not going to talk to anyone about their problems. I did tell her she should still see someone herself whether he'll go or not. And again, he says he wants to work out their problems, keep the babe on the side, but he won't do counseling?? So, is this marriage doomed already?

If anyone could recommend a website where my friend could talk to other people going through the same thing, I would appreciate that too. I'm going to meet with her tonight to talk this through some more and I'm just nervous about what to say, what not to say. One of my sister's had a cheating H who kept telling my sister that he and his chick were just friends, nothing sexual, and my sister believed that for over a year before she finally woke up the day she found the two of them in bed together. We tried telling her all along that he was making a fool of her and he was having an affair with this broad but she refused to listen and when the truth finally hit her she had a breakdown and it was really bad for her. I don't want that situation for my friend. So what do you say to a good friend who has just told you what I've said here and is asking for your help, advice on what to do?
 
Come on you guys...33 people have read this thread but no one has any advice to offer? I guess that should make me feel a little better for being absolutely mortified and dumbfounded when I was told all this. Hasn't anyone else been in this difficult position with a close friend or family member?
 
Okay, here goes. I wouldn't do anything except to be there for her when she needs to vent and to support her when the truth finally hits her. That's when she'll need you most. She'll need a LOT of support then, and she'll need it for a long time.

Your friend will have to see the truth for herself, in her own time, when she's ready to deal with it. This probably means she'll see it a little bit at a time, as she becomes capable of handling each small truth. If you try to show her the truth before she's ready, she will very likely to be more angry with you than with them, and she may even begin to resent you. The old "kill the messenger" thing. Just my 2 cents.

Shari
 
Wow, that is a tragedy. i think the wisest course of action is to not take sides and keep encouraging them to get professional support.

I personally feel that the marriage is still solvable but it will take a great deal of work.

Have her read "The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands". I've read it and in my personal opinion it is right on the money. Men are simple creatures whose needs are simply met. I do not mean that men are stupid, less than intelligent or in any way inferior to women. Their natures are designed differently. I have applied these principles to my marriage and they work great. My husband read the book too, he loved it.

I'm not saying that the book is a magic bullet that will instantly undo years of upset and problems. I assert that it will help her understand why her husband has a friend helping him and possibly explain why he turns to work for comfort.

It can't hurt.

I also think that Dr Phils book "Relationship Rescue" is a good resource.

My two cents.

Danna
 
Ok. I've only been married a year but if I were in this predicament I would tell my friend that:

1. Men rarely have just female "friends" and she needs to try and find out what's really going on - even if she doesn't want to know.

2. If he's refusing counselling then he's basically giving up on their marriage. She should make it an ultimatum - counselling or divorce (seperation).

3. He's the one with the ridiculously long hours (I don't know what kind of business has one working until 2am but I'd be very suspicious of that), he needs to deligate some of his work to another employee - How can they have a relationship if he's never home?

4. The female friend has to go.

It's very hard to tell your friends what they don't want to hear but she will be greatful for it in the long run. I have a friend that is brutally honest at times but I love her for it because I know that she's being just that, honest.

iVillage.com has a bunch of message boards and I believe I saw a marriage/divorce board.

Good luck - I empathize with you :(
 
You have really gotten a lot of great advice here.

It's going to take some time for your friend to process what is going on, but, if she has any self respect (sorry to be so blunt), she will realize H is an ass.

Just be there for her but try to stay neutral. You never know how this is going to turn out...

Edited to say, if this was my marriage, it would be "doomed already". If he's behaving like this once and trying to justify it, he will probably do it again.

Your friend is lucky to have you:)
 
Shari...you are so right because that is what happened with my sister. We all kept telling her to open her eyes to the truth about her H and she just refused to see it. That is why I was so scared to say much to my friend the other day...I don't want to make that mistake twice. We all say if our spouses were cheating we would want someone to tell us...in reality that isn't the case. Especially after years of marriage and raising children. I can't even really believe this guy capable of having an affair either so I can see where his wife is wanting to believe he isn't or just can't believe he is to save her own sanity.

Danna...thanks so much for the book recommendation's. I should have thought of Dr. Phil myself, I knew he had written a book on relationships/marriage.

This is one of the hardest situation's I've ever been in. And staying neutral is going to be very difficult because we've been friends for years so I know alot about their lives. I know the struggles she goes through every day working full-time and having a family and house to take care of without any help from him. And then when he decides he isn't getting what he needs at home...he seeks it out elsewhere and justifies his action's by blaming her, as if her plate isn't already over-flowing. This is really what torks me...just his attitude of being an absentee parent/husband because it's conveinent for his work, but now he wants someone to talk to so don't hire a maid to help with the work at home or offer to run the kids to sports/appts so the wife can have some extra time...no, let's just go get a girlfriend because that's alot less work.

