Endurance/Heavy strength

[jengollf]

Discovering Cathe workouts has changed everything for me. In the past I did a combination of fitness programs and then mixing things up. For instance, I would do ChaLean Extreme, then P90X, then TurboFire, then PeakFit Challenge, then Insanity, then hybrids of them all, then mixing in other workout DVDs I love by Bob Harper and Jillian Michaels, etc. Then I discovered Cathe and that is all I do now.

Then Xtrain comes along and I lift heavier than I ever have before... until STS--and I am only in Mesocycle 1! Here is my quandary. In the past, I did rotations either by what the program dictated or when I created my own rotation, by the month. I never sat and worried about whether a strength workout could be broken down into heavy/endurance/moderate--I just made sure I had strength work every week and had 48 hours of recovery between muscle groups.

Well, my thinking has changed. So now, I'm trying to determine rotations long term--over a year at least. I would hate to do all of this work with STS and then lose strength gains because I stopped working out the same way. But I also like variety and changing things up. And I do love endurance workouts.

So my questions is--how does everyone structure their rotations long term? Do you go heavy one month and endurance the next? I'm doing the 5.5 month rotation for STS and when I finish, I am going to put together a month-long rotation using Cathe's Pyramid workouts as a base. But after that, I can't decide where to go, how to mix it up. I know I will want to do STS again, but not immediately. However, I'm trying to map out at least a rough idea of how I will structure my strength work for the next 6 months after I finish STS (then I think I will do STS again). I am thinking about doing a P90X2/Asylum hybrid.

Thoughts? Opinions? Suggestions?

 

[dbclark44]

Have you ever considered doing Cathe's rotations? She comes out with a new one each month with emphasis on different areas ie., strength, lower body, cardio. You can also download all of her previous rotations and check them out for yourself.

 

[bzbnmom]

Jengollf, I know what you mean, because I'm starting to think like you. After making the strength gains I would like to keep making forward progress and not regress. I was thinking about doing this 9 month rotation suggested by Cathe in the following post:

http://cathe.com/forum/f95/rotation-body-building-287493/

I'm thinking I'd like to start my very first round of STS this fall, only I might want to do the 5.5 month rotation to begin with. It's a very long term plan, but it does leave room for personal preferences and variety.

 

[nikkigiovanni]

I focus on a different meso each week. This week I focused on endurance, next week is moderate/hypertrophy, then the week after that, I'll be doing strength/heavy weight workouts. The fourth week is when I rest from weight workouts, then I start all over again. During rest week, I do cardio, yoga, barre, and pilates. I change things up more frequently from week to week because I don't want to take too much time off from either meso. Like you, I didn't think like this until I finished STS.

 

[jengollf]

Thanks everyone for your replies. Glad to see I am not the only one trying to figure this out.

dbclark44--yes, I have actually considered doing many of Cathe's rotations. In fact, I have created a folder for all of her rotations I am interested in trying. The only issue I have with those is that I want more structure long term in order to maintain (and increase) what I have achieved with STS. Most of her rotations wouldn't give me that if I just did one after the other. However, I am considering doing one for a month before doing a month of heavy lifting, then another of her rotations, and heavy lifting. Something like that. Trying to figure it out.

bzbnmom--thank you! I love that information! That is definitely helpful. Bookmarked! I am currently doing the 5.5 month STS rotation and loving it. I've got 3 more weeks of Meso 1. And yes, there is a lot of room for personal preference. I love being able to do any cardio I want. Plus, since I want to hit each muscle group twice per week, I do the STS workouts M, W & TH, then on Sat., I do whatever total body workout I want. Since Meso 1 is endurance, I do one of Cathe's endurance workouts. Meso 2 I have other plans!

nikkigiovanni--that's a great idea. I hadn't really considered varying it by week. That would be a new way to come back to STS--mixing it up in a different way.

 

[bzbnmom]

Nikkigiovanni, I am putting your ideas in my workout folder. I love your 4th week idea! Nice variety.

Since I want to hit each muscle group twice per week, I do the STS workouts M, W & TH, then on Sat., I do whatever total body workout I want. Since Meso 1 is endurance, I do one of Cathe's endurance workouts. Meso 2 I have other plans!

