Cats, Diabetes and Food!

sparrow13

sparrow13

Cathlete
Morning All:

I'm hoping some of the more knowledgeable Catheites can advise me here. Here's the situation:

A month ago DH and I decided it was time to get a cat. So we headed off to the shelter to get a kitten. While we were looking at the kittens someone tapped me on the shoulder so I turned around to see this skinny, scraggly calico cat with gorgeous markings with her paw sticking through the cage and grabbing at my sweater! When I turned around she gave out the most hilarious meow! Seriously, it's so raspy, it sounds like she is has been smoking unfiltered Camels for twenty years. Anyway, I digress. I fell in love and we went home with Comet instead of the kitten. Fast forward two weeks later and she is desperately ill. The vet determines that she has diabetes. He keeps her a few days to stabilize her and in the meantime we do a ton of research on feline diabetes. We learn that apparently cats should not be fed dry food, and should not be fed grains either, or only fed them in tiny amounts. So we have her on a non-grain Wellness brand cat food, supplemented with chicken, turkey, eggs, that sort of thing. However, the vet keeps telling us that we should have her on this dry food for diabetic cats, which seems to contradict everything I've read online. My sister had her vet say the same thing when she asked about it for me. I'm so confused! Does anyone have any experience with this?? All thoughts welcome!

TIA!

Sparrow





Even after all this time the earth never says to the sun, "you owe me." Look what happens with a love like that.

It lights the whole sky.

- Hafiz
 
Sparrow,

This may not be a popular opinion, but from an owner of a diabetic animal, listen to your vet. I found a lot of information on line when my dear kitty was diagnosed a few years back and honestly, your vet knows best. I am sure I will get flamed but if you like and trust your vet, I would recommend following his lead. Good luck to you!
 
Hi, Sparrow!!!

So glad you're back!

While I don't have personal experience, a friend of mine had a cat that was diabetic. I will get with her and find out what I can.

She had to give her cat insulin two times a day. Here's the kicker: the cat overcame it. Yep, one day my friend gave her the shot and the kitty went into shock from too much insulin. When she took her to the vet, he told her that it was because the cat didn't need it anymore. Evidently, cats are the only mammal that can "be cured" from diabetes. Her cat lived about five more years (until she was about 16) and never had to be given insulin again. My friend may have kept her on a special diet; I'll find all this out for you!

Good luck!
 
Comet sounds like such a sweetheart! I love kitties with purrrrrsonality like that. ;)

I don't have any first-hand experience with feline diabetes... YET. I have a very overweight kitty who is probably destined to become diabetic, so I've done a lot of my own research on how to get fat cats to lose weight and stuff like that.

One thing that I remember reading several places is that obese and diabetic cats often do VERY well on the "Catkins Diet" - a high-protein, low-carb diet. It's what they would eat in nature. A wild cat isn't going to go around chewing on corn cobs and wheat. They're going to kill prey and eat the meat - mostly protein and fat. Dry cat foods tend to contain way more carbs than cats need, so of course, you want to avoid most dry foods for a diabetic cat - as you've already found out. What kind of food is your vet trying to push on you? There are a couple of high-protein, low-carb DRY cat foods available, and I would think if it were one of those, that would probably be okay for Comet. But if she is showing improvement on the diet you are currently using, then I see no reason to switch. I think sometimes vets like to push prescription diets just to make a sale. Trust your own judgment and instinct.

I have some great resources for you, if you haven't found these already. These two webpages give macronutrient breakdowns for nearly every brand and type of cat food available. It's so much more helpful than the "guaranteed anaylsis" that is printed on the bags of food. This will tell you which foods are truly low-carb and high-protein.

Canned cat food:
http://www.geocities.com/jmpeerson/canfood.html

Dry cat food:
http://www.geocities.com/jmpeerson/dryfood.html

I hope your kitty feels better soon! :)
 
Hi Sparrow,

Disclaimer: I DON'T have a diabetic cat, but I have a cat that is prone to getting fat, particularly in the winter months.

