Govtgirl
Cathlete
http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/news/local/dc-sniper-muhammad-execution-110909
Lethal injection is much too kind for him.
Lethal injection is much too kind for him.
"DC Sniper" should be dead in about an hour. Good.
- Thread starter Govtgirl
- Start date
Govtgirl
Cathlete
I live in Northern VA, and was really, truly, terrified during those weeks. Freaked out whenever my husband went outside. Or, standing in line waiting for the bus into DC every morning, feeling like I was in a potential shooting gallery, wondering if he and Malvo were out there waiting. I go to the Michaels craft store sometimes where that woman was gunned down, and can never walk in without looking at the bench where she sat, thinking about it.
Horrible, horrible.
Horrible, horrible.
Jonezie
Cathlete
I understand your sadness at the loss of many innocent and precious individuals, but I will never believe that taking a life for a life makes sense. And it makes me sad when I see "an eye for an eye" viewpoint. Gandhi said it best, I think. "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." Killing someone will never bring those people back.
hiitdogs
Cathlete
I had never heard that Gandhi quote but I love it!
Govtgirl
Cathlete
Nope, it sure won't. Letting him fester in prison won't bring them back either.
I've just never understood that as an argument......
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Jonezie
Cathlete
Have you ever done the research on the cost of putting someone to death vs. life imprisonment? I assigned this question in a Sociology class I taught once. It is exponentially more expensive to the taxpayer to support someone on death row and their access to the many court appeals they are allowed...EXPONENTIALLY more...than a life sentence. Sorry...this just doesn't seem like a legitimate argument to me.
And I think there is a big difference between allowing someone to be put to death quietly and posting that you're glad they are dying on a fitness forum.
And I think there is a big difference between allowing someone to be put to death quietly and posting that you're glad they are dying on a fitness forum.
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Liann
Cathlete
Don't read this as snippy please! But my question would be what do you propose we do with him then? Let him sit in jail for the rest of his life while the tax payers foot the bill for his every living/medical expenses? Or would you try to rehabilitate him and give him another shot at a life? I have a hard time getting around the fact that he brutally murdered children, women and men while they were going about their every day lives. He stole their lives and ruined their family's lives. What do you do with someone like that? I'm all for torture, but I don't think that flies in this country.
hiitdogs
Cathlete
On the other hand, "you killed someone and because this is wrong we will kill you" doesn't make much sense to me either. At some level I find the killing (excution) through the government even worse because it is premeditated killing and the fact that someone has been given a fair trial doesn't make it right.
I believe killing is wrong and in my view there is no exception for the government.
That being said I am certainly not defending what he has done.
I believe killing is wrong and in my view there is no exception for the government.
That being said I am certainly not defending what he has done.
Liann
Cathlete
I guess you would have to sit down and figure that out case by case. This case actually seems like it has gone to the actual putting to death part a lot faster than most. He hasn't lingered in jail for decades like some so you'd have to look at what his costs were vs. a lifetime of appeals, probation hearings, etc... And what if he ends up with a serious illness and piles up years of medical bills. I would think every situation would be different.
hiitdogs
Cathlete
Don't read this as snippy please! But my question would be what do you propose we do with him then? Let him sit in jail for the rest of his life while the tax payers foot the bill for his every living/medical expenses? Or would you try to rehabilitate him and give him another shot at a life? I have a hard time getting around the fact that he brutally murdered children, women and men while they were going about their every day lives. He stole their lives and ruined their family's lives. What do you do with someone like that? I'm all for torture, but I don't think that flies in this country.
But all the appeals, isolation cell and death penalty cost is much more than having him rot in jail. There have been several studies that it cost more tax payer money to put someone to death than life in prison.
I believe imposing death penalty and committing torture puts us as a society at the same level as those low-lives.
Jonezie
Cathlete
No, Liann, I don't think you're being snippy at all. I have felt heartbroken over the state of humanity lately. I was in tears when someone honked at me the other day for taking too long to find a parking space. So you can imagine what I would be like to know that someone close to me was brutally murdered for no reason at all. I don't pretend to make sense of it. And I think we can all agree that capital punishment is a debate as old as time. I just know in my heart that I could never celebrate, or be remotely happy, that someone was put to death.
Worknprogress
Cathlete
I started typing a response so many times only to erase it over and over.
All I know is we live in a world where crimes are committed without regard for punishment. You have to be afraid to even look at the guy who cut you off in traffic for the fear that if you look at him wrong - YOU will pay even though his actions could have cost YOUR children their lives! We have to fear that if we go shopping at a nearby mall by ourselves and walk to our car, that we may be kidnapped, raped and killed. We have to fear answering our doors, walking alone, and the list goes on and on and on.
For gosh sake - didn't we all read about the teenage girl that was gang raped in front of how many witnesses and none of them did anything to help her? WHY - it has been proven that people will not help in those situations because they are afraid THEY will become the next victim.
I believe in everything our country stands for but I will never understand why criminals sometimes have more rights than victims. I am not saying it happens all of the time, but it happens far too much.