Ack, it is these feelings that I have to get under control.
 
curlyq...that's my viewpoint too just from watching 3 of my sister's marriages fall apart. My friends H is telling her not to 'pressure him' and that he won't give up the 'female friend' because he needs someone to talk to? What a slap in the face this is to her. Like she said to me...does he go to this woman and talk about our marriage and our kids and she doesn't know who this other woman is. She asked him and he won't tell her.

As for his business hours...yes it is ridiculous and his wife should have stopped that crap before it lasted this long. Actually, him having an affair never occured to me but drug abuse did just because his wife has been saying for at least a year how moody he is, how tired (needless to say) he is all the time so that got me to thinking that the only way he can carry on like that is using drugs to get him going in the morning...and all day long. He's in a business where he builds things so he can work 24 hours a day if he wants to because the work is always there. And he justifies these long hours by saying the more he produces the more money they make. And my H and I have driven by his business at 1 in the morning and we can see him in there working through the big windows in the store front. He's insane as far as work goes and he's told his wife he will not slow down his pace at work. And he seems to think that if she quits her job and comes to work for him that their problems will be solved. He won't hire an employee because he doens't want the headaches of insurance, workman's comp. etc. And...to a point I can relate to that as my H has 2 employees and being a small business we pay so much out for insurance on those employees that it's just ridiculous. But at the same time if you're going to work 18 hours a day...how productive are you really? He has to be making mistakes and that costs money too. Like I said, when he started working these ridiculous hours his wife should have put her foot down then because it has just spiraled out of control now and he's never at home, never goes to anything the kids are in/doing. So, that's why I fully expected her to tell me she discovered he has a drug habit...not a woman on the side.

Candi...he claims he's been seeing this woman for a couple of months now...just to talk.
 
I'm no expert when it comes to relationships, but maybe I can offer some advise what to tell your friend. Let your friend know that she is a whole half of this relationship and her husband is an equal half. It's unfair for her husband to never be home, not taking responsibility to be there to support his wife and kids and take part in their lives. And for him to say he doesn't want to talk to someone else about their problems but go and talk to this female friend about everything is just hypocritical. From what you've said I think they REALLY should talk to a counselor about their marriage, why he is talking to a friend and not his own wife. He seems to be very unhappy with things in his life, not feeling supported by his wife, so talking to a female friend to get support, but then your friend is also not feeling supported by her husband. When you really love someone and want to work things out there has to be compromise. He can't expect her to drop her whole career for him just like she can't expect him to drop his life for her. They need to meet in the middle. They need to talk out the problems, whether with a counselor or by themselves, as calmly as possible (yelling won't solve anything) and really listen to what eachother has to say. Hopefully they'll meet in the middle, but it may take a lot of time and a lot of work.

As for this female friend... she may be just that now, a friend, but if he continues to feel like she is the only one he can talk to, then it will probably progress into something else.

Tell your friend she needs to think about what is best for HER, if she doesn't really care about her work but really wants to be with her family then maybe quitting work would make her happy. But if she enjoys her work and feels accomplishment, success and satisfaction from it, then she needs to let her husband know that, and be willing to compromise on other things (and vise versa with him).

I wish you luck in your talk with your friend tonight. It's really hard talking to people you really care about about these kind of things because you want to be supportive but maybe offer advise they may not want to hear. You know the situation better than I do (obviously) so just use your best judgement. Even if all you can offer is a listening ear and a hug, know that your friend will get comfort out of that.

Good luck
 
Thanks Kandace. You're thinking just what I'm thinking. Apparently these two have been 'discussing' their marital problems for the last 2 weeks and he refuses to go to counseling, refuses to cut back his working hours, refuses to stop seeing the woman on the side...but he doesn't want a divorce and he still loves his wife. Either he's a total idiot or he thinks his wife is. I don't see either, and so does his wife, how they can work through this if he refuses to compromise on anything. ESPECIALLY saying he won't stop seeing this woman. How do you fix a marriage if you won't give up your girlfriend? And besides, I really don't see how or why he wants his wife to work in his business. This isn't something that most women would want to do because it's very dirty work. She already does all of his bookwork, after spending all day in court she goes to his business in the evenings and works on the computer for him! I really don't know what else she can give to him that she isn't giving already.
 
This is a very tough situation that your friend is in, but I think that you are also in a tough situation too in tryign to help her. Bravo to you for being a good friend and supporting her!

I recently went through a very rough situation and had some very good friends to help me through it (thank god). Three friends knew about it and they each had very different approaches. I can tell you that while going through it, the best approach was the friend that talked about it when I brought it up and wanted to talk (b/c sometimes it is nice to talk about other things and just have some girl time or blow off steam) and gave input but not pressure. I don't think that suporting your friend or even giving her your opinion is bad, so long as she knows that you are there for her no matter what she decides to do and that you will support any decision. That is the most important thing for her to hear. And then internally, I would tell you to be sure that you aren't giving her any pressure about what to do or how to react. One of my friends gave me so much pressure about what I "should" do that I stopped talking to her about it for a while. She didn't mean to but she was very certain of her opinion and wanted what was best (in her eyes) for me. In the end she was trying to prevent further hurt, so I appreciate her, but I couldn't deal with her pressure on top of everything else.