Your food question piqued my curiosity since my vet recommended the "Catkins" type diet Emily mentioned in order to keep his weight in check.

I found this online brochure from the Cornell College of Veterinary Medicine about feline diabetes. The diet info in there mentions that some cats do well on a high-fiber/complex carb diet, while others do better with carb restricted diets. Since it sounds like your kitty doesn't need to lose weight, your vet may be prescribing a food meant to get blood sugar levels in check.

Here's a link to that brochure:
http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/brochures/diabetes.html

Go to your vet and ask her/him about the conflicting information you've been seeing. Any veterinarian worth their salt will be happy to explain why they're recommending the dry food. Every cat is different, so finding the right diet may requiring some trial and error. If they have a problem with your asking questions, then I'd look for a different vet.

Seriously, I ask my vet a lot of questions and she is always cool with it.
 
I don't know why you think that you get flamed for your opinion, Melissa! It is your opinion and I respect that.

My view on that is a little different, as you know. In general, I have a problem with commercial pet food, especially kibble, no matter if it is sold at the supermarket, pet store or at the vet. Kibble is highly processed food with often questionable ingredients. The processing at high heat will destroy whatever nutrients and enzymes were originally there and then cheap vitamins will be added to be able to claim "balanced nutrition".

Veterinary schools in the USA only offer basic courses in nutrition, mostly as electives, there is just not a lot of focus on prevention and nutrition but instead surgery and drugs. Those "nutritional" classes will mostly be provided through pet food manufacturers like Hill's Science Diet. To me that sounds like the equivilant of McDonald's teaching nutritional education at our schools. In other words, unless a vet is really interested in nutrition, the basic class in vet school will be all they know about and I would suggest that Hill's won't teach the benefit of a homemade, fresh diet for our pets. They are making a monetary investment in teaching those classes and they want to/need to see a return on their investment.

The problem with kibble is that it cannot be produced without adding a fairly high amount of carbohydrates, however, like in humans diabetes in cats is a immune disorder in which the body attacks the pancreatic cells that produce insulin. The onset of diabetes is often caused by high levels of carbohydrates/sugars in a cat's diet. Cats in the wild are true carnivores (unlike humans or dogs who are omnivores), meaning, cats thrive almost exclusively on meat, in the wild they will eat "some" vegetable matter or grains by eating the stomach contents of their prey who eat grains and vegetables (birds, mice, etc.) but it is minimal.

Most commercial diets for cats in all reality contain 50 % or more of carbohydrates, a lot of them contain sweeteners (sugar, cane sugar, cane molasses, etc.) to make the food more palatable. The fact that a lot of pet food manufacturers also spray fat (restaurant grease, etc.)on the kibble to make it more appealing for the pet makes the onset of diabetes even more likely.

There was another thread about a diabetic cat, here is the link

http://69.0.137.118/dc/dcboard.php?..._id=379713&mesg_id=379713&listing_type=search

Sparrow, if your vet tells you to feed the kibble instead, I would ask him/her to explain the reasoning behind it and why he thinks what you have read would not be beneficial to your cat. Do your research, one book that I would really recommend is Dr. Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for Cats and Dogs (he is a vet), it talks about nutrition, diabetes, etc. If you and your vet don't see eye to eye on that, find another vet. Times are changing and a lot of vets start to recognize the benefits of fresh pet food.

Congrats on your new kitty. I thought your story how she chose you was very cute and moving. It sounds like a perfect match. Good luck!
 
My cat Scooter (who died last year) had diabetes for 5 years. He had daily shots, no special food (because he refused to eat it), and he did pretty well. At one point, when we were still trying to figure out his insulin dosage, he got diabetic neuropathy (nerve damage in the extremitites) and started walking almost on his 'knees' and 'elbows.' According to traditional medicine (animal and human medicine), neuropathy is irreversible. But I found a web site just on diabetic cats, and they recommended B12 (methylcobalamin, not the regular cyanacobalamin). After about a month of one pill a day, he was once again able to jump onto the sofa, walk up and down stairs, and get around almost 100% normally.

