I don't really have huge issues with bad form. I know my form isn't spectacular and I love kickboxing workouts. It's by far my favorite type of cardio. I've viewed the clip several times and even though her form does leave a lot to be desired I am still thinking about pre-ordering. It looks pretty non-stop and different from other KB workouts I have. She also said on her forum that she doesn't do a lot of TIFT in these workouts which is music to my ears.
Amy Bendo Kickboxing
- Thread starter candi
- Start date
kathryn
Cathlete
>Is the concern about an instructor's form mostly about
>avoiding injury, or is it more that it's not kickboxing in the
>"pure" form that a professional kickboxer would use? I
>wouldn't want to get injured but I guess I don't really care
>if it's not "professional" kickboxing form - we are just
>exercising here, we're not trying to actually knock out our
>opponent! It seems like in all my kickboxing videos, or the
>"kickboxing-inspired" ones like Turbo Jam, the form is
>slightly different depending on the instructor, and it doesn't
>bother me - I'm not planning on competing as a kickboxer and I
>really just want to get my heart rate up and maybe have some
>fun along the way.
For me, it's a number of things: avoiding injury, having it "look nice" (true kickbox form does look nice!), having powerful/efficient moves (that possibly one could use if needed), and using the muscles in the right way.
One reason Turbo Jam didn't interest me at all is that it plays too fast and loose with kb form.
I think there are two camps (and some people may cross between the two): those who want "authentic kickbox" type workouts (I'm in that camp), and those who prefer "kickbox-flavored cardio" and don't care as much about form.
It may also depend on 'who you learned from." I started kickboxing/boxing videos with instructors who actually had black belts in something or were boxing instructors. After learning and seeing good, authentic form, it's sometimes hard to look at the sloppy stuff. Like watching the pros and Mario Lopez on "Dancing with the Stars," and getting used to how that looks (and how beautiful it is) and then seeing Jerry Springer do his Passo Doble.;-)
>avoiding injury, or is it more that it's not kickboxing in the
>"pure" form that a professional kickboxer would use? I
>wouldn't want to get injured but I guess I don't really care
>if it's not "professional" kickboxing form - we are just
>exercising here, we're not trying to actually knock out our
>opponent! It seems like in all my kickboxing videos, or the
>"kickboxing-inspired" ones like Turbo Jam, the form is
>slightly different depending on the instructor, and it doesn't
>bother me - I'm not planning on competing as a kickboxer and I
>really just want to get my heart rate up and maybe have some
>fun along the way.
For me, it's a number of things: avoiding injury, having it "look nice" (true kickbox form does look nice!), having powerful/efficient moves (that possibly one could use if needed), and using the muscles in the right way.
One reason Turbo Jam didn't interest me at all is that it plays too fast and loose with kb form.
I think there are two camps (and some people may cross between the two): those who want "authentic kickbox" type workouts (I'm in that camp), and those who prefer "kickbox-flavored cardio" and don't care as much about form.
It may also depend on 'who you learned from." I started kickboxing/boxing videos with instructors who actually had black belts in something or were boxing instructors. After learning and seeing good, authentic form, it's sometimes hard to look at the sloppy stuff. Like watching the pros and Mario Lopez on "Dancing with the Stars," and getting used to how that looks (and how beautiful it is) and then seeing Jerry Springer do his Passo Doble.;-)
bestoutwest
Cathlete
>I don't really have huge issues with bad form. I know my
>form isn't spectacular and I love kickboxing workouts. It's by
>far my favorite type of cardio. I've viewed the clip several
>times and even though her form does leave a lot to be desired
>I am still thinking about pre-ordering. It looks pretty
>non-stop and different from other KB workouts I have. She
>also said on her forum that she doesn't do a lot of TIFT in
>these workouts which is music to my ears.
Pardon my ignorance, but what is TIFT? Thanks!:7
>form isn't spectacular and I love kickboxing workouts. It's by
>far my favorite type of cardio. I've viewed the clip several
>times and even though her form does leave a lot to be desired
>I am still thinking about pre-ordering. It looks pretty
>non-stop and different from other KB workouts I have. She
>also said on her forum that she doesn't do a lot of TIFT in
>these workouts which is music to my ears.
Pardon my ignorance, but what is TIFT? Thanks!:7
WRITER
Cathlete
I saw the clips, and I am disappointed. It's not just the form, but the combos look awkward to me. I really want to like this workout, because I want new kickboxing options -- but I am afraid I won't enjoy the combos. Maybe I'm just having trouble making the move from seeing it to what it would be like doing it. But, I'm not as eager to pre-order as I was before.
>I tried again and was able to view the clip. I actually
>think it looks like it could be a good workout. I'm not going
>to knock anyone's form, because I'm sure mine gets pretty wild
>sometimes, too. Heck, I did Cardio Kicks for years before I
>read on here that Cathe didn't have good form! I don't care!