Another thing that I would encourage your friend to do is to seek counseling of her own, even if her hubby decides later to attend marriage counseling. Right now, she needs support and help sorting this out and the counseling for her without him will do that. The counselor can also give her some ideas about how to handle his not wanting to go to counseling and alternatives.

And don't let her quit her job! If nothing else, it is an outlet for her and a chance to get her head on something else. And she worked so hard to get where she is right now (I am a lawyer so I know her battle!) and shoudl not let that go

I don't think that it is impossible for a guy to have a female friend. I have BEEN a female friend to many men. In fact, most of my best friends have been guys. But when he hides her and is not willing to shrae about her, etc. that worries me too. Here's a thought...why doesn't she find out more about this friend? Maybe even ask to meet her? I am not sure what he has told or how he reacts to her wanting to know more or meet this person, but I think that it is only fair that if he is talking to her about private things and using her as an outlet that he make your friend feel more comfortable about this friendship. And if she knows her hubby very well, she will know by his reaction what the truth to this friendship really is.


Good luck!
 
A few things come to mind when looking at this from a distance-

He is asking his wife to support both sides of their relationship so he can have a different relationship with someone else. Whether it plutonic or not, relationships require energy. He is giving his energy to work and other person...while she funels hers to work and kids and him.

His hours got longer because he wanted to be somewhere else other than home. Whether he thinks he has excuses cause she nags etc.and whether she buys into it as her fault ..he would rather be somewhere else.

I would try to pull my friend out of the soup so she can look at from a distance. Help her focus on her...what she wants, what she can realistically do...stop jumping the hurdles he is setting up to win the race. her focus is on him and her fear of what happens if she loses her marriage (yes very scary) but she needs not to get stuck in the trap of chasing after the string because it is being pulled...but whether the string is WORTH chasing...help her identify what her motivatiors are for her actions...

Eventually her doors will open and she will start processing what is this about ...why would she want this...etc...it just takes time...Keep helping her focus in on herself and not him!! What makes you want this relationship...is the relationship supporting your needs, what do you want for your life, Where do you picture this going for YOU. Is this what you want from marriage. Why do you feel not worthy of time and attention. Why do you accept less...

She is smart...help her build her case for HER...turn the tide of her chasing him and let him be...If he wants her, he will put the effort ..if not..well she needs to listen to his actions not what she wants to hear!

Hope this helps...Wish her luck
Samantha..
 
To Kandace

Kandace,

I just visited Nicky's page, and I have tears in my eyes as I write this. That sweet, brave little angel--both of you are!!! My heart goes out to you.

Shari
 
RE: To Kandace

A question that my counselor asked me that helped me see the light may help.

She asked me if I loved my husband. I answered yes. She then asked me why. I couldn't come up with a good answer.

Another good question. What are you getting out of the relationship versus what are you putting into the relationship?

The thing is, these are purely logical questions that require non emotional answers for insight. I don't think your friend is ready to look at things from a non emotional viewpoint right now.

It sounds to me like he is all about him and she is all about him. He's got it made!
 
Sounds like she's already put WAY more into this relationship than he has. If he wants to save their marriage, it's up to him to go with her for joint counseling. Once there, any counselor with half a brain is going to ask him to cut back his working hours, give up - at least temporarily - friendships with the opposite sex, and spend time working through exercises to help them reconnect.

Doesn't sound to me like he's willing to do any of this. I understand you're trying to be fair and not influence her unduly, but do you really want to see her continue in a relationship this poor?

I agree if he's unwilling to get joint counseling, she should see someone by herself... someone who can help her see this relationship for the unbalanced and unhealthy situation it is... and then help her work through the split up and recovery period.
 
Whatever this lady does, she oughtta get herself to her gynecologist and have a full-blown STD test taken. And she'd better insist on condoms for every subsequent encounter with Hubby-Do.

I've recently been in the original poster's situation; it was the male half who expected my husband and me to essentially "divorce" his wife as he was doing - AND to enthusiastically embrace some new la-la he'd gotten involved with (prior even to filing for divorce). I got a scathing, profane message on my home voice-mail a few hours after I'd had a conversation with Wife and let her know that Male Half was involved in a new relationship (and was expecting us to socialize with her).

If other friends' marriages get in trouble, I'm running like the wind. It's tempting to think friends can help a troubled marriage, but they can't.

A-Jock
 
Good Grief. I've been so upset by all of this that the sexual end of it never sank in. Thanks for pointing that out, A-Jock.
 
I agree with Aquajock. It's better to keep out of her marriage even though you are concerned. She's gonna do what she's gonna do. She'll eventually figure it out on her own. Sometimes butting in makes matters worse. I guess I have to ask you, even though she is anonymous, does she know you put her problem on the internet? Somehow I could never do that to a friend. Even though this is anonymous, I guess it would boil down to a trust issue.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Our Newsletter

Get awesome content delivered straight to your inbox.

Top