BAD DISKS IN BACK -- WHAT TO DO?

D

DebTaylor

Member
Cathe,

Initially, I want to thank you for the incredible videos which you and your company produce. I am new to your workouts, and must say, as a former Firm groupie, I have since abandoned that camp and joined yours. I find myself pushing my Firm tapes out of the way to get to yours. I am, as you have so aptly stated, ready for the next step.

My situation and questions are as follows:

I have a bulging/herniated disk at S1-L5 (low back). I seem to manage it with strength training and stretching, but occasionally, it rears its ugly head. Are dead lifts helpful or hurtful? Do you "work through" the pain or lay off the exercises until it subsides? What other form of strength training can I do to keep that lower back from going out/spasming?

I HATE not exercising. I feel stiff and irritable, and I do not sleep well when I don't exercise. By the same token, I don't want to work myself into candidacy for back surgery, either. HELP!

Thank you very much,

-Deb
 
Hey Deb,

With back issues of my own, I can tell you that you must be VERY careful. There will be occassions when you have to take time off. I have stenosis, which is almost the opposite of your problem but in the same area. I manage my pain with the same as you.

My recommendations are that if you do deadlifts, do it with very little weight so as to not aggrevate the disks. And STOP if you have any pain while doing them. Personally, I skip them in the strength tapes Cathe has put out. I do them only when I'm doing Power Hour but I only use 18 lbs (total weight).

As for what other forms of strength training, that really should be left to a professional. Have you had any physical therapy? A trained PT will be able to tell you what you should & should not be doing for your diagnosis.

Personally, I have chosen to ignore mine as she told me not to exercise with weights at all. I've actually had tremendous success. I'm stronger than I was previous to my diagnosis a year ago, I've lost weight & am getting buff. Ok, I have a long way to go. But a girl can dream can't she? lol

What has worked for me is really building my core strength using the exercises I learned in therapy & using the stability ball. The benefits have been great. I am working on nice abs!

When doing any form of exercise, listen to your body. If you've been a Firmie for long (I was, too), you know the difference between the burn of working out verses the pain of your disk problem. Stop exercising if it hurts.

Hope that helps.
 
Deborah,

Thanks so much for writing. Everything you said makes sense, and is sensible.

I was a serious exerciser 10 years ago (a Firmie), and then I got lazy. Then last year, for my 39th birthday, I found out about the bum disks AND high triglycerides/LDL cholesterol. Happy Birthday to me. x( The options were two: do nothing and shorten my life, or start moving, lose the excess weight and change my life.

I opted for the latter, dusted off the Firm tapes, have lost 35 pounds (have 20 more to go) and feel better than I have in a long time. I just hate the limitations these bad disks place on me. For example, I walked 4 miles on the treadmill today (remember, Hard Power Walking with Weights and Susan Harris? That's what I did.) Now, I'm paying for it. The spirit is so willing...

I tried water aerobics -- way too much back activity -- wound up in spasms for two weeks. I love weights and need the cardio, thus the dilemma.

I know all too well what you said is true -- the burn of correct exercise versus the pain of injury. Dead lifts don't hurt INITIALLY, it's afterwards. I think I'll follow your example by skipping them for now, work on the core and accept my limitations. Any suggestions for core work? I know it's more than ab work, but again, I'm at a loss for good, conservative, safe back work.

I did do physical therapy initially. That's what motivated me to embark on a serious exercise program. My PT told me I had no core strength, no ability to balance (very dangerous) and was generally very weak. We started with simple leg raises, squats against the wall, calf raises and very limited ball work. I was rewarded with heat and back electrical stimulations at the end of my "workouts." The heat was the best!

I'm proud of my accomplishments in just 14 months. I am just so ready for MORE, and I'm starting to believe I can't have it because of this *!@%#% back!

I'm rambling out of sheer frustration and for that, I apologize. Thanks for the ear... :+

-Deb
 
Hey Deb!