Jengollf, I'm taking notes on your method too. With the extra total body workout ... (and did I see another post of yours where you are doubling up on cardio on a day?) ... are you able to maintain this for so long? And yes, I can definitely see making each Meso a little different!

Geez, I was planning on starting STS in the fall, maybe I start sooner? lol

Wouldn't it be awesome if Cathe authored an in-depth workout book that would answer all of our questions and then some? ... with all the how-to's and why's of achieving various goals all in one handy volume.

 

[jengollf]

I do doubles 3 days a week--on my STS strength days I come home from work and do a cardio workout. I don't have any problem maintaining it. I've been doing it since I started STS, but I have also done it many times in the past and had no problem sticking to the plan. However, I generally do it for a specified amount of time. Usually 3 months or so, but with STS it will be 5.5 months. But I'll often go months without doing doubles. Or were you referring to the extra total body workout? I workout 6-7 days a week anyway, so doing another strength workout on Saturday is nothing new for me. I'm just making sure it is an endurance workout during meso 1.

I would love a book like that! There is probably one out there by someone. I just haven't found it. Actually I have read the last three New Rules of Lifting books and he does put forth strength programs in cycles similar to Cathe's mesocycles. I should read the last one again. I read it pre-STS, so I wasn't considering these things when I read it.

 

[bzbnmom]

Wow, I'm impressed! You are a powerhouse!! Wow ...

Thanks for the book title. I just placed a hold on the newest one from my library system.

 

[dbclark44]

I focus on a different meso each week. This week I focused on endurance, next week is moderate/hypertrophy, then the week after that, I'll be doing strength/heavy weight workouts. The fourth week is when I rest from weight workouts, then I start all over again. During rest week, I do cardio, yoga, barre, and pilates. I change things up more frequently from week to week because I don't want to take too much time off from either meso. Like you, I didn't think like this until I finished STS.

Love this idea! Hadn't considered doing STS that way. I will definitely be keeping this in mind.

 

[nckfitheart2009]

Undulating Rotation

Hi Jen,

For me the answer to maintaining STS result is an undulating rotation.

Cathe has recently designed few undulating rotation. One of them is 90 day xtrain/STS undulating rotation. Another option would be to design your own rotation consisting of 2 upper and 2 lower strength pure weight and cardio.
1x endurance, 1x heavy.

Example:

Monday Full lower body premix from High rep 40 minutes,if leaning out legs is one of the goal, double up this premix.
Tuesday Full upper body premix from High rep 40 minutes plus optional cardio premix 30 minutes.
Wednesday Tabatacise
Thursday Muscle Max or STS Total body
Friday All out Hiit extreme
Saturday Optional Squat rack plus Low impact challenge or any low impact cardio
Sunday off

Here is the link explaining training on undulation basis:

Cathe Friedrich - What is an Undulating Periodization Workout Program?.

I have just designed the mini day rotation and have not attempted it as yet. I have done one of cathe undulating rotation and I was happy.

Hope this help!

Great topic Jen

 

[jengollf]

Thanks Nathalie. I actually have done the Xtrain 90 day undulating rotation--right before STS. I loved it. I like the rotation structure you put together--I'll have to keep it in mind when I create mine.

I have mapped a little bit of what I'm going to do after STS. I'm going to do Cathe's March 13 low impact rotation (and substitute Xtrain Supercuts for one of the Afterburns and Xtrain All Out for Low Impact Step and one cycle workouts)--then a 7 week hybrid using P90X2 and Insanity Asylum. After that, I am considering using Cathe's Hardcore series as a base, but also including TTM, CF, Bob Harper's (non-Biggest Loser) workouts and some Rip:60 workouts.

After that... maybe another 30 day round of Xtrain followed by STS--the 3.5 month rotation this time. Its so hard to think that far ahead! I want a plan, but at the same time my thoughts/preferences are always changing. Plus, Cathe's new workouts will be out at some point (I of course have them on pre-order). Plus I can't stop thinking about Tapout XT 1 & 2.

