Cathe - what is your opinion on "New Rules Of Lifting" type training?

Vee

Vee

Cathlete
Cathe,

I think I picked a bad time to ask! I am not sure my question will be noticed since you must be extra busy on STS and the deluge of STS questions.

A lot of programs focus on periodization, so my question is not about the periodization aspect of the NROL program. It is specifically about the opinion that it is not necessary to do exercises that target just the biceps or triceps or do exercises that target specific muscles only such as the leg-extension or leg-press on gym-machines. The premise is that all you need to develop strength and muscle are the six basic moves - squat, bend, lunge, push, pull, and twist since they cover all muscles, worked in conjunction.

I am far, far away from having the level of body fat needed or the amount of muscle mass needed to show off cut biceps/triceps/teardrops in my hammies. My goal in weight training is to develop my muscle/strength and nothing more. Is it that unless you intend to be a competitive bodybuilder / have a body like one, sticking with basic moves is good enough?

Thank you.

Vrinda
 
RE: Cathe - what is your opinion on

Hi Vrinda! The New Rules of Lifting for Women (Allwyn Cosgrove) believes that women should do 3 total body workouts per week & only specific exercises like you mentioned. Cathe's periodization is different in that it uses split routines. Both methods I'm quite sure work. I've decided to pass on her STS & I'll be using the book instead. I've done periodization using P90X system & it does work & that did use split routines as well as isolation moves for bis & tris. I'm now doing P90X+ & its kicking my butt big time!

I'm curious too though as to why Cathe will be doing isolation moves for biceps & triceps when Allwyn Cosgrove states the opposite. I plan on being the guinea pig & use the book & record my results. Cathe can you answer? Kathy:D
 
RE: Cathe - what is your opinion on

This is just my $.02 so keep it or throw it away :), but I believe that isolation exercises for smaller muscle groups allow them to grow stronger faster so they don't hold you back when you are working your larger muscle groups. (Kind of like the weakest link in the chain theory.) For example, if your arms/shoulders are too weak to do the max push ups that your chest can handle, then your chest isn't getting worked to true failure, just your arms/shoulders. Also, I think isolation work is good for preventing injury for the same reason. If you are pushing really hard on your chest work, you could injure a smaller muscle that's being recruited to do more than it's ready for. I'm looking forward to Cathe's response too!

Jonahnah
Chocolate IS the answer, regardless of the question.
 
RE: Cathe - what is your opinion on

Hi Vrinda! While I personally never comment on another fitness professionals work, I will address your specific question of my thoughts on ONLY using compound moves vs including isolation moves in a workout.

In all my 25 plus years of fitness I have never ever believed that there is only one way to do something. Just as no one person is exactly alike, no one method/concept of training should be exactly alike. I like shocking the system with a variety of exercises as well as a variety of ways to do something. I like to mix isolation moves with compound moves to get the best of both worlds. I have done it throughout my training life and it has not failed me yet :)
 
RE: Cathe - what is your opinion on

Cathe,

Uh-oh. Did not intend to put you in a spot! :+

I learnt to weight train / workout hard from you. I like many instructors but in my opinion you are the best. So your opinion is valued by me. Thank you for answering in the way you did.

I respect you for your grace and professionalism in not commenting about other's products or opinions.

Vrinda
 
RE: Cathe - what is your opinion on

Thanks Jonahnah! The weakest link theory made sense to me too, because I can feel how my ability on compound moves seems to improve when I am doing a three day split combining both compound and isolation exercises, and with specific focus on biceps/triceps. I wondered whether I was imagining it after reading the raves about NROL and NROLFW.

I also could not reconcile the theory that isolation exercises can cause strength imbalances and injury since I have seen them being used extensively in PT in my gym to achieve the opposite result.
 
RE: Cathe - what is your opinion on

Kathy,

:)

I love full body workouts. My favorite way to train, especially done circuit or super-set style. I weight train 3 X per week too.

I have tried both approaches consistently for stretches of time, and found I get better results (on leanness ie. losing and keeping off my blubber and looking firm rather than squishy) with 3 day spilt routines.

Confuses the heck out me because what I have read tells me the opposite should be the case.

Vrinda
 
RE: Cathe - what is your opinion on

I'm glad this question was asked because it seems like all you read on the body building/fitness forums are to only do compound exercises and not bothering with single joint. When I read the discription to STS I was having 2nd thoughts about it for that reason. I think i'm going to trust in what Cathe says though and give it a try. It is true that every person's body reacts different.
 
RE: Cathe - what is your opinion on

Jonahnah's response makes sense. As for myself, I LOVE the 3-day split approach because I got/am getting superior results from truly working each muscle group to failure. When I've tried total body (which I did for six months, albeit in a circuit format) I got nowhere. Although the IDEA of working every muscle group three times per week sounds like it would be more effective, I got IMMEDIATE results on a 3-day split. You would think you'd get better results from working the muscles three times instead of once but, on a 3-day split I'm just less exhausted, more focused (and more fully recovered) and just able to lift so much more doing it less often. At least in my case, the results are proof that less really is more, although that may not be true for everyone....
 
RE: Cathe - what is your opinion on

Hi Vrinda!

I've done both approaches in my 23 years of lifting. 3 day splits + total body workouts. For my body personally though I found that total body workouts 3x a week gave me the best results as far as bodyfat % loss. When I did 3 months of P90X using periodization, I had gained a LOT of muscle especially in my upper body. My arms were huge. I kept challenging myself every week something that I wasn't doing w/the total body workouts. I was using Muscle Max, Muscle Endurance & Power Hour which are all endurance. When I came off of P90X what I had gained in strength didn't give me the leanness I was looking for. However, I was also eating more due to the intensity of the workouts, therefore, not much of a loss in bf %.

I also didn't use the 1RM method either. Did it incorrectly. I believe once I do the Workout Manager & determine what the correct weights are for me + the nutrition tracker, I'll finally get the results I want.

Long story even longer, both methods do work as in what Cathe said above. I'll be starting the workouts in NROLFW soon.

Take care, Kathy:D
 
RE: Cathe - what is your opinion on

Thank you Kathy.

Yes, I have never tried weight training "correctly" - by establishing my 1 rep max. I pick up a weight that seems right for the number of reps and just go for it. My full body workouts were endurance style as you describe it.


~* Vrinda *~
 
RE: Cathe - what is your opinion on

Hi,

I just bought the book and enjoy it- straight and to the point that girls are capable of lifting "like a man" and not "toning". There needs to be MORE books like that. I do agree though that is not just one way of doing things and shocking the body can do wonders.

Personally, I do compound moves in my workout and lift hard and HEAVY (the basics: full squat, deadlifts, shoulder press, pull ups, etc.)and once in a while throw in some isolation exercises- on the lighter lifting day. I determine heavy by how I feel after my set, which should be NEEDING to take that rest period! If I feel like I could have pumped out a few more reps, then I should increase and same goes for if I need to lighten up. Each week I try to lift a little more then the last so I can continually get stronger- and of course I eat right and ENOUGH to full and recover from workouts. It works for me and I think it's important to first set a GOAL of what you want and then tweak a program that works for you.

:)
 
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