Look for "diabetic feline" and you can find this site, which can give you some good advice about the food.
 
Wow, this is all really interesting info. I had never thought about how a cat in the wild is almost purely a carnivore. My cat has been eating a prescribed food (Feline T/D) for years ever since I got him from the shelter and his teeth were practically rotting out of his head. To avoid having to have his teeth cleaned every year (can you say PRICEY!?!?!?!?) the vet put him on this prescribed food--which is a DRY food.

I have always heard that cats should eat dry food only as it helps scrape the plaque off their teeth. You all seem to believe that dry food it too processed and too high in carbohydrates. What should I do now? Should I feed my cat some wet food too in addition to the dry food? Any advice would be helpful. Now I'm starting to think that the vet only wants to make a sale and that's why he's pushing the Rx food.... :(

Allison

http://www.picturetrail.com/allisonj90
 
Go to the website for Best Friends Animal Society. On their message boards there is a vet on call 24/7. Also if you trust your vet that is who you should listen to. Good luck & it is wonderful you adopted an older cat.

Karen
 
> I have always heard that cats should eat dry food only as it
>helps scrape the plaque off their teeth.

Allison, the first time I went to a vet in the US, I was told that I should put my cats that I brought from Germany on dry food only because it would help keep their teeth clean. I have to admit that I started laughing and thought she was kidding. Silly me, she was absolutely serious and I have heard this claim numerous times.

If that was true why don't we just quit brushing our teeth and keep eating cereal, no need to brush, right? We wouldn't do that with our kids but somehow we buy into the silly notion of petfood manufacturers that dry food scrapes the plaque of the cats/dogs teeth.
When a cat chews dry food, it shatters into small pieces. In order to promote effective cleansing of tooth and gums, the food must remain in contact with the teeth and gums for a period of time. I don't know how your cats or dogs eat, but the ones that I have seen don't chew much on the kibble and just scarf it down.

I know there are a lot of "natural" companies out there now, and whereas their ingredients may be better or human grade, they use the same processing methods. But they also claim their food is designed to be exactly like what a cat would eat in the wild, just in a dry form. For one you can NOT produce any kibble without addition of at least 40 % of grains and then "bake it", it will crumble, so they HAVE to add a significant amount of grain/carbohydrate. And that is just as silly as it gets, what kind of dry food would a cat ever encounter in the wild? Biscuits leaping across the desert????

If you don't want to go through the hassle of homemade food which is much harder to make for cats because they are more finicky than dogs, you may want to try Nature's Variety Raw Instinct (canned), it is grain-free, or Wysong has a line of 95 % meat canned cat food.

I hope this helps!
 
Hi Allison,

My 12 year old cat eats primarily a wet food diet (Merrick canned and the occasional Jack Mackerel). I give him about 1/8 of a cup of dry food (usually California Natural) in addition to help with his teeth and it works fine to keep the tartar down.

I don't think you need to go all wet OR all dry. Some of each is fine.

Now here's a related question: Raw bones work great for keeping dogs' teeth clean, so can raw bones work the same way for cats? Anybody try this? Will a cat gnaw/chew a bone?
 
>Now here's a related question: Raw bones work great for
>keeping dogs' teeth clean, so can raw bones work the same way
>for cats? Anybody try this? Will a cat gnaw/chew a bone?

Gayle, I will give my cat a small chicken wing, wing of a cornish hen, chicken neck etc every once in a while and he chews it. But it has to be soft bone or no-load-bearing bones, a chicken drumstick bone is too hard. A friend of mine feeds whole chicks to her cats and they eat the whole thing. I have to say though, I can't bring myself to keep those whole frozen chick in the freezer, even though I have a freezer that I only use for pet food.
 
