to fellow vegans

[hiitdogs]

But two or three 3 oz serving of meat is ok and even beneficial. Balance is the key. Following any food pyramid would do the trick.

According to who? I am not trying to convince you that going vegan or vegetarian is the right thing to do. But there is a lot of research that disputes the Food Pyramid. The food pyramid in fact recommends 6 to 11 servings of complex carbs (breads, pasta, starches), now that may be okay if you are training for a marathon several hours every day but for the rest of us it will cause diabetes and lead to obesity.

According to the pyramid we are also supposed to eat several servings of dairy, the problem is just that American dairy is homogenized, highly processed and in many cases full of chemical nasties. Not to mention the hormones and antibiotics that we ingest by eating meat, dairy, eggs and I don't even want to talk about what they feed those poor creatures. In my view this can't produce anything healthy.

That being said, just eating vegetarian or vegan doesn't necessarily mean healthier. If meat and dairy are eliminated and replaced with vegetarian highly processed food, I don't think it will do much good. There is growing consensus that a diet of mainly whole and plant based food is the healthiest diet for humans. That doesn't mean that people can't eat meat every once in a while but that's not what the Food Pyramid advocates.

The question is who really comes up with the guidelines in the Food Pyramid? Is it really nutritional experts or the lobbyists of the food industries because the Food Pyramid defies everything we know or should know about healthy eating.

http://www.naturalnews.com/002343_food_industry_food_nutrition.html

Marion Nestle's Food Politics is an interesting read as is one of my favorite books The China Study

If you are comfortable with the way you are eating, great! But that doesn't mean that those of us who don't do the same are following a fashion or fringe movement. I am eating based on what I have read about health and nutrition, and I am following what makes sense to me. It has worked well for me which can be seen in my blood work, not to mention that my endurance, strength and energy has increased.

Dog food is a totally different story. Dogs need to have meat. Period! But then again what is in most of the kibble is hardly healthy food. Reading Ann Martin's book Foods Pets Die For, sent a cold chill down my spine. I am not going to look at pet food the same way ever again.

 

[sparrow13]

I'm reading The China Study now and loving it!

 

[shelsmaha]

I Best get that book!!!

 

[LaughingWater]

At first, it seems like a lot of statistics, which is something I find difficult to enjoy. But I hung in there, and it was quite a wake up call.

Then I read The Food Revolution by John Robbins. Yikes!

 

[morningstar]

awww...Rascal says "Thanks!"

I saw a baby boxer walking on a leash today- very calm, quiet, and refined, in the midst of tons of people in a busy crosswalk. The cute thing was absolutely tiny and I fell instantly in love. I am having a very bad day today, so he was a welcome sight.

 

[kathryn]

another question what beauty products/companies do you like that you have found to be vegan? I use aveda for hair and bare minerals for foundation. What else would be good?!

I use larenim mineral foundation (they offer small sample sizes---which really last quite a long time for the eye shadows, at least on me, because I use them very lightly).
www.veganessentials.com and www.veganstore.com have some vegan makeup brands.

 

[kathryn]

My local natural pet food store sells frozen raw meat for cats too but I just can't bring myself to getting that for them.

Same here. I know a raw diet would be healthiest for them, but I just can't deal with it. (Pete did catch a June bug in my basement the other day, and after playing with it for a while, ate it in front of me...very crunchy! That's one way for them to get a raw 'natural' diet!)

 

[kathryn]

I would like to add further that human beings are designed to eat both, meat AND plant products.

In what way are we designed to eat meat? The length of our intestines, the Ph of our stomach acids and many other aspects of our anatomy are more than of an herbivore.

(And just because we can eat both plant and animal products (which improved our chances of survival in all situations) doesn't mean we must, so that argument is a moot point.)

 

[kathryn]

Well, start looking at your teeth: They are both, for plant eaters and carnivores. Second, the digestion tract. The enzymes in the stomach acid are designed to break down animal and plant products (horses for example are only plant eaters according to their teeth and digestive fluids). Third: In order to get 100 % of the daily nutrition values you have to eat a balanced animal and plant diet. As the humans evolved there were no artifical B12 shots, we got the B12 from animal products.

Any basic human anatomy class is teaching that humans are designed to eat both.

