Are some complex carbs better than others?

[LauraMax]

I recently had a discussion w/a trainer at my gym who told me stuff like bread & fruit weren't as good as pasta & rice for weight loss. He said breads & fruits burn off more quickly & therefore you won't lose weight as fast.

I'm not sure how this makes sense. I thought once you burn off your carb supply your body turns to fat as its alternative energy source. Which is why low carb diets are so effective--b/c if your body doesn't have carbs as an energy source it starts burning fat immediately.

BUT, if you throw in the latest news that increased muscle mass increases your metabolism, & if you start burning muscle mass once your carbs are depleted, it'd make more sense. However, this advice came from a very tall, lean man who likely has trouble building muscle (he's told me before he only does cardio 2X a week). I think my body reverts to burning fat after the carbs are gone, & he probably burns muscle.

I'm so confused! I went off Atkins b/c there are so many foods I love that aren't allowed. I don't want to give up fruits & whole grains again, but I do want to lose a few lbs. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

[jonahnah]

Hmmm, I haven't heard that before. The only reason I could see avoiding bread is because gluten intolerance can lead to bloating & ab weight gain, even if it's mild intolerance. Of course, you have wheat in pasta too--unless the semolina wheat flour has a lower gluten content?? (Is it semolina in pasta or durum? I forget...) As far as avoiding fruit, maybe just too much sugar??

You could always try it for a week, see what happens and if it doesn't work, throw your rotten fruit and moldy bread at the guy.

 

[dorothyrd]

It possibly could be the process the body goes through to get the fruits and bread to the form it needs, glucose. Fruit's form are closer to glucose, so it is quicker to break down and get into the blood stream. Certain high fiber starches take more work for the body to break down, therefore have a slower release. Plus anthing high in fiber is better, because fiber is not broken down for fuel, it is just passed. It is also used to bind with bile. Bile is made from cholesterol. If fiber binds with the bile, the body has to use existing cholesterol to make more bile, which is why more fiber is cholesterol lowering.

However, I think fruits have so many benefits, that I would not advocate eliminating them.

 

[kathryn]

According to Neal Barnard, the more finely ground a carbohydrate is (as in flour made from the product), the more easily the body breaks it down, and the more calorie impact there is from it. Eating grains whole (or perhaps cracked) rather than products made from flour of whole grains (breads, cereals), even the same amount, can cause weight loss (I stuck to this for a few weeks a while back, and it did work).

One exception he noted was pasta: because of the the way the flour is compacted to make the pasta, it didn't have the same effect as other flour products.

 

[fit44]

John Berardi's Precision nutrition instructs us to eat fruits and or/ veggies with every meal. There is no fruit or veggie off limits. They are vital to our health.

Read JB's article on Acid Base Diets.
http://johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/bases.htm

On the PN plan, starches are limited to post workout.
This works great for me. My body responds to less starch, but I love it. I eat it early in the day to ensure I burn it off.

Here is another article JB wrote you may find helpful.

http://johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/leaneating_2.htm

 

[LauraMax]

OK that actually sounds similar to what he was trying to say. Probably he used confusing (at least to me) terminology. He said fruit is good for me, but I shouldn't eat it after about noon.

But aren't breads high fiber? I def. don't want to give up bread, but I don't see myself fitting into my morning meal. I LOVE bread! I ADORE bread!

 

[Vee]

I think it is possible to lose weight the old fashioned way - by avoiding refined carbs and eating low fat. I have lost/maintained when eating fruits - even a lot of them and controlled portions of whole-wheat bread/brown rice/pasta at two of my daily meals.

If you are looking to achieve really low body-fat and want muscle definition you should look at reducing % calories from carbs. Perception of people I know who have "fitness mag cover bodies" is that bread is not as good an idea to get the six pack to show.

I have decided no to do the severely restricted diet thing any more. I find I dont have the will power to sustain. I find I alternate bouts of too strict with crazy eating. I have much more success with consistency with moderation.

