Economic bailout bill fails

Nancy Pelosi just showed how much of a loose cannon she really is . . . her mouth will haunt her for years. I would have changed my vote too if someone started to run their mouth like that. A preverbial screw you . . and she certainly gave the ammo. Remember that there were Dems against it also. This has been coming for years - not just the Bush era.

Why blame either presidential candidates . . .this is a bipartisan issue.

I personally did not want it to pass. But those that in charge of the banks and lending institutions should be hunted down . . .

Nancy Pelosi shouldn't have said what she said, it was bad politics and it was dumb. But are they fricking kidding me, the Republicans didn't vote because their feelings were hurt by what Pelosi said?????? Give me a god damn break (Sorry, Baylian, I don't mean you, I am just talking in general) Are those guys kindergarteners or are they running our country. Get over it already!!!!! Both parties should be ashamed of themselves!!!!

It has been coming for years but the Republicans were the ones who put the death sentence on our economy by deregulating everything. The Republicans were the ones who wanted to give the Wall Street companies more tax breaks and deregulate them even further in that bill, when deregulation was what caused this problem.

Oh I just hate those politicians!!!!!
 
sorry, Carol, but Bill Clinton also signed some things into law that started this ball rolling. I do agree that if the only reason for a no vote was Pelosi's ranting, well shame on them. They need to vote what they think is correct for the country.

Someone was posting things they remembered. My first mortgage loan in 1985 was a government subsidized loan. As a young married couple, with no deductibles, we were getting killed by income tax, so we were advise to buy a house. The problem, no down payment, only being out of school a year. But we qualified the the government loan, at a wonderful(insert sarcasm) rate of 13.2% and borrowed the down payment from my parents to make the 10% down. In our case, we did not default, we were a good risk, but it sure was not that hard to get. Once the country came out of the recession, we were able to refinance at a better rate, and then bought the home we are in now 7 years later.

So all of this loan underwriting had intentions of helping people get homes, but it got taken too far. These things were happening under Democratics and Republicans. And I will say it again, get yourselves to the table and figure out how to work together.

Also, do what I intend on doing, don't look at your 401k for awhile, it will just inflict pain.
 
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Nancy Pelosi shouldn't have said what she said, it was bad politics and it was dumb. But are they fricking kidding me, the Republicans didn't vote because their feelings were hurt by what Pelosi said?????? Give me a god damn break (Sorry, Baylian, I don't mean you, I am just talking in general) Are those guys kindergarteners or are they running our country. Get over it already!!!!! Both parties should be ashamed of themselves!!!!

I don't see how its "country first" on ANY side if you don't vote for a bill because of someone's speech, partisan or not. And remember, this is a bill that both Greenspan and Buffet (not two of my favorite people) thought was a reasonable approach to the problem. But as for all those people who didn't want it to pass, I hope you are ok with the the largest drop of the DOW in history, the eradication of value of how many people's retirement accounts, and the thousands of jobs and businesses that will be no more around the world. I understand that many people didn't a lot of what was drafted (hell, I was one of them), but this is the consequence of its failure. And don't think if we manage to rally a good chunk of it back in the next couple days, its like it never happened...damage is done. And please, PLEASE do not forget the primary reason the House was such a big deal is because so many of them are up for re-election and they want to keep their six figure jobs. Our representatives on both sides have a habit to only listening to the panic of the American people right before an election.
 
Agreed Sparrow - tough times ahead but this too shall pass. Last thing I want is the Feds entrenched in Wall Street.

And get ready - the markets in Europe will be rolling in a short time.

Agreed, it will pass, and IMO a lot sooner that it would if we had allowed the Fed to continue with its huge, un-Constitutional power grab. This is not a Republican or a Democrat problem, it's a greed and failed monetary policy problem. There's enough blame to go all the way around. These nefarious boobs either failed to see this coming (I doubt it) or saw it coming and said nothing (yup) yet we were going to be willing to give them even more money to solve the problem they'd created in the first place? And include a provision that said no one could challenge, modify or change decisions made by the Chairmen of the Fed? WHAT???

I'm hopeful tonight. This too shall pass!!

Sparrow
 
The timing of the DOW dropping and the vote...the DOW dropped before the vote was done, so there certainly was no faith in this plan passing before the vote. The news is reporting the vote and then the drop, but I was watching both today, it was the other way around. Tiny point, but annoyed about the invalid reporting.
 