Vegetarians/vegans are just fashion eaters but they do not eat the way humans are designed to eat.

A balanced diet from ALL THE FOOD GROOPS is what we suppose to eat.

Teeth: most of our teeth are made for grinding. The pitiful canines we do have are hardly apt for ripping flesh off animals. And even the larger canines of earllier humans were probably more for show and dominance than for eating meat, just as chimpanzees (our cousins, sharing over 99% of the same DNA we do, in the same sequence as ours) have canines, but are primarily herbivores..

As for B12, it is produced by a bacteria that is found where there is cobalt in the soil (nowdays, soil on which conventional produce is grown often contains no cobalt, while organic soil does...according to research conducted by Johns Hopkins University). Early humans could have gotten the little B12 we need from the soil bacteria on plants (which they didn't wash the way we do), from drinking out of streams (which weren't polluted the way they are today), or even from the bacteria in their mouths (they didn't brush their teeth).

Vegans are not the only ones who need B12 nowdays, either. More and more non veg*ns have B12 deficiency, due to the lack of it in our soils.

"fashion eaters"? as in 'edible underwear'?


I do agree that we need to eat from all food groups...I don't agree that dead animals or their parts are food!

As for the food pyramid (which is only the latest iteration of a government guideline for eating, all of which have been highly influenced by special interest groups or government subsidy programs that push certain foods), there are others who offer their own, healthier, versions, such as Dr. Fuhrmans which is a nutrient-dense diet: http://drfuhrman.com/shop/pdf_produ...d+pyramid&order=r&id=98c09a506c703433&cmd=xml The top three tiers contain animal products, but they are optional ("or less", "rarely").

 

[cindi1]

Same here. I know a raw diet would be healthiest for them, but I just can't deal with it. (Pete did catch a June bug in my basement the other day, and after playing with it for a while, ate it in front of me...very crunchy! That's one way for them to get a raw 'natural' diet!)

Yes - I allow Pebbles and Lucky to eat any raw bug they can catch!

Other good books on food (for people) in addition to the China Study are: In Defense of Food, and The End of Food. End of Food touches on the whole global food system from an economic, health, and environmental perspective. In Defense of Food focuses more on health issues like China Study.

 

[Vee]

Katerchan,

Veganism/vegetarianism is not a fad. There are parts of the world where vegetarianism is a way of life and has been so for centuries. If anything, mass distribution of processed animal products, bovine growth hormone and modern poultry/dairy farming/etc methods is what is "new" in some parts of the world.

In India, where a significant percentage of the population abstains from meat, I see no difference in the average health of those who consume animal products versus those who dont. On both "sides" there are people who eat healthy/clean and those who eat highly-processed/junk food. The former are healthier.

Consuming or abstaining from animal products is most often a habit people are born into. Some people on either side question and make a choice to switch. This is the way I see it.

 

[WRITER]

Vegetarians/vegans are just fashion eaters but they do not eat the way humans are designed to eat.

I did a fair amount of research and a lot of thinking before I decided to become vegetarian. Although my colleagues tolerate and sometimes respect my vegetarian life style, it's not at all the "fashion" in the arenas in which I work and socialize. I wish it was the fashion!!

 

[Fit_mommy]

I hesitate to even get involved but I will speak my peace and be done with it.

My view on all of this is simple...

TO EACH HIS OWN!

It's nobody's business how anyone else on this board eats.

It's nobody's business how anyone else on this board feels about animal cruelty and the extent to which they will go to prove it. (ie: not eating/wearing animal products)

And most importantly...Cathe/Chris should not have to justify their business decisions to us!

If you don't like it, don't buy it, don't eat it, etc. It's that simple. No need to hash it out until it becomes a flame war. Agree to disagree and be done with it.

I respect the vegans/vegetarians here just as I respect those who eat/wear animal products.

I respect Cathe/Chris and their right to make business decisions that they feel are best for them and do not feel that we should be putting them in a place where they feel they need to defend these decisions.

If it is not something you agree with morally or otherwise then do what you have to do (ie: not buying Cathe dvds anymore) but to start this thread was just a mean-spirited thing to do IMO.

Okay, I feel better now....