I know too well what you describe when you mention the deadlifts not hurting until "later." I am going to try to get certified to do Body Pump, which is like Cathe's Power Hour. I've been doing Power Hour a lot to get used to the "speed" of the work. On Saturday I decided to give those deadlifts a shot. I can do 40 lb squats, 30 lb lunges, 35 lb dead rows, you get the picture I can lift heavy. I used an 18 lb bar for deadlifts. BIG MISTAKE, HUGE! Sunday morning I woke up in so much pain I wanted to cry! I don't know what I'm going to do. If I can't do deadlifts, I can't get certified. I have to make a decision about this now before they charge my credit card.

Anyway, my suggestions for your core is continuing to do the exercises you learned in therapy. I still do mine on a daily basis. I don't do as many reps as I did in PT but I do them. If you have a stability ball, buy a tape to use. If you don't have a ball, GET ONE!!! It was probably the best investment I made for my core health. I sit on my to watch tv & roll my hips around.

Another thing that has really helped my core is Cathe's planks & the core work in her Upper Body Pyramid tape. DO THE CORE WORK BEFORE THE WEIGHT WORK. If I do the core work after, I can't hold myself up because my arms are so week. LOL

My final suggestion would be a pilates tape. I personally haven't done any because I'm too lazy, even though I have the whole winsor set. But I hear they are great for the core. I am going to try to start incorporating them because I am trying to get my body "physique competitor" ready & I hear these tapes will help "elongate" my muscles. I have 6 more pounds (from 20 lbs to lose)to lose to get to goal weight & I'm starting to see some real definition.

I'm sure that you already know this, getting the core stronger takes time but not the time it takes to build the other muscles. I can go a week without doing core work & start to feel the "degeneration" but if I get right back to my pt exercises, I feel better in just a few minutes.

Get your core stronger & the walking won't be so painful. When I was at my worst last year, I couldn't go grocery shopping (a 45 minute walk) without ending up in pain. Now I can walk a leisurely pace for an hour & a half before I start to feel twinges. And I can do Rhythmic Step without worrying about it. I don't do high impact anything, it hurts my knees as well as my back.

By the way, I'm probably only a few months behind you age wise; I just turned 39 in May. When my back hurts I feel old. When it doesn't I know that my age is only a number!

Now that I've told you to go out & spend money, if you need anything else, feel free to email me at [email protected]. I'll be happy to help.
 
Hi Deb,

Wow can I relate to your situation. Please read the thread in Open Discussion - "Doctor Says No to High Impact Workouts". I'm a bit older than you (w/b 52 in August - look late 30's) but since discovering Cathe, among others I have come a long way with my workouts, weight and self awareness of what feels right for me. I was diagnosed recently with DDD - degnerative disc disease. In reality - fancy words for bulging and herniated discs. After seeking 2nd, 3rd and 4th opinions I listened to my doctor and went to a physical therapy center. The evaluation showed not only my PT but myself that all the working out that I was doing for the past 2 years was in fact paying off. My PT suggested that in order to stabilize my back and not injure myself during my workouts that the core should always be engaged, just as Cathe suggests in all of her workouts. He has me doing about 20-30 minutes (twice a day) of stretching - glutes, hamstrings, quads, etc. all while ensuring that my core is engaged. One of the things that impressed my PT was my ability to do long sets and I told him - thanks to Cathe!!! Breathing correctly also helps. At this time my head does not come off the floor for most of these stretches and as of today, I don't have much discomfort or pain in my lower back and I don't have to take all that medication that makes me feel dopey all day long. I still have a way to go before completion of my therapy - about 6-8 weeks worth, but I'm confident that I'll get through this and will get back to my workouts with Cathe. Besides, I have brand new equipment (step, medicine ball and new workout gear)that I'm anxious to use...and get my body back! Deb, seek other opinions from professionals and get some physical therapy - it will get better - it will - promise. Most of all - listen to your body! Take care and keep us posted.

Iris
 
Iris,

I read every single post on your "Doctor Said No..." and am inspired and encouraged. I refuse to give up on my new found love -- Cathe workouts! I, too, have invested in a medicine ball, a new step and new clothes. I just ordered the Intensity Series after reading the rave reviews it got!

I have found that correct breathing and form are VITAL for those of us in this situation. I can tell you that, if I let my back "slide out" even the tiniest little bit, it will ZAP me! You do have to remain constantly focused, or you will hurt yourself. I do find myself stretching a bit more than our fitness videos prescribe, paying particular attention to stretching out my low back. Boy, I feel it if I don't. I will sometimes lay down on the floor during the day, just to get the stretch and aligning that comes from a hard, flat surface.