The timing of the DOW dropping and the vote...the DOW dropped before the vote was done, so there certainly was no faith in this plan passing before the vote. The news is reporting the vote and then the drop, but I was watching both today, it was the other way around. Tiny point, but annoyed about the invalid reporting.

You're right that the DOW had dropped before the vote, but most people will attributing it to the reaction of the Asian markets before. It then took a real dive when the bailout failed.
 
Bill Clinton has taken responsibility for compromising with the controlling Republican house and senate that loosened regulations...he has admitted to it in several interviews of late.
was right on but should've kept her yap SHUT until the thing was signed....although I would like to see several CEOs and Boards in JAIL.....but now the knuckeheads UNDER them are being let go and are not getting 6 and 7 figure job offers and several big attorneys are now putting together class action suits to chase the parachutes of these numbskulls......can't wait....
 
I agree Elliemom, it's a big, fat "F U" ~>:-(
(You can see Im upset by the slanted brows and the steam coming out my head hehe)

It sucks what happened and all, but THAT'S CAPITALISM!!
Its what we want her ein America and the smarter companies will continue on..

CEO's don't need to make 100 million a year-- NO ONE DOES!
Maybe they should have invested 97 million back into their own companies instead of dishing out generous salaries and bonuses to themselves and theirs.

Now "Im broke, help me". Sorry, don't care. Might suck for a while (like everything else) but hopefully it'll make future business of the like make some smarter decisions...

..now if only FORD and CHRYSLER got this point back in the 80's maybe we wouldn't all be buying HONDAS and TOYOTAS :T
 
How did your state vote . .

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,430321,00.html

Again I say - There only needed to be I believe 10 - 12 more yea votes to pass it - and even the Dems could not do it.

also - I quote Nancy Pelosi "The Democrats believe in a free market - it creates jobs, wealth . . " to which my DH replied "it creates face lifts" -

LOL!
 
They just showed

a tape from 2004 in which the Republicans were calling for an investigation into Freddie Mac and Fannie May ~ and I am stunned at those replying to this saying there is no impending crises ~ Barnie Frank, Maxine Waters, etc. And these people were hammering on the investigator.

All in all there are dirty hands on both sides of the aisle. . .
 
Wow. Numbers been crunched. We lost over 1.1 trillion dollars today in the stock market. That is more than what the bailout would have been at its zenith.

Scary.
 
But part of the problem is that people want everything immediately without working for it. When my DH and I bought our house 4 years ago the bank told us we could borrow an amount that we could not afford. We knew we could not afford it so only bought what we could afford. We took into account the fact that we would have to heat our house, the fact that we wanted kids and that I would stay home without a paycheck for a few years, etc. The banks should never have allowed people to borrow the way that they did but the people doing the borrowing should have known better too.
 
sorry, Carol, but Bill Clinton also signed some things into law that started this ball rolling.

I absolutely agree! You won't get an argument from me here, Dorothy. But here is my take on it. I bet y'all want to hear what I have to say about out, probably not, but here it is anyway :p

I strongly believe that the central element in our current economic crisis is the housing bubble. The question is, how did we get here? Now, I have been a real estate agent for 10 years, I have worked in a normal market, the crazy market and this down market, I have seen things that I wish would never have happened, I think the whole finanacial industry, real estate industry and appraisal industry is to blame alongside with media outlets, newspapers, magazines, tv show, books, seminars, etc. The lack of regulation and oversight in my industry is absolutely mindboggling. You flip hamburgers at McDonalds and then you go to school for 90 hours, pass a test and you are dealing with the biggest investment that people make in their life time, buying a house and your income and your ability to make ends meet and pay your bills is based on how much money these families spend on a new home and most people don't have a background or understanding of financials.

Anyway, that's a different story. The housing bubble grew alongside the stock market bubble in the late 90s to early 2000s. People who had increased their wealth based on the stock market run up were spending based on the perceived increased wealth. Consumption and with it the purchase of bigger and better homes increased and with the demand the the prices on housing increased. With it the expectation that prices will continue to rise grew. In the early 2000s with the dot com fallout, people started investing in real estate as a perceived safer alternative. Bill Clinton and the Republican congress in an effort to make housing affordable and boost the economy started what in itself was a good approach but no one knew it would spin out of control as it did now.

