A common theme is emerging...

[Zozo]

It seems to me that A LOT of people on these forums (including me, and I am only 17) have knee problems. Is this a sign that the kind of cardio that we all love so much is actually BAD for us? It seems strange to me that we are all so devoted to Cathe's workouts, but are developing injuries from doing them. It scares me that my joints hurt even though I'm only 17... but it hasn't stopped me from ordering shock cardio, and from frquently doing high impact cardio... is it an illness?

 

[Gayle]

I'll toss out my experience...

I think the legwork in a lot of DVD workouts (not just Cathe's) have a tendency to be rather quad-centric (think shallow/partial squatting) and don't spend enough time balancing out work on the hamstring muscles.

Women already have a greater risk of knee issues due to our larger "Q" angle, a greater tendency to favor the quad muscles, and the muscle imbalances created between the quads and hamstrings through quad-centric training make us more prone to injury.

NPR did a pretty nice piece on what I'm talking about. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=93309486

Since my ACL tear a few years back, I've changed my training strategy significantly.

 

[Zozo]

That was so interesting Thank you for posting that link
It makes a lot of sense too. It frustrates me so much though! Exercise is good for you.. but potentially crippling: I see unfair contradictions

 

[Afreet]

Hi there:

I agree with the previous poster, that knee problems can be avoided with proper training. Also, I have heard repeatedly about studies that show that exercisers are LESS likely to develop knee problems than their sedentary counterparts --here's one such reference:

Stanford’s Arthritis Center compared the knee problems of runners and non-exercisers ages 50 years and older over an eight-year period and found that the exercisers experienced 60 percent fewer knee problems than their sedentary counterparts. In another study, researchers at the Boston University Medical School tracked the development of knee arthritis in older adults for nine years and found that exercisers had no greater or lower risk for developing osteoarthritis of the knees. So while exercising may not delay the progression of osteoarthritis of the knees, it doesn’t appear to accelerate it either.

That being said, I have experienced knee pain periodically throughout my exercise career. Sometimes I think I was just overtraining, so if I took a few days or a week off, I recovered quickly.

I also find that cross-training, i.e., running one day, doing weight work the next, then kickboxing, then yoga, etc. really prevents knee pain and injuries. I do some form of exercise every day now and I don't ever have joint pain anymore. Like the previous poster, I also try to incorporate training that helps maintain a balance of flexibility and strength in my leg muscles, which probably also helps.

 

[maddiesmum]

I totally agree with Gayle.

Doing extensive and only Cathe leg work from her DVDs did not prevent me from double knee patellofemoral syndrome last year, which reached a crisis point during my 2 week hiking trip in the Rockies, thus spoiling my holiday. It was only during PT and rehab that I learned that while squats and lunges are excellent, I needed a total approach to lower body training, working inner and outer thigh, hamstrings and all 3 sections of the glute muscle groups, not just the quadcentric exercises and emphasis on the gluteus maximus I was getting. In addition, I needed more proprioception work: balance and stability exercises. The best leg training includes barbell and heavy weight work, but is a balanced approach between all the muscles, and also involves small, slow, non-weighted discreet work with bands and stability ball to prevent knee problems. In this sense, doing three sets of hamstring stability ball roll ins is just as important as doing 3 sets of barbell squats and is far better for me than deadlifts.

Some of the most balanced lower body work Cathe has ever done is to be found on the floor work section of GS legs and in the bonus leg work on STS. Any physical therapist would have you doing these exercises weekly to treat and prevent knee problems.

The point about the Shock Cardio program is that it is all high intensity, with an emphasis on HIIT, and it is not advisable to do it every day: 2 or 3 days per week max. You need balance between your high impact and your low impact work where cardio is concerned and between your heavy weight and non-weighted work where resistance training is involved.

Sometimes it takes time out with an injury for an individual exerciser to work out exactly what she should be doing. I am now running up to 6 miles several times per week pain free and loving it. My resistance training involves some weighted work with Cathe, PT based exercises with bands, tunes and stability ball and using the weight machines at a local gym. It's working for me.

Edited to add:
have just read the NPR link from Gayle's post and it is right on. Both my daughters are participating as study subjects for the Exercise Physiology and Endocrinology departments of the U of Michigan in Ann Arbor, MI, where my eldest is helping them determine the role female hormones play in putting girls and women at greater risk for ACL injures and my youngest is helping with research into best training techniques for female soccer players to prevent ACL injury. I am hoping to keep my 13 year old outer mid-fielder injury free as she plays and grows.