I don't know how I ruined my back, but I will find a way to work around it. And like you, working around it does NOT include drugs. I've done the Skelaxin, Naproxyn, Vioxx, Oxycontin thing. Forget it. There's a healthier way to address this situation, and I think we're all on to it!

Thanks to all -- what an incredible support group I've found!

xo-Deb
 
Deb,

I will invest in the stability ball -- that's the large one, right? And, I'll research the best exercises to do on it (home videos, natch).

Wow, you are really throwing some iron around, girl! I feel for you about your certification -- don't you HATE limitations? What are you going to do? Is there any way to modify those dreaded dead lifts for the certification process and subsequent sessions?

I've got the bad knee thing happening, too -- torn meniscus. Tried scoping it. No good -- I just deal with it. Can't go bare-footed for that very same reason --shouldn't anyway -- flat feet, too. I feel like the deck's stacked against me, but I don't let it defeat me. I use New Balance Superfeet inserts in my workout shoes -- a tremendous help all the way up. I found them at www.newbalancewebexpress.com -- great website and very helpful customer service!

Lotsa luck to you with your certification -- I am very impressed! I'll keep you updated. Please do the same...

xo-deb
 
Hi Deb,

I totally agree with you on the support of this forum. Deborah, Nancy and all that answered my pleas when I was told about my condition were so helpful and caring. And most of all - they took the time to read and respond to me. For this and Cathe and all of the wonderful people on this forum, no to mention my family and DB, who supports all my efforts without question, a big heartfelt thank you and huge bear hug!! Deb, please let me (all of us) know how your progress is going. We're here for you!!

Take care sweetie,

Iris
 
Hi, Deb:

As a back patient who ended up in emergency surgery with an L5-S1 disc that was crushing my sciatic nerve to the point of loss of feeling in most of my left leg, I have to throw in my two cents here.

Dead lifts are better done with light weight as Deborah says. I read recently that back patients shouldn't try to build any muscle in the lumbar region, but should just try to maintain healthy tone. It's also very important when you lower yourself down in a deadlift that you keep the work in your hamstrings, creating nothing more than an isometric hold in the spinal erectors. You do that by not descending past the point where you can maintain a natural lumbar curve. If the lumbar area begins to round you have gone too far. If you bend over, hinging from the hip, and put one hand on your lower back you will learn where that point is. As soon as the last couple of vertebrae start to come through you're past where you should be. I hope that's understandable without a picture....

I foolishly used to pride myself on being able to go down to my ankles on deadlifts, but now am quite content to barely go past the knees. Keeping the legs as straight as possible without locking them will sometimes help keep the work in the hammies as well.

Doing supermans and modified cobras might help your back, too. Make sure you never round that lumbar area when you are picking up anything. I get down on my hands and knees to get things out of the fridge sometimes. Core work, core work, core work, especially if crunches give you that twinge as they did me before surgery. My PT had me put a rolled towel under my lower back when doing crunches to maintain the natural curve.

This is long enough, sorry. I could go on and on, so if you want to email me privately, feel free. Since I ended up so messed up and have made a pretty good recovery, I consider it a form of good karma to help anyone I can who's in the same boat. By the way, both my PT and surgeon told me an active lifestyle is much better than a sedentary one as far as maintaining spinal health, and they also both said that emotional well-being plays a role, too. You want to work out, so do it, but within your current limitations. Good luck and keep us posted.

--Ann
 
Please listen to Anne about form on Deadlifts! She is dead-on (no pun intended!). I won't even teach this move in a class because it is impossible to get everyone in proper alignment. The cues Cathe uses in her videos are perfect but if one has any postural imbalances it might be very difficult to keep the back from rounding. Weak abs and tight hip flexors and hamstrings will also contribute to poor form.

Stopping at or just below the knee is recommended. Remember that it is not how low you go but how hard you squeeze. :7

-Roe
 
Roe,

I haven't even attempted them yet -- I was accumulating all of this excellent advice before I tried them again. You, Ann, and all of the others are right: I can't be proud about it, because pride comes before the fall, as the saying goes! And, I don't want to fall and be down and out for weeks or even months because of sheer stupidity.