I had an elderly uncle gunned down and murdered for a few bucks and a good friend shot and killed closing down his shift at a fast food restaurant. His 1-year old NEVER got the chance to know him!!!!
What about the snipers' victims families? Why is it after these horrific crimes are committed people forget about the victims and just worry about the rights of the killers???????
Okay - off my soapbox.
All I know is we live in a world where crimes are committed without regard for punishment. You have to be afraid to even look at the guy who cut you off in traffic for the fear that if you look at him wrong - YOU will pay even though his actions could have cost YOUR children their lives! We have to fear that if we go shopping at a nearby mall by ourselves and walk to our car, that we may be kidnapped, raped and killed. We have to fear answering our doors, walking alone, and the list goes on and on and on.
For gosh sake - didn't we all read about the teenage girl that was gang raped in front of how many witnesses and none of them did anything to help her? WHY - it has been proven that people will not help in those situations because they are afraid THEY will become the next victim.
I believe in everything our country stands for but I will never understand why criminals sometimes have more rights than victims. I am not saying it happens all of the time, but it happens far too much.
I had an elderly uncle gunned down and murdered for a few bucks and a good friend shot and killed closing down his shift at a fast food restaurant. His 1-year old NEVER got the chance to know him!!!!
What about the snipers' victims families? Why is it after these horrific crimes are committed people forget about the victims and just worry about the rights of the killers???????
Okay - off my soapbox.
Liann
Cathlete
I think when it hits close to home is when all the rational "it's wrong to take a life" viewpoint would go out the door for me. A friend of my sister's and family was recently brutally murdered at 8 months pregnant by a woman who wanted her baby. I will not go into the gory details, but I just can't imagine a punishment fitting for the monster who did this other than death. I wouldn't rejoice in it though. It would just feel more like justice to me. But the reality is that this woman isn't even being charged for the death of the baby because the law doesn't consider a baby who hasn't taken a breath outside of the womb a real baby. And I doubt she is going to get a life sentence for what she did to my sister's friend either. I can't blame the father for wanting the woman gassed. And I can't blame the families of all of the snipers victims for wanting him executed tonight either. I doubt they will be happy though. Like you said, it will not bring them back. But it may give the families some closure.
hiitdogs
Cathlete
But how does it diminish the victim's families if he has to rot in jail instead of being put to dead?
I just don't understand how a civilized society can put someone to death and claim it is justice. No one talks about letting anyone get away with a crime.
Worknprogress
Cathlete
That's for the victims' families to answer, not me.
I served in the military to protect our civilized society and I believe whole-heartedly in it but I feel that sometimes people forget about the victims and their families. The people that died by the sniper's hand simply were going about their lives and in an instant their lives were over.
I am one of those people that try not to judge until I have walked in someone's shoes and unfortunately in this situation, I have walked that path as I stated in my previous post.
All I am saying is this story has been on the news throughout the day. It was about saving the life of the sniper and not one minute about the victims. They seem to be forgotten.
Jonezie
Cathlete
Debbie...you are so right. Why don't we focus more on the families after these horrific crimes happen? But we never do hear about them...or what is being done to help them through this. You touch on a wonderful point.
I think it's interesting that you bring up the killer's rights. I've never really thought about that. But I think there is a big difference between fighting for someone's rights and not celebrating their execution.
Did anyone watch Oprah today? It was about a man on death row who had murdered the parents of two sets of children (including the mother of his own). But his niece and nephew...two absolutely wonderful young people who had to grow up without their mother and father...even they admitted that killing him was not their wish and that it did nothing to bring them closure. They actually said forgiveness was what brought them the closure they needed.
Remember the Amish community that lost all their little ones when the gunmen came into their school and shot them? The first thing they did was forgive that man. The FIRST thing.
Could I do that? I don't know. But I'd like to aspire to such an enlightened way of life.
I think it's interesting that you bring up the killer's rights. I've never really thought about that. But I think there is a big difference between fighting for someone's rights and not celebrating their execution.
Did anyone watch Oprah today? It was about a man on death row who had murdered the parents of two sets of children (including the mother of his own). But his niece and nephew...two absolutely wonderful young people who had to grow up without their mother and father...even they admitted that killing him was not their wish and that it did nothing to bring them closure. They actually said forgiveness was what brought them the closure they needed.
Remember the Amish community that lost all their little ones when the gunmen came into their school and shot them? The first thing they did was forgive that man. The FIRST thing.
Could I do that? I don't know. But I'd like to aspire to such an enlightened way of life.
Jonezie
Cathlete
PS...the fact that a post was started and read "DC Sniper should be dead in about an hour...good" - is the perfect example of how we are focusing on this man in exclusion of those families. Shouldn't we be more interested in knowing how the families are today...and everyday? Instead of dancing on this man's grave?
hiitdogs
Cathlete
I am not defending what he did, not by any stretch of the imagination.
If he had been sentenced to life in prison this whole thing wouldn't have been dredged up again and the victims' families would not have to relive it again.
I guess my question is what the purpose of the death penalty really is? Because it sure as heck is not a deterrent. Life in prison without parole would do the trick to keep the rest of the population safe from the offender.
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