There is a book Your Cat Simple New Secrets to a Longer Stronger Life by Elizabeth M. Hodgkins DVM that speaks at length about diet and desease--especially diabetes and kidney desease. Her background is in the pet food industry and she is now in private practice in CA specializing in felines. I rented it from the library and have been reading thru it and there is lots of interesting info about diet for cats. See if your library has it and take a look. Talks alot about cats being carnivores and is not a big fan of dry food.
 
>Hey Carola--
> Thanks for the info!! Do you know where I can find the
>Nature's Variety? I found their website but was wondering if
>they sell to stores like Petco? Thanks!


Hey Allison,

no they don't sell at Petco or Petsmart at least not in my neck of the woods. But they do have a store locator on their website, if you put your zip code in it should give you a list of stores who carry it.

In the past, I have ordered from www.sitstay.com, they carry the brand and their prices are reasonable. If you subscribe to their newsletter, you will sometimes get discount coupons and they have free shipping every few months. Cans are pretty heavy and the shipping can get a little pricey, I would always wait for the free shipping or discount and order 2 or 3 months supply.
 
You guys are wonderful, thanks for the thoughts and links! I am going to go over them this weekend, when I have two minutes back to back :)

The thing with the vet is that I have no great bond or trust in him. He hasn't done anything wrong it's just that we picked him because his office is where the animal shelter sends people with the "free exam" vouchers when adopting an animal. He's pleasant, and his practice is large and busy, though that in itself is a drawback because we can never get two minutes to really talk with him. He's always running around looking frizzled.

The thing I can't get past is that cats are dedicated carnivores in their natural state - as others have said here - so why are we feeding them dry food? Sigh. You know what's funny? The joke is on me, because when DH said he wanted a pet I was really reluctant - I've never been a pet owner before this - but was persuaded to go with a cat because everyone assured me that cats were extremely low maintenance pets! How did I end with mouthy high-maintenance little Comet who is well on her way to being the most spoiled cat in the Western Hemisphere? :D

Sparrow


Even after all this time the earth never says to the sun, "you owe me." Look what happens with a love like that.

It lights the whole sky.

- Hafiz
 
>I've never been a pet owner
>before this - but was persuaded to go with a cat because
>everyone assured me that cats were extremely low maintenance
>pets! How did I end with mouthy high-maintenance little
>Comet who is well on her way to being the most spoiled cat in
>the Western Hemisphere? :D

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Cats? Low maintenance??? *snort* Anyone who says that has obviously never HAD cats. :p Your mouthy, high-maintenance Comet sounds an awful like lot my mouthy, high-maintenance Mila. That girl will talk your ear off, and all she wants to do is play. But she can't play by herself... nooooo... she needs ME to drag her fishing pole toy around the house for her to chase. If it were up to Mila, I'd be a stay-at-home kitty mom, playing with her every hour of the day. :7

Low maintenance my foot!!! :p
 
>>Now here's a related question: Raw bones work great for
>>keeping dogs' teeth clean, so can raw bones work the same
>way
>>for cats? Anybody try this? Will a cat gnaw/chew a bone?
>
>Gayle, I will give my cat a small chicken wing, wing of a
>cornish hen, chicken neck etc every once in a while and he
>chews it. But it has to be soft bone or no-load-bearing bones,
>a chicken drumstick bone is too hard. A friend of mine feeds
>whole chicks to her cats and they eat the whole thing. I have
>to say though, I can't bring myself to keep those whole frozen
>chick in the freezer, even though I have a freezer that I only
>use for pet food.


I also feed chicken wings to my three cats. Actually, they eat completely raw...80% meat, 10% bone, and 10% organ. I give them chicken, pork, beef, rabbit, pretty much any meat I can find at good prices. All three of them are in excellent shape, with great skin, teeth, and eyes.

Your vet is dead wrong for recommending dry food to your sick kitty. There are some vets that do not sell dry food and do support a species appropriate diet, but they are few and far between, unfortunately.

For more info, I definitely recommend joining the "rawfeeding" Yahoo group. The group has thousands of members, many of whom are very knowledgeable on the subject of raw feeding.

Good luck and best wishes to your sick kitty.
 
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