I will definitely modify, keep my weights ABOVE my knees, shoulders back, abs IN, back straight, knees unlocked, weights reasonable. And, if after all those modifications, it still hurts, I'm just gonna have to eliminate 'em, plain and simple as that.

Thanks fellow Cathe-ites!

-Deb
 
Ann,

Apparently, I am too -- I gotta figure out how to check PM's. Hang on...

I just checked -- it says I have no new inbox messages. Am I checking the right place? :+

-Deb
 
Deb,

May I suggest that you look into pilates training? It's not a substitute for medical expertise, but an experienced pilates instructor can help you strengthen your core & teach you how to modify standard exercises. The instructor will need to know what limitations have been set by a p.t.

I also attend a restorative yoga class but I think this instructor is probably 1 in a million. Class members range from those of us trying to improve our range of motion to those trying to work with serious restrictions. As you can imagine, back issues are common. The instructor focuses on strengthening the core & improving hamstring & hip flexor flexibility for those with back problems.

Hope this gives you some areas to explore.

Debra
 
Debra,

Thanks for the advice. I've heard nothing but positive things about Pilates, and feel it's worth a look-see.

I have not been given any set limitations by a PT, all I know is when I overdo it. This is particularly true when I am housecleaning. I get to the point where I HAVE to sit down, or else I think my lower back vertebrae will come through my stomach, or vice versa. And, it's always when I'm in the middle of something, or when I'm on a roll and don't want to stop. Ha! I know better than to keep pushing. There was a time when I would do that...

Just previewed Imax2 from the Intensity Series -- 'not sure my back will be able to handle all that jumping. It made my knees hurt just watching our spry, able leader (Cathe) do all those leaps and jumps! May have to truly modify that one. 10 intervals is ALOT for anyone, anyway! :eek:

Thanks again!

Deb
 
Hi Deb,

I myself am going through something similar - what started out as 'bulging disks' - has now turned into a herniated disk at L5-S1. With sciatic pain and nerve damage down my left leg.
How did this start?
While picking up a barbell loaded w/30 lbs. (During Cathe's PLB, believe it or not.) I "thought" I was doing it correctly, but something 'let go' in my back and now I'm paying for it.
As of now, I haven't worked out in over 2 months while waiting for the disk to 'reabsorb' and heal, I've had one trip to the ER for the pain, and am now on NSAID's and vicadin for the pain so I can lead a somewhat normal life at this point. (If you can call not working out normal, lol). Right now I'm afraid to even pick up a 5lb dumbell.

All the advice you've received so far is great - but I wanted to add one more thing - don't just worry about your workouts, and what you can and can't do. Worry about the everyday things - how you pick up things, how you bend over, how you sit, how you stand, how you lay down and get up. Be extra careful how you pick up a dumbell and a barbell. Always be conscious of these things. Your PT can show you the correct way to do these things when you have a 'vulnerable' back.

Good luck,
Sandy
 
I'm actually thinking of selling my IMax 2 for exactly that reason. It's so hard to modify all that jumping that I just don't even bother doing it. So I almost feel like I should just sell it rather than torture myself.
 
Have you ever read Dr. Sarno's, "Healing Back Pain"? It is a little unconventional but it helped me tremendously. Actually it was the only treatment that helped me overcome my 2 herniated disks in the lower back. I was doing physical therapy and taking a multitude of narcotic pain killers and steroids. I was initally told by my doctors that I needed to find a different workout routine (get rid of the step aerobics and weight lifting were not a good choice) if I wanted to avoid surgery.

I've worked so hard to get where I am that I just couldn't accept that plan of care. Someone told me about this book and I was desperate enough that I bought it. I was very skeptical while I was reading it but decided I would read the entire book and keep an open mind. I have basically had little or no back pain for two years now and when I do get it I go right back to this book for a quick read. I have not quit my normal workout routine either and I've actually intensified it. My sister, who has had a long history of back pain, read this book and has similiar results.

Dr. Sarno also has a website with information about his treatments.
http://www.healingbackpain.com/index2.html
 
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