It is fun though. I print out blank calendar sheets and have my rotation mapped out until November. I always have white out handy!

 

[nckfitheart2009]

Undulating Rotation

Thanks Nathalie. I actually have done the Xtrain 90 day undulating rotation--right before STS. I loved it. I like the rotation structure you put together--I'll have to keep it in mind when I create mine.

I have mapped a little bit of what I'm going to do after STS. I'm going to do Cathe's March 13 low impact rotation (and substitute Xtrain Supercuts for one of the Afterburns and Xtrain All Out for Low Impact Step and one cycle workouts)--then a 7 week hybrid using P90X2 and Insanity Asylum. After that, I am considering using Cathe's Hardcore series as a base, but also including TTM, CF, Bob Harper's (non-Biggest Loser) workouts and some Rip:60 workouts.

After that... maybe another 30 day round of Xtrain followed by STS--the 3.5 month rotation this time. Its so hard to think that far ahead! I want a plan, but at the same time my thoughts/preferences are always changing. Plus, Cathe's new workouts will be out at some point (I of course have them on pre-order). Plus I can't stop thinking about Tapout XT 1 & 2.

It is fun though. I print out blank calendar sheets and have my rotation mapped out until November. I always have white out handy!

Jen,

Though me and you like similar structures for rotation, you do inspire me cause you lift heavier! I will be getting in touch regarding that. Possibly by private messaging.

Planning well head is great, I can not agree more on that. Yes I am thinking of Tap out 1 and 2 as well. I am also considering trying Body beast and the upcoming T25 from Beachbody. We can not go wrong trying other instructors, Can we? I bet the try out would make us appreciate cathe's approach even better.

I have not tried P90 X at all, neither did i try Asylum. Any rotation from P90X2 and asylum sound intense.Asylum work agility abilities, am i right? Please let us know your feedback once you have completed this rotation.

Let me know if you need more in terms of rotation. I would be more than happy to add week 2,3 and 4 making a month undulating rotation to share. I prefer a month rotation. Glad you liked my structure.

All the best in your first STS round,

Take care,

 

[Viola1625]

Hi Jengollf! I just finished P90X2 and am doing a 1 month rotation of Cathe workouts before I do Asylum 1 (I've slightly restructured this so each workout is done once per week, as well as 1 power yoga workout, and 1 weekly rest day). After that I will do 1 month of LIS and then Asylum 2. Anyway, I think the P90X2 will add a completely different element to your fitness rotations! Each of the 3 phases are totally different in focus from each other (as opposed to the first P90X, where the split just changes but the focus is the same). I also love the rumble roller work, some of tonies warm up moves, and his cool down stretches - i still continue to implement them. I would highly recommend waiting to do a hybrid until you do each of them separately, though to really experience the benefits each program has to offer, and you will have a better idea of how you will need to customize it to your body and fitness needs.
My first run through X2 I stuck mostly to the schedule, but adjusted a few things (I did not use the bonus workouts). It's a 5 day per week program - I made it a 6 day by adding 1 day of outside HIIT running (this is actually my toughest cardio. I use various timers, go for about 1 hour and hack the rest of the day - it smokes my cardio (-; Also, in phase 1 and 3, I found I needed to pause the DVD for extra reps on some of the exercises (mainly lower body) to get a better burn, or because the exercise was really difficult to execute and I needed more practice ( push ups with feet on med ball and hands on stability ball - WOOSH). I also added 8 lb Dumbbells to much of Plyocide and added a Plyo block HIIT to the end - it seemed short on its own. I loved the yoga X2, but mostly use it for transition and recovery. During the program, and currently, I use the tough 90 minute Mark Blanchard stuff - I like the inverted arm balances, etc.
I will do it again with the bonus phase 2 workouts. This time, though, I will replace X2 base&back with Cathe's Leg workouts (one to go with each split). Base&back Is plyometric jumps alternated with pull-Ups. Its a good WO and My legs were worked because I did the Plyo with 10 lbs Dumbbells, but I'd rather use Cathe's more comprehensive LB routines. You get plenty of pull ups in the upper body workouts. X2 B&B will be used in a different rotation for me. Also, I will use TTM or CF rather than using Plyocide 2 months in a row. In phase 3, I will do the PAP once each, and do Cathe's Muscle Endurance (total body comprehensive non impact strength), and add an Insanity month 2 Max Interval workout (alternating a different one each week). Through each phase, I will keep the HIIT run. So, this is how I will supplement the program. There is a ton of plank work/ push - ups in Asylum, so for me,combining them would be too heavy on the upper body. Cathe's cardio/Plyo is more lower body focused and seems to balance the program out better for me. Using her leg routines will also be better for me. I'm actually supplementing asylum with a few of her things as well. Anyway, X2 was well worth it for me, and I had great results. Feel free to message if you have any questions.