Clare

 

[Zozo]

These replies are so interestiing thank you. But also, I find they are quite relieving too

I too have found that my joints are far happier if I mix up my training

 

[kathryn]

I see quite a few posts that suggest that some people are pushing themselves to the point where injury might occur (some don't want to take a day off of working out, some consistently do 2-hours of workouts a day, some have pretty obvious signs of overtraining but still don't want to cut back, some seem to do primarily high impact with not a lot of variety of modalities, some have a pain here or there but try to find a way to work through it rather than getting it checked out or taking care of it).

I think it's important to build up to more intense exercise (including after you've taken some time off and are getting back into things). Injuries and joint soreness can be the result of trying to advance too far, too soon.

Everyone is different, so what is 'too much' or 'risky' for one person is not for another. We all have to learn what works best for us and to listen to the signals our bodies are sending us.

 

[jacqued]

I see quite a few posts that suggest that some people are pushing themselves to the point where injury might occur (some don't want to take a day off of working out, some consistently do 2-hours of workouts a day, some have pretty obvious signs of overtraining but still don't want to cut back, some seem to do primarily high impact with not a lot of variety of modalities, some have a pain here or there but try to find a way to work through it rather than getting it checked out or taking care of it).

I think it's important to build up to more intense exercise (including after you've taken some time off and are getting back into things). Injuries and joint soreness can be the result of trying to advance too far, too soon.

Everyone is different, so what is 'too much' or 'risky' for one person is not for another. We all have to learn what works best for us and to listen to the signals our bodies are sending us.

What Kathryn said is so true! I also wanted to add that I have no knee problems and I've been doing Cathe's workouts for 15 years now. It is important not to overtrain, to mix things up and always listen to your body.

 

[Beavs]

some have a pain here or there but try to find a way to work through it rather than getting it checked out or taking care of it).

I do have pain here and there and I have been to my primary doctor as well as two orthos, went through the usual battery of tests, and no can seem to figure it out. Last night as I was working out I had a twinge of pain but was able to work through it. It felt better with stretching and icing and I think I have to come to terms with realizing that stretching (specific to my knee issue as well as the usual stretches) and icing must be built into my workout schedule, not matter how tempting it is to jump in the shower afterward and call it a day.

 

[kathryn]

I have to come to terms with realizing that stretching (specific to my knee issue as well as the usual stretches) and icing must be built into my workout schedule, not matter how tempting it is to jump in the shower afterward and call it a day.

I've also seen here and on Vf quite a few posts by people who don't do the warm-up and/or final stretch. That's another risk factor, IMO, for injury.

I've also found that as I get older, I need a longer warm-up, and some workouts skimp in that area (nope, 2 minutes is NOT enough time to get everything ready for high intensity!). The more intense the workout, the longer the warm-up to it should be, IMO.

 

[Beavs]

I have to agree Kathryn. As much as I love CLX I find the warm up section rather cheesy and usually use a Cathe segment to warm up to instead. I've also incorporated a Classic Stretch session in my weekly workouts...these are amazing programs and thanks to Miss Lee for recommending them!

 

[Aquajock]

At the ripe old age of 48, I have never once had a knee problem, nor any other joint problem (or muscle strain problem) that required medical intervention. Here is what has worked for me (many of the following echo what others have already posted):

Be consistent with your workout program on a week-in, week-out basis;

Get good at several different cardio formats that vary impact forces and ranges / planes of motion (running, step, kickbox, bootcamp-style, hi/lo, swimming and other aquatic work, power walking, plyometric drills), and keep a varied weekly-to-monthly program incorporating these;

Wear proper footwear, and don't let your athletic shoes burn out; replace them when you feel your feet hurting and lesser stability on landing and lateral moves; also wear good socks!;

Make sure the flooring in your workout area is appropriate to the formats you are doing, especially higher-impact formats;

Develop and maintain a proper, total-body strength training routine or system that incorporates closed-chain and open-chain drills, especially for the lower body if the knee joint is an issue;

Be judicious about training for competitive, athletic events; often, the training gets so focused on winning or getting through the event that it becomes limited and lends itself to overtraining select joints and muscle groups (I must disclose that I have never trained for an athletic event, nor will I; just not my cuppa tea);