In 2001 the economy was very slow in recovering from the recession, jobs were shed through mid 2003. The weakness in the recovery led the Feds and Alan Greenspan to continue dropping the interest rate. With the drop of interest rate came the the decline on the savings rate from 5 % to 2 %, it wasn't a good deal anymore to put your money into a savings account. The extraordinarily low interest rate made it a no-brainer for people to buy houses, it was cheaper to buy a house and pay a mortgage than to rent.

As the economy didn't recover quick enough, our current administration in an attempt to boost the economy took steps in 2003/4 to deregulate the mortgage industry even more, paving the way for banks to actively market questionable loan products to anyone who could fog a mirror. People who had no business buying a house became home owners. Whereas in the past any investor who wanted to buy a house needed 30 % down and documentation of their income, appraisals that would take into consideration vacancies, all of that was thrown down the drain. Everyone and their brother wanted to play Donald Trump. In my state, investors were hauled in by the bus load. People who all over sudden had $ 200k+ equity in their homes was preyed upon in seminars and the main stream media to take that money out in questionable loan products and invest in real estate rental properties. New home builders were going beserk developing new subdivisions out of nowhere.

People like me who said this is madness, this is impossible to go on long term were laughed out of the room and told that we don't have a "millionaire mindset".

As people started defaulting on their loans because their initially low interest rate started resetting or investors couldn't rent out their properties, foreclosures started coming on the market, together with homes that were built in anticipation of demand, there was an oversupply of homes, starting to drive prices down. Slowly at first but more and more, banks all over sudden were faced with people walking away from their homes and the lender having to get that asset off their books. Foreclosures are usually priced 10 to 20 % less than regular sales but as the rate of default rose, foreclosures started to take home prices down.

So by now you probably say, what the heck does that have to do with me. I made responsible decisions, I didn't buy more house than I can afford. It has everything to do with you. As the flood gates open it takes every single one of us down with it. I have clients who bought a home in 2002/3, within their means at $ 300k, with 20 or 30 percent down. Reasonable, in 2005 that house was worth $ 500k +, they didn't take out a loan, didn't live beyond their means but now it is worth $ 200 or $ 250k. They lose their job or have a medical emergency, all hell is going to break loose. Whereas in the past they were able to sell and get themselves out without filing bankruptcy, without foreclosure or a short sale, they are now faced with owing more on the house than it is worth.

Now, going back to the bailout bill, I don't have much good to say about the current administration, they should have caught it before everything went to hell and a hand basket, there were signs, and I saw this coming. But they didn't, we are where we at and we need to act. The markets are freezing, banks are inundated with foreclosures and short sales, they have no more money, wall street is shuting down. That means businesses will shut down, they can't make their pay roll, credits on cars can't be given, the few homes that are sold, funding will be in question....... $ 700 bio is a staggering amount but if we don't act, our economy will go down in a tail spin, effecting every single one of us, no matter if we did all the right things and were conservative with our money.

I am accused of being the eternal optimist but for the first time in my life I am scared!! I understand what it is going on and part of me wishes I wouldn't know or understand.
 
Holy crap Carola you type fast . . .

Just heard that the Asian markets are in a free fall . . .

And considering that the majority of the US debt lies in Asia, we have cause to be afraid.

I keep thinking of the old curse, "May you live in interesting times."

We, folks, have some interesting times.
 
Holy crap Carola you type fast . . .

Just heard that the Asian markets are in a free fall . . .

I am good at typing fast, am I not ;):D

The DOW went down 777 points and yes the Asian markets are in a free fall, I wonder what will happen with the European markets in a couple of hours.
 
Back from choir, how nice to sing for 2 hours after today.

I am hoping that our lawmakers will get themselves back together, put differences aside and figure out what to do.

Carola, interesting history, from the real estate prospective. I still think people should accept some personal responsibility. I know in 91 when I was being told I could afford a home at X amount, that it was crazy, and bought what was the low end of the market. Therefore if my house value fell, I still had loads of equity in it. People need to stop buying above their means. Of course, that does not help anything now, damage is done, but going forward, I hope there will be more constraint.
 
SO TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Did not need ONE Republican. What does that tell you? They talk of McCain not being able to rally his party - well right back at ya then!