So my suggestion to you Laura is to try something less extreme for a few weeks and see what results you get before deciding if you need to eliminate bread and fruit.

Fruit is good for you - fiber, antioxidants, and they keep cravings for sweets at bay.

 

[kathryn]

Fruit is good for you - fiber, antioxidants, and they keep cravings for sweets at bay.

I agree. Much better to have a piece of fruit than a piece of candy.

They also have good water content, and phytonutrients that are hard to find in other foods.

And you can emphsize the lower-sugar-content fruits (ie: berries/plums/pears/apples) and limit or omit those with higher sugar content (bananas or dried fruits). Though Medjool dates are a nice, 'candy'-like treat!

 

[LauraMax]

I have decided no to do the severely restricted diet thing any more. I find I dont have the will power to sustain. I find I alternate bouts of too strict with crazy eating. I have much more success with consistency with moderation.

I'm with you on that. After 20 years of watching every bite I take, I'm ready to relax & enjoy a well balanced, moderate, healthy diet.

So, I guess my abs will never show again. I'm not thrilled about it, but I won't lose sleep over it.

And I'm never giving up bread again. Even for a week.

 

[trigirl63]

glycemic:

sounds like you are refuring to low and high glycemic carbs. breads especially white and fruits break down to blood glucose faster and spike blood sugar. lower glycemic carbs don't . but you should have fruit they person said before berries, apples etc. but if eaten with protein and healthy fats. its slows the absorbtion down, and doesn't spike blood sugar. thats why it's good to eat a little protein with every meal.

 

[dorothyrd]

OK that actually sounds similar to what he was trying to say. Probably he used confusing (at least to me) terminology. He said fruit is good for me, but I shouldn't eat it after about noon.

But aren't breads high fiber? I def. don't want to give up bread, but I don't see myself fitting into my morning meal. I LOVE bread! I ADORE bread!

The problem with most breads on the market are they are fairly processed, and because of this do break down quicker than other type of starches. However, do some label reading, pay attention to the amount of fiber compared to the total carbs, and pick breads with more fiber.

I got the book Glycemic Index for Dummies last year, it was helpful in understanding the way the body breaks down foods. I also just finished a college level nutrition class, which underlined a lot of things I already knew about nutrition. Go to the library and check out some nutrition books that just do the job of explaining what happens with food once it gets in the body, and it may help you to see why some things are better choices than others.

 

[amyg]

The simpler the sugar/glucose the more insulin you require to keep your blood glucose levels stable as you digest the carbohydrates and they enter your blood stream. One of insulin's functions in the body is to move fat from the bloodstream and store it. The more insulin in your body, therefore, the more likely you are to have additional fat stored in your body.

A more complex carbohydrate is complex because the digestion is slowed down. When carbohydrates enter the bloodstream more slowly, the insulin required is lower because your body is better able to manage keeping your blood glucose levels stable and you don't need a big load all at once to manage the big spike of glucose.

Atkins works because it drastically lowers your body's levels of insulin as you stop consuming carbohydrates. Insulin is really only produced to manage the glucose in your bloodstream so it is not as critically required to manage glucose levels if you stop eating carbohydrates. Without insulin, any fat you eat is not carried or stored normally in your body so your body resorts to burning stored fat. Ketones from this process are a byproduct of consuming the stored fat without sufficient insulin in your body; without any insulin these byproducts end up turning your blood acidic and you can die. Kidneys move the ketones into your urine as waste; when you stop eating carbohydrates on the first few days of Atkins the fruity smell in your urine is ketones.

A fresh fruit is generally quickly digested. A "bread" as the person at your gym described may have been white bread which is relatively simple for your body to digest and dump into your bloodstream. However, pasta and rice are pretty simple too-- just like white bread, traditional pasta enters your bloodstream quickly. A whole wheat pasta is considered "better" because it takes slightly longer for your body to digest in the same way brown rice is considered "better" in that it takes slightly longer to digest than white rice does.