ETA: I totally agree about the value of a good warm-up and a cooldown stretch. Although there is a great deal of controversy about the optimum duration of a stretch in the warm-up phase, I personally respond best to a warm-up that lasts 8-10 minutes, a prestretch that lasts for 2-3 minutes tops, and my cooldown stretch takes about 15 minutes and is a total-body one (I've stolen many yoga asanas for this);

Maintain an appropriate body weight (achieved through a good, well-rounded workout program and a healthy, manageable nutrition program); much of the danger of impact work can be the result of too much force required to go into the flight phase and landing phase of a higher-impact move);

Understand that fitness cannot be stored. Not at any age. If you maintain the aforementioned good, well-rounded workout and nutritional program now, you will be at far, far smaller risk of having to fight your way back to fitness, or indeed simple mobility, at an older age.

Zozo, I'm glad that you are asking questions here and now. Keep comin' back!

A-Jock

 

[Zozo]

A-Jock, thank you for your wonderful reply
It is very inspiring
I THINK my problem has been my workout shoes. For so long I was just working out in cheap shoes. Ihave recently purchased new balance trainers, and cannot believe the difference!

I will definitely ensure that I keep a good variety of cardio too It sounds like good advice. I tend to prefer hi/lo, so I will try and vary it a little more. What a shame.. I may have to invest in a few more dvds...
thank you

 

[Beavs]

I would also recommend a visit to the podiatrist to see if there are any issues that need to be corrected. They can hook you up with inserts, even those specially made for your feet to keep the legs happy. My insurance doesn't cover them but one of these days I am going to have them made.

I have also been told that many of us tall folks are more likely to encounter knee issues. All in all, exercise beats the alternative. Anything to that increases my chances of avoiding a cardiac rehab unit or diabetes and dialysis is well with the knee issues in my book

 

[Jennifit]

A-jock - I love your advice!

My experience: I have been doing HIGH impact, running marathons, running cross country, teaching fitness classes, doing plyos...and, have never had any knee problems. I am 34. I think genetics and what a-jock wrote really are important factors. I would also add that icing is one of the greatest things you can do to prevent injuries. When I was getting my master's in exercise physiology, we talked about icing during class for years. It always came back to simply icing to prevent and aid injury recovery.

The older I get, the more I think genetics play a huge role. I wish you luck with your knees!! Hang in there.

 

[Stebby]

A lot of great advice here for you, Zozo, and for all of us! I am 48 and had knee problems long before I discovered Cathe (I blew my knee out in a skiing accident in 1993, went through braces, ACL reconstruction surgery, rehab, the whole 9 yards). I have put a lot of attention since then into proper training and muscle balance. I am careful about replacing my shoes regularly, and I'm careful to cross-train. I still have occasional flare-ups, but most of the time, I'm able to do all the workouts I want to, including all my favourite Cathe DVDs, with no knee pain at all.

BTW my dad has had two knee replacements, and I am determined to avoid that. I'm also determined to keep on working out, hard, for the rest of my days.

Stebby

 

[kathryn]

I personally respond best to a warm-up that lasts 8-10 minutes, a prestretch that lasts for 2-3 minutes tops, and my cooldown stretch takes about 15 minutes and is a total-body one ...

That's very much like what I respond best to as well (though I'd even say I don't necessarily need/want a pre-stretch (at least not a static stretch). I find dynamic movements (gradually increasing intensity and ROM) or joint mobility exercises much more beneficial.

 

[Zozo]

A lot of great advice here for you, Zozo, and for all of us! I am 48 and had knee problems long before I discovered Cathe (I blew my knee out in a skiing accident in 1993, went through braces, ACL reconstruction surgery, rehab, the whole 9 yards). I have put a lot of attention since then into proper training and muscle balance. I am careful about replacing my shoes regularly, and I'm careful to cross-train. I still have occasional flare-ups, but most of the time, I'm able to do all the workouts I want to, including all my favourite Cathe DVDs, with no knee pain at all.

BTW my dad has had two knee replacements, and I am determined to avoid that. I'm also determined to keep on working out, hard, for the rest of my days.

Stebby

Yes, there is a lot of great advice Thank you everyone!!!

 

[LasVegasFitGirl]

Knee pain

I always focus on "using my muscles and not my joints" and making sure I don't keep stepping with just the balls of my feet but stepping with more foot on the step since stepping with the ball of foot using the front of the leg more. My 2 cents just what I've learned over the years.