>I always got a good workout, because I was swinging and
>kicking right along with them. With Amy's workout, it looks
>like she has a lot of very fast combos, which I'm sure makes
>it harder to maintain good form. JMHO!!
>
To be honest with you, I have done many martial arts inspired workouts and I have yet to see an instructor who has excellent form AND execution. Look at a simple front snap kick. Most instructors execute the kick like this: lift knee (chamber...sort of they almost always forget to remind folks to prep the foot also. Are you kicking with your instep, ball or heel...that does make the difference between a kick and a broken ankle if one was to actually make contact), extend leg (kick,) bring leg in as you lower.
A front snap is a four count kick (as is a side kick, a round house kick and a back kick): chamber, extend, bring leg back in fast (snap out, AND snap leg back in) lower leg to fighting stance (which ever stance you threw the kick from in most cases.) I have yet to see different stances combined with these very basic moves allowing movement and traveling as one might in an actual martial arts class.
I was actually thinking about getting certified to teach kickboxing because I was sick off all of the poor instruction out there, but when I got the materials, my jaw dropped when I saw the blackbelt who was teaching this course demonstrate some of the poorest form and execution I've ever seen. I sent the course back; but that did explain to me why there is so much excessive leaning back on front kicks,(there is no need to lean far back unless you are getting out of the way of a strike or weapon) side kicks being executed like round house kicks, backs hunched, sloppy floppy arm movements (all in the name of keeping it loose). And why don't instructors teach real blocks? A true high block, low block, inside to out or outside to in forearm block, a palm block, a knife edge block, a knee block or a kick block?
I had one of the very first kickboxing inspired videos called 'Original KIA Aerobics', that demonstrated moving attacks and combined it with moving blocks to defend yourself from the exact attack moves you had just used. It was sort of gritty and unpolished seeing that at the time it was an orginal, but I liked the idea. The moves were executed slower because they were complete, and the traveling moves kept you low in a deep squat to maintain strong balance and power in the thighs as you moved. Too bad the producers of this workout didn't continue.
Sorry for the rant. I've been studying martial arts for 31 years now and I guess what I'm trying to say is that it appears that few fitness instructors demonstrate even the most basic of martial arts moves correctly in a fitness class, and lets face it, it takes hours of working drills on each move to become proficient at executing them correctly. What we really get is THEIR own take on how to use these moves in their class so just be careful, listen to your body and like the rest of the workout, make it work for you.
>think it looks like it could be a good workout. I'm not going
>to knock anyone's form, because I'm sure mine gets pretty wild
>sometimes, too. Heck, I did Cardio Kicks for years before I
>read on here that Cathe didn't have good form! I don't care!
>I always got a good workout, because I was swinging and
>kicking right along with them. With Amy's workout, it looks
>like she has a lot of very fast combos, which I'm sure makes
>it harder to maintain good form. JMHO!!
>
To be honest with you, I have done many martial arts inspired workouts and I have yet to see an instructor who has excellent form AND execution. Look at a simple front snap kick. Most instructors execute the kick like this: lift knee (chamber...sort of they almost always forget to remind folks to prep the foot also. Are you kicking with your instep, ball or heel...that does make the difference between a kick and a broken ankle if one was to actually make contact), extend leg (kick,) bring leg in as you lower.
A front snap is a four count kick (as is a side kick, a round house kick and a back kick): chamber, extend, bring leg back in fast (snap out, AND snap leg back in) lower leg to fighting stance (which ever stance you threw the kick from in most cases.) I have yet to see different stances combined with these very basic moves allowing movement and traveling as one might in an actual martial arts class.
I was actually thinking about getting certified to teach kickboxing because I was sick off all of the poor instruction out there, but when I got the materials, my jaw dropped when I saw the blackbelt who was teaching this course demonstrate some of the poorest form and execution I've ever seen. I sent the course back; but that did explain to me why there is so much excessive leaning back on front kicks,(there is no need to lean far back unless you are getting out of the way of a strike or weapon) side kicks being executed like round house kicks, backs hunched, sloppy floppy arm movements (all in the name of keeping it loose). And why don't instructors teach real blocks? A true high block, low block, inside to out or outside to in forearm block, a palm block, a knife edge block, a knee block or a kick block?
I had one of the very first kickboxing inspired videos called 'Original KIA Aerobics', that demonstrated moving attacks and combined it with moving blocks to defend yourself from the exact attack moves you had just used. It was sort of gritty and unpolished seeing that at the time it was an orginal, but I liked the idea. The moves were executed slower because they were complete, and the traveling moves kept you low in a deep squat to maintain strong balance and power in the thighs as you moved. Too bad the producers of this workout didn't continue.