I disagreed with Pelosi's speech too. Wrong time, wrong place. It wasn't professional, and it didn't portray the spirit of bipartisanism that the situation called for. HOWEVER... She was promised by the Minority Whip that the Republicans had the number for the vote before the vote was taken. The Majority Whip pulled his end of the bargain by securing the Democrat's votes. Yes, if there had been more Dems voting in favor of it then it would have passed, but doesn't that let the Republicans off the hook? Shouldn't they be held responsible too? My God, this was supposed to be BOTH sides of the aisle working TOGETHER to get it done. I'm sure Pelosi and the Majority Whip would have tried harder to secure more YES votes had the Minority Whip not assured them that the Republican votes were there, but they didn't. Time was of the essence. So it failed and the market plunged nearly 800 points, that's more than $1 trillion lost on the markets today. To put it into better perspective, that was $3 BILLION per MINUTE from the time the bailout failed to the time the markets closed today. Not to mention the destruction that will take place on the markets ALL DAY tomorrow.

I agree that both sides are playing politics with this crisis, and it sickens me to the core. My sons' college funds are nearly 20 percent less today than they were this time last year, and that's money that we may not recoup for more than 10 years. Not to mention it's scary as hell to think that I'm bringing a new child into the world this week without knowing exactly how this will affect us in the short or long run.

I just want to take the politicians who had their feelings hurt by a stupid speech today by the shoulders and shake them for voting no just because of political rhetoric. Take responsibility. Be a grown up. She shouldn't have stoked the fire, but after all, who has been in charge for the past eight years? Eat a little humble pie, suck it up and sign the damn bill. NO ONE likes the fact that we're having to bail out fat cats and idiot lenders, but it is what it is. I'm so ashamed of my country's leadership. I only pray that November 4 brings new hope. Because it's fading fast.
 
Carola, interesting history, from the real estate prospective. I still think people should accept some personal responsibility. I know in 91 when I was being told I could afford a home at X amount, that it was crazy, and bought what was the low end of the market. Therefore if my house value fell, I still had loads of equity in it. People need to stop buying above their means. Of course, that does not help anything now, damage is done, but going forward, I hope there will be more constraint.

Again, Dorothy, no argument from me here, I am a staunch believer in personal responsibility. What I have to say though as shameful as it is, many people in my industry and the mortgage industry are sales people and all they care about is their commission check.

I don't know how many clients I lost because I told them that this is madness, they can't afford this once the interest rate resets, it's kind of nice to have food with your meals and not be house poor. Let alone the market taking a downward turn, but back then people thought this was gonna go on forever. They just went on with someone who gave them a rosier picture and told them what they wanted to hear.

But there are a lot of people who got into this mess through no fault of their own, just buying at the wrong time and maybe having an additional setbeck, like job loss, medical emergency ..... Or just bought a house that now that they have to relocate for job reasons they cannot sell without ruining their credit.
 
I've been almost exclusively tuned into CNN (when I'm not at work, that is) since all this started and have listened to about a zillion "experts" and even they can't agree with each other. If the experts can't reach a consensus how can anyone else, including us? On the one hand, I'm angry that the rich bank ceo's screwed up and expect all of us to kill ourselves working to come up with the money needed to rescue them from their own bad judgement - over an extended period of time. So many of us are struggling badly, already, I don't know how much more we can all take. On the other hand an awful lot of people who WERE thisclose to retirement and who have lost so much already from all the stock market hits, are going to lose everything if we don't. These are people who were warned repeatedly not to rely on social security and who did everything right by investing. We're talking about many decades worth of planning carefully, washed away by zero government oversight. Most of those people were already putting off their retirements and now may never be able to retire. And while I'm at it, does anyone HERE think government regulation of our retirement savings is a bad idea now? Now that we know the strangers who were managing our money were robbing us blind? So what do we do now? I've no clue but, though I'm bitter it's taken a flat-out tragedy to make our government (and it's deregulation fans) wake up to the need for government oversight of the retirement money of ordinary working people, I love that negotiations did not break down along party lines. I especially love that this debate is being taken seriously, and that approval of the quick-fix plan was withheld, especially since nobody's been able to say for certain that this expensive fix actually would FIX the problem. At least NOW the people in charge are saying "Wait a minute. We only have one chance to get this right." I don't know which politician said it but when they were talking about settling on a plan within two days, I heard one say "We spent more time discussing steroids in baseball!" They need to take their time and I want to hear all the experts come to some sort of agreement about what's been decided when, in fact, a decision has been made. THIS CAN NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN.
 

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