 

[jengollf]

Nathalie--yes, body Beast has me intrigued, too. As well as Shaun T.s T25. I really like Shaun T, so I will probably get that one. I haven't done Asylum yet--though I've had it for a year and a half! I have done Insanity--which is Hiit/plyo/body weight strength. Very tough and very intense. From my understanding, Asylum takes it a step further and yes, uses agility training and more strength training with weights and bands--but still lots of Hiit/plyo.

Viola1625--thanks for the input, but I'm not really interested in doing the full P90X2 or Asylum rotations. I've done a lot of rotations and I'm kind of burned out on them. The program has to be special for me to put in the time for a rotation these days (Xtrain and STS qualify). I'm doing a shorter hybrid more to try out each workout, see which ones I like and will incorporate frequently. I've actually done the P90X 90 days twice and the Insanity 60 day program once--though I have come back to my favorite workouts in both programs frequently. But I don't do all of them anymore. Some I hate (Yoga X--HATE that workout; Max Recovery--LOATHE it). Others I love (Stretch X, Core Synergistics, Insanity Upper Body, Pure Cardio, Max Interval Circuit, Max Interval Sports) and do much more often than the others. That's the idea with P90X2 and Asylum. I want to do each workout at least once and repeat my favorites. That will take about 7 weeks. By the end I'll probably be subbing in workouts from Cathe and Insanity, too.

 

[Viola1625]

I am right with you on the long rotation burn out. I actually had some set up, but at this point I want to try some new things and not feel stuck to any program. I only recently discovered Cathe when I was looking for some lower body variety to go with the p90x programs and I ended up getting A TON of great new stuff here and am really loving the change! I may do more of the long rotations down the road, but right now, I'm liking 4 weeks on a rotation one week of active recovery/ transition, and then a new 4 week rotation. With the beach body stuff and my new cathe stuff I have put together some great combos and am excited to try them out - endless variety! Anyway, based on the workouts you mentioned, I think you will like the p90x2 workouts. They are VERY different and I learned a lot from them! Like I said, I love the rumble roller- it's the one thing that will relieve the DOMS for me! I'm hoping to like asylum, but I'm not going to be stuck in a month of something I don't like anymore, so if not I'll switch it up. BTW, thanks to some of your suggestions, I've picked up some workouts here I really enjoy! (-:

 

[embracinmyself]

Hi Jen,

For me the answer to maintaining STS result is an undulating rotation.

Cathe has recently designed few undulating rotation. One of them is 90 day xtrain/STS undulating rotation. Another option would be to design your own rotation consisting of 2 upper and 2 lower strength pure weight and cardio.
1x endurance, 1x heavy.

Example:

Monday Full lower body premix from High rep 40 minutes,if leaning out legs is one of the goal, double up this premix.
Tuesday Full upper body premix from High rep 40 minutes plus optional cardio premix 30 minutes.
Wednesday Tabatacise
Thursday Muscle Max or STS Total body
Friday All out Hiit extreme
Saturday Optional Squat rack plus Low impact challenge or any low impact cardio
Sunday off

Here is the link explaining training on undulation basis:

Cathe Friedrich - What is an Undulating Periodization Workout Program?.

I have just designed the mini day rotation and have not attempted it as yet. I have done one of cathe undulating rotation and I was happy.

Hope this help!

Great topic Jen

I will try out your rotation above.. It looks great.