Sorry for the rant. I've been studying martial arts for 31 years now and I guess what I'm trying to say is that it appears that few fitness instructors demonstrate even the most basic of martial arts moves correctly in a fitness class, and lets face it, it takes hours of working drills on each move to become proficient at executing them correctly. What we really get is THEIR own take on how to use these moves in their class so just be careful, listen to your body and like the rest of the workout, make it work for you.
allwildgirl
Cathlete
Dee Dee:
I think you answered yourself there. These are kickbox INSPIRED workouts. Nobody is planning to go out and fight using the moves they are learning, so it doesn't really matter if the foot isn't in the right position so as not to break the ankle, or if we're not learning the correct fighting stance or movements.
These aren't purporting to be actual martial arts classes. They are cardio kickboxing, not real kickboxing. As far as I know, there are no REAL kickboxing dvds out there, just workouts using some of the martial arts moves in a series of patterns designed to elevate the heart rate and give you a good workout.
I think you answered yourself there. These are kickbox INSPIRED workouts. Nobody is planning to go out and fight using the moves they are learning, so it doesn't really matter if the foot isn't in the right position so as not to break the ankle, or if we're not learning the correct fighting stance or movements.
These aren't purporting to be actual martial arts classes. They are cardio kickboxing, not real kickboxing. As far as I know, there are no REAL kickboxing dvds out there, just workouts using some of the martial arts moves in a series of patterns designed to elevate the heart rate and give you a good workout.
If you are aware of good form (even when the instructor might be a bit off) then it is pretty easy to follow along and use your judgment. If you enjoy the instructor and the w/o enough, then go for it!
Debbie
*(Calvin): People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. (Hobbes): Isn't your pants' zipper supposed to be in the front?
Debbie
*(Calvin): People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. (Hobbes): Isn't your pants' zipper supposed to be in the front?
bestoutwest
Cathlete
>I can't say I always notice that the form is less than
>perfect and I would agree with others that having a fun,
>effective, safe workout is what matters. I have other hobbies
>and interests aside from excercise and I don't wish to
>preoccupy myself with becoming a kickboxing expert.
Well said, Beavs! I think most of us who are looking for a fun, cadio workout are smart enough not to try moves that we can't do or that might seem unsafe. I don't do the pivots in Kick Max, because I don't like how my knees feel when I do them. For me it's all about fun and keeping my heart rate up. I'm not looking to fight anyone and am not doing these workouts to prepare for self defense!
>perfect and I would agree with others that having a fun,
>effective, safe workout is what matters. I have other hobbies
>and interests aside from excercise and I don't wish to
>preoccupy myself with becoming a kickboxing expert.
Well said, Beavs! I think most of us who are looking for a fun, cadio workout are smart enough not to try moves that we can't do or that might seem unsafe. I don't do the pivots in Kick Max, because I don't like how my knees feel when I do them. For me it's all about fun and keeping my heart rate up. I'm not looking to fight anyone and am not doing these workouts to prepare for self defense!
L Sass
Cathlete
So this seems pretty simple. For those people who either are bothered by the form issues or are looking for more actual kickboxing / fight training, they will pass on these. For those who are not bothered by the form issues or who can self correct and want a really good cardio workout, they may preorder, right?
Lorrie
Pain is temporary - quitting lasts forever
Candace Grasso, CC-V-6
Lorrie
Pain is temporary - quitting lasts forever
Candace Grasso, CC-V-6
>Dee Dee:
>
>I think you answered yourself there. These are kickbox
>INSPIRED workouts. Nobody is planning to go out and fight
>using the moves they are learning, so it doesn't really matter
>if the foot isn't in the right position so as not to break the
>ankle, or if we're not learning the correct fighting stance or
>movements.
>
>These aren't purporting to be actual martial arts classes.
>They are cardio kickboxing, not real kickboxing. As far as I
>know, there are no REAL kickboxing dvds out there, just
>workouts using some of the martial arts moves in a series of
>patterns designed to elevate the heart rate and give you a
>good workout.
>
>
Foot placement is part of alignment which is important in any fitness class. I get that they aren't actually teaching martial arts, but if you are going to demonstrate any move, I would think as an instructor you would want to use correct positioning and form. I do believe this is the goal of every instructor, it just doesn't work out that way some times.
>
>I think you answered yourself there. These are kickbox
>INSPIRED workouts. Nobody is planning to go out and fight
>using the moves they are learning, so it doesn't really matter
>if the foot isn't in the right position so as not to break the
>ankle, or if we're not learning the correct fighting stance or
>movements.
>
>These aren't purporting to be actual martial arts classes.
>They are cardio kickboxing, not real kickboxing. As far as I
>know, there are no REAL kickboxing dvds out there, just
>workouts using some of the martial arts moves in a series of
>patterns designed to elevate the heart rate and give you a
>good workout.