 

[LauraMax]

OK, I just read that 3 times & there's smoke coming out of my ears.

So, the 18 grain bread & whole grain pasta is OK? Not great, but OK? Probably better for lunch than dinner? Do labels give me the glycemic index? How else can I know the complexity of a food? Can I fit anymore questions into this paragraph?

 

[amyg]

LOL try living with diabetes where my pancreas makes no insulin and I have to figure it out myself Laura! Every.thing.I.have.put.in.my.mouth.since.1988.

So anyway, the glycemic index is a guide not a bible. Labels will not give you a glycemic index you'll just need to look at carbohydrate and ingredient lists. You probably already know or can do a simple search for what carbohydrates are generally more/less complex.

Time of day has relatively NOTHING to do with what you eat. Your metabolic rate varies throughout the day so that's where that may come into play. For example, I require more insulin in the mornings than evenings because in the mornings my body releases more hormones as I wake up than it does in the middle of the afternoon. (Insulin is the only hormone to lower blood glucose; all other hormones raise blood glucose.)

 

[kathryn]

Do labels give me the glycemic index? How else can I know the complexity of a food? Can I fit anymore questions into this paragraph?

There are books out that talk about the glycemic index and give lists of foods (probably could find a list on the web as well).

Just to complicated things, there's also a "glycemic load" which is more indicative of the effect the food has on your body. For example, carrots are high glycemic but if you only ate a small amount, or ate them with fats/proteins, their glycemic load would be quite low. Carrot juice is quite high glycemic, because the fiber is removed and it's concentrated carrots.

 

[Lynn M.]

Laura Max-

I think a general guideline into deciding what makes a carb, good or not, is to look at the fiber and protein content of the total food.

If there is 3 or more gms of fiber in a serving, I would call that a good carb. A general rule of thumb to follow would be 3 gms of fiber or more/for every 100 calories.

Also alot of time manufacturers will replace some of the carbs with soy protein or soy isolate so the label will read slightly higher in protein.. You will find this alot in "light breads", light tortillas, and some pastas. I try to eat alot of these type of foods, since you can get alot of fiber + some protein in one shot. ( Not always the tastiest though!)

Lastly, sometimes the names can be very deceiving.. a manufacturer will say something is made w/ whole grain when if you read the label, isn't all that nutritious. One example that comes to mind is Lucky Charms cereal.. Yup... the advertising states, made w/ whole grains.!

Take care, Lynn M.

 

[LauraMax]

Thanks Lynn, that's helpful. I did know that just b/c something says whole grain or whole wheat it doesn't mean it's so. Fortunately I have a gourmet grocery store about a block away, I get really good breads & such there.

I'm bumming over potatoes though. I think I love potatoes more than bread, & I think they're a big no-no.

 

[kathryn]

I'm bumming over potatoes though. I think I love potatoes more than bread, & I think they're a big no-no.

If you like mashed potatoes, try steaming some cauliflower until it's really soft, then mash it up. Tastes surprisingly similar to potatoes, but lower glycemic (what you choose to top it with, well, that's another story!).

 

[LauraMax]

If you like mashed potatoes, try steaming some cauliflower until it's really soft, then mash it up. Tastes surprisingly similar to potatoes, but lower glycemic (what you choose to top it with, well, that's another story!).

Thanks for the suggestion! I think I'm gonna try that--I heard about that on Top Chef last night. How's about fresh garlic & low fat butter? Yummy!

 

[dorothyrd]

I agree that reading labels, looking for food with 5g or higher and ignore the "claims" on packaging. Lucky Charms was used in my nutrition class to show how claims can mislead.

Also, don't beat yourself up if you should have something that is not necessarily the best for you. Moderation is always key. A sliver of cake is not going to kill you....the whole cake will.