working shoulders harder

[michefit]

I can't seem to get any DOMS or strength gains in the shoulders. Using only one Cathe workout for shoulders does not seem to be cutting it (okay pun intended) Does anyone have a killer DVD combo for working the shoulders? I don't have SH, PH or the CXT series. Thanks in advance!

 

[kathryn]

DOMS is not necessary to gain strength or size (and in fact, having DOMS all the time can be a sign that your body is not getting enough time to repair), so don't worry about not getting it.

As for not gaining strength, I don't know what your workouts are like (how frequently you work shoulders, either directly or indirectly), but here are some things to keep in mind that could help:
1) muscles need recovery to repair and get stronger, and overworking the muscle is counterproductive. Recovery ability is influenced by factors such as age, gender, general stress level, diet, and is somewhat individual. You have to find what works for you best.
2) Keeping the above in mind, also be aware of working shoulders indirectly too much, to impede recovery. Shoulders are also worked when you do chest workouts, somewhat less back workouts. So if you do a back workout one day, chest the next, shoulders the next, you are virtually working the shoulders three days in a row, not allowing for recovery.

Try to space shoulder workouts farther apart if you feel you may be overworking.

For example, when I do GS, I do one upper-body workout on day 1, the leg workout on day 3, and the other upper-body workout on day 5, which leaves 2-3 days between upper body workouts that directly or indirectly hit the shoulder muscles. If I were to do the rotation as some suggest---upper body 1 on day 1, upper body 2 on day 3, lower body on day 5--it would not allow me sufficient recovery.

I know that Cathe has posted a shoulder routine suggestion in Ask Cathe before, you might be able to find that. It started with overhead presses (the move where most people are strongest), then went on to more isolation moves.

Another thing that would be helpful would be to have smaller weight increments to go up. Something like Pace Weights, or magnets you can get at a hardware store (.25 pounds would be nice, but make sure they weigh the same---sometimes they don't), to be able to do what is called "micro-loading" (adding very small, almost unnoticeable, increments of weight every two workouts or so). The shoulders are actually a rather small muscle group, and their strength increases would be smaller than with the chest or back, for example.

HTH!

 

[maddiesmum]

Excellent answer from Kathryn.

I would add that in my experience I usually see greatest gains when I do shoulder presses and/or Arnold's presses. And yes, I always do this move first, never last (as Cathe does on S&H). It is on these two exercises that I see myself going from 10 to 12, to 15 pound dumbells, and greater weight loads. I see only very small increases in weights when doing front raises, side raises or rear delt raises. As Kathryn says, these are small muscles, they will not react in the same way as your quads, for example.

Also, I have been weight training with Cathe for at least 7 years now, and 10 pounds is still the heaviest I can lift on front, side and rear delt raises. It depends on your body type. I don't have the type that builds muscle very easily, maybe you don't either. So, I have learned to be happy with what I can do. I certainly have, despite my apparent limited strength, nicely developed shoulders that balance out my lower body, and that, after all, is one of the reasons to train them with weights.

Clare

 

[michefit]

Thanks Clare and Karthryn your very detailed replies are very helpful. I probably am not giving it enough rest - I seem to feel that if I'm not doing something the muscles are going to go soft. I will try to start with overhead presses before cardio and see if that helps the strength gains. I love Arnold presses - I will try to work these in as well.

 

[maddiesmum]

Remember: you can train shoulders only once per week and still see strength gains. Quality reps rather than quantity.

Clare

 

[bitmover]

Ok, while we're on this topic..... I'd really like to have more shapely shoulders, too, and have had that in mind in the last couple of months workouts, but, much to my horror, I've just noticed that my trapezoid muscles (near my neck -- that's correct, right?) look huge and not so great. Is there a way to work the shoulder without getting the trap so involved? I'm hoping Kathryn or someone else can comment on this.....

ETA: or maybe I'm just lifting too heavy on my back work??

thanks,
-Beth

 

[kathryn]

Another thing I forgot : when doing the heavy work (OH presses), you can often encourage strength gains by putting a longer rest between sets to allow for more recovery, so you can lift heavier for more sets. (I was just sorting through some fitness mags to donate, and came across an item telling about a study where lifters did squats with either a 2-minute or 4-minute break between sets. Both groups had strength gains, but the 4-minute-rest group had slightly better results. Since shoulders are quite a bit smaller than the big leg muscles, they wouldn't necessarily need that much of a break, but if you are a hard gainer/ectomorph, or older, then a longer recovery could be a good idea).

>>I'd really like to have more shapely shoulders, too, and have had that in mind in the last couple of months workouts, but, much to my horror, I've just noticed that my trapezoid muscles (near my neck -- that's correct, right?) look huge and not so great. Is there a way to work the shoulder without getting the trap so involved?

Beth, overhead pressing and shrugging moves both work the traps (trapezius muscles) more than raises, so you might want to concentrate on raises (especially side and rear: I personally limit front raises, as the front delt is well worked during chest work, and most people have a muscular imbalance between front body muscles--stronger and tighter--and posterior muscles--which are weaker and looser).

If you have been doing any shrugs, I'd advise you to stop doing them (they aren't necessary, IMO, and don't have much of a functional use). Also make sure you aren't inadvertently shrugging your shoulders during shoulder moves, which will engage the traps.

 

[bitmover]

Thanks, Kathryn! I obviously need a little anatomy name review, too. I don't do shrugs much, but I suppose I may be doing shrugging inadvertently -- I'll watch for that, and I'll spent more time on raises -- sounds like those are a better bet than overheads -- which I thought would give me the shoulders I want.

thanks again!!

-Beth