>
>
Foot placement is part of alignment which is important in any fitness class. I get that they aren't actually teaching martial arts, but if you are going to demonstrate any move, I would think as an instructor you would want to use correct positioning and form. I do believe this is the goal of every instructor, it just doesn't work out that way some times.
I preordered her Bootcamp and Kickboxing workouts and can't wait to get them. I'm ignoring all the other controversy about her because I'm willing to give anyone new to this field a second chance if they promise to kick my a$$! That said, I think I'll take Kathryn's advice and do Janis Saffel's Hardcore workout a few more times before I try Amy's, just to get my form down. Besides, it will give me a good excuse to workout with Guillermo. His form is amazing!}(
Hi Candi,
I pre-ordered Amy's 3 newest. I like her style and feel these workouts will be great. I have recieved nothing but EXCELLENT customer service from Amy. I don't really care about all the hoopla that's going on. Form isn't that much of an issue to me either. I know how to control my punches and kicks. The only way I will cause an injury is if I am careless. I have been working out long enough to know what my body should and should not do.
I agree about Janis Saffell and Kimberly Spreen (who I just discovered). They both have really great form. Especially, Janis!
I pre-ordered Amy's 3 newest. I like her style and feel these workouts will be great. I have recieved nothing but EXCELLENT customer service from Amy. I don't really care about all the hoopla that's going on. Form isn't that much of an issue to me either. I know how to control my punches and kicks. The only way I will cause an injury is if I am careless. I have been working out long enough to know what my body should and should not do.
I agree about Janis Saffell and Kimberly Spreen (who I just discovered). They both have really great form. Especially, Janis!
My problem with Amy is the way she ran her presale. If your presale price is as low as it gets, then don't lower the orice later on. And giving refunds to the people who have ordered withing the last 30 days doesn't justify falsly advertising to those who supported during the presale.
I can name about 10 other issues I've read about elsewhere, but I agree to leave it there because it involves the members there.
But I will also agree Amy's form leaves a lot to be desired!
I can name about 10 other issues I've read about elsewhere, but I agree to leave it there because it involves the members there.
But I will also agree Amy's form leaves a lot to be desired!
When I execute a kick, I position my other foot so I can maintain balance. I'm also constantly aware of any unwanted torque on my knees - this goes for any aerobics, not just kickboxing. I try to maintain power and control in my punches. Those are my guidelines, but I'm sure my form sucks.
I look for a workout that will make me sweat and have a good time doing it. Amy's workout looks like it may do just that.
As for business practices, I think the beef about Amy has been blown way out of porportion. I bought Ripped from Jari's site when it first came out at over $30. 2 weeks later, Collage carried it for less than $20, then Amazon for about $13, now people can pick up the workout at Ross for $5. Oh well, I made my choice and purchased early. I've purchased a lot of CIAs that can now be had at half the price. Amy may have made a mistake by saying "never" ('cause we all know to never say "never"), but we've all made mistakes haven't we?
Diane
I look for a workout that will make me sweat and have a good time doing it. Amy's workout looks like it may do just that.
As for business practices, I think the beef about Amy has been blown way out of porportion. I bought Ripped from Jari's site when it first came out at over $30. 2 weeks later, Collage carried it for less than $20, then Amazon for about $13, now people can pick up the workout at Ross for $5. Oh well, I made my choice and purchased early. I've purchased a lot of CIAs that can now be had at half the price. Amy may have made a mistake by saying "never" ('cause we all know to never say "never"), but we've all made mistakes haven't we?
Diane
bestoutwest
Cathlete
>I agree Janis Saffel has outstanding form. The problem is, I
>don't sweat as much as I like with Janis, but I do like her
>workouts. I saw crescent kicks the first time on one of her
>DVD's.
>
>Can someone point me to where I can view Amy's workout?
Here you go!
http://www.nrgfitness.net/videos.html#ex1
>don't sweat as much as I like with Janis, but I do like her
>workouts. I saw crescent kicks the first time on one of her
>DVD's.
>
>Can someone point me to where I can view Amy's workout?
Here you go!
http://www.nrgfitness.net/videos.html#ex1
kathryn
Cathlete
> I had one of the very first kickboxing inspired videos called
>'Original KIA Aerobics', that demonstrated moving attacks and
>combined it with moving blocks to defend yourself from the
>exact attack moves you had just used. It was sort of gritty
>and unpolished seeing that at the time it was an orginal, but
>I liked the idea.
I had that one two, and really liked it (one instructional video, and two different workouts, I think).
>'Original KIA Aerobics', that demonstrated moving attacks and
>combined it with moving blocks to defend yourself from the
>exact attack moves you had just used. It was sort of gritty
>and unpolished seeing that at the time it was an orginal, but
>I liked the idea.
I had that one two, and really liked it (one instructional video, and two different workouts, I think).