 

[pixiesis]

If it is not something you agree with morally or otherwise then do what you have to do (ie: not buying Cathe dvds anymore) but to start this thread was just a mean-spirited thing to do IMO.

Wendy, I have no problem with anything you said, except for this. The OP wasn't trying to start any trouble, and obviously didn't know that this topic has been so hotly debated here in the past. She was in fact only asking for the opinion of fellow vegans to avoid some of what happened here. Most of this discussion has been friendly and interesting, so it's wrong to say that it's just a flame-war.

Things only got more "mean spirited" when others decided to post disrespectful comments towards vegans (who this thread was made for) and others who questioned this association.

Amy

 

[PhyllisG]

I just thought it was a pretty interesting thread and didn't take any of it personally. I was just noticing how many responses there were so it must be a topic that is interesting to people. I had also thought, for no moral or ethical reasons particularly, that their teaming up with Egglands was sort of "unusual". If it was cereal or even better peanut butter I guess I would have laughed and said that that works. I have enjoyed this thread with all the different points of view.

 

[Afreet]

I respect the vegans/vegetarians here just as I respect those who eat/wear animal products.

Thanks! That's very nice to hear.

but to start this thread was just a mean-spirited thing to do IMO.

But it isn't so awesome to have a discussion of vegan ethics called "mean spirited".

Are the people who want a modifier in Shock Cardio mean-spirited too? How about those who were unsure about all the weightlifting DVDs Cathe has released lately and wished she would do more step DVDs? Are they also overstepping their bounds?

I think it was a totally legit topic to initiate. I think the OP, like me, had a real concern and was curious about the reactions of her fellow Catheites. I'm not accusing Cathe of animal cruelty or telling her what to do - no-one is - we're talking about how her partnership will affect US and our shopping choices.

So far I think I'm the only one who has actually said that I decided to stop buying here because of the Eggland debacle. I expect Cathe's business will survive my boycott. Maybe she is interested in the ways her business decisions affect her customer base? Maybe this information will be useful to her.

I think this topic has hovered on the edge of "flame war" status (it could easily go there and almost has several times), but it's avoided it so far, and has been pretty respectful. Mostly.

 

[Afreet]

I just thought it was a pretty interesting thread and didn't take any of it personally. I was just noticing how many responses there were so it must be a topic that is interesting to people. I had also thought, for no moral or ethical reasons particularly, that their teaming up with Egglands was sort of "unusual". If it was cereal or even better peanut butter I guess I would have laughed and said that that works. I have enjoyed this thread with all the different points of view.

Me too! Enjoyable to see all the responses and points of view, a little astonished at the number of views and responses (!!). I'm pretty sure the OP didn't think this thread would become so popular/notorious. In total agreement about the baffling association with eggs. Why not chickpeas? Why not oatmeal?

 

[Fit_mommy]

I certainly was NOT referring to a discussion of vegan ethics as mean-spirited. I was simply referring to the fact that I feel that perhaps the OP's concerns would have been better off being aired in a private email to SNM/Cathe or in another fitness/nutrtion forum. Anywhere other then THIS forum. I just don't think this was the place for it. To me, it just came across as ridiculing and judgmental of Cathe.

Vegans/vegetarians don't want to be ridiculed/attacked for their beliefs (and I agree that they shouldn't be) but then what makes it okay to ridicule Cathe this way???

Again, I mean no disrespect to ANYONE here. Just airing my feelings/thoughts like everyone else has been doing....

 

[pixiesis]

I admire Cathe very much, and don't think I've attacked or ridiculed her. At least, I wouldn't want to ever do that. I am disappointed in this decision and felt it was appropriate to say so. It's important to me to be true to myself in regards to this issue.

Amy

 

[sparrow13]

Wendy, I get what you are saying. I don't think anyone was looking to ridicule Cathe though. I too will most likely not purchase any more but that does not mean I have lost respect for Cathe and her superior knowledge of fitness. I will always be grateful to Cathe for introducing me to fantastically challenging workouts and letting me see that women too, can lift heavy. I will absolutely continue to recommend her to other women. I totally respect her right to run her life and business as she sees fits. It just so happens that I don't care to support Eggland's Best in any form, and that is where I get off the Cathe path. With no bitter feelings, I